What size Danforth anchor will fit in the hanger? I have an 8-pound.
Will a larger one fit?
Rod Ellner
Most people are using the 13-pound "Danforth" style anchor (and what
GB uses). That is a steel anchor. A lighter Fortress aluminum can
be used but they are pricey. 13 pounds seems the right size for the
boat (BUT NOT STORM SIZE). With 20 feet of 1/4 inch chain will bring
the system weight into the 20-pound area. These anchors work best in
mud bottoms; for almost anything else you want a second type of anchor
on the boat.
Bring a tape measure to the boat store to measure the shaft and the
blades. The bow pulpit has changed often and every "Danforth" style
is different.
MJM
My 1976 Rhodes 22 didn't come with the built-in anchor locker. After
seeing the GBI factory set-up at boat shows, I never retrofitted it.
In my opinion, it's the most un-seaworthy feature on the whole boat.
We frequently sail in pretty rough conditions on the Great Lakes.
Who wants an anchor rode hawse pipe up on the bow leading down to a
drawer that doesn't have a drain and overflows on top of the V-berth?
Also, the geometry looked wrong for smooth anchor rode storage.
Anchor rode lockers are usually deep, not shallow like the GBI drawer.
I'm hoping that someday, GBI will upgrade the design to a proper
foredeck anchor locker that drains overboard & has a solid opening
hatch up on the foredeck which can be securely locked shut.
Unfortunately, this is not the sort of project the average Rhodes 22
owner can tackle. There's a lot of critical structure & other gear
built into the bow. You can't simply cut it away & glass in an
anchor locker.
Anyway, for the moment, we're stuck with what we have. It turns out
that a low profile 5 gal bucket will fit nicely under the cockpit
seats. I carry 150 feet of 3/8" 3-strand + 30 feet of anchor chain +
shackle in the bucket. Around the bottom of the bucket, equally
spaced at 120 deg intervals, drill three ½" drain holes thru the
side. About 4" above one of the holes, drill another ½" hole. This
is the "rope keeper" hole. Thread about 6" of the end of the anchor
rode thru the drain hole & back up into the rope keeper hole. When
you go to use the bucket of rope, you will be able to pull anchor
rode out of the drain hole and cleat it off before you even begin
deploying anchor rode. This precludes losing the anchor rode and/or
rope bucket overboard. My primary anchor is a Fortress FX-7, stored
in a holder up on the bow pulpit. I carry my other anchors & rode in
the lazarette compartment.
My bow is a pretty crowded place with the roller furler & its
associated control line, mooring cleats, chocks, downhaul for the
cruising spinnaker, downhaul for the spinnaker snuffer sock, and
storage cleat for the outboard end of the spinnaker pole. I always
figured an anchor roller on top of all the other gear would be a bit
much. You'd also have to install it off center, which would look
pretty ugly.
Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
New Song is still a yard ornament -- a very nice one, but still a
yard ornament. My dealer has my Yamaha high thrust tiller model in.
Hope to pick it up next week. My dealer is two hours away. We'll be
sailing soon, now.
I'm having trouble figuring how to deal with rode. The little hole
over the rode box is a pain to stuff the rode into. And it bunches
up right under the hole even though there appears to be plenty of
room in the box. I'm glad to give up the bunk space right up against
the bow. The box doesn't fit, except on its rack and I don't want to
drop wet rode on the bunk cushions.
I'm using 200 feet of 3/8-inch New England three-strand nylon line
and 22 feet of 3/16- inch PC chain. I think the Danforth type anchor
that came with the boat is 13 pounds.
Right now, the rode is in a five-gallon bucket. If I stay with that,
I would expect to deploy it from the cockpit.
What solutions are other people using? I'd certainly like to hear
from you.
Also, is anyone using an anchor roller? What kind?
Thanks.
John Ward
S/V New Song
Fountaintown, IN (near Indianapolis)
Line: 3/8" New England Premium 3-Strand-- it has 4000 pound breaking
load. Good stretch. Top Pick of PS for chafe resistance.
Chain: ¼" Hot dip galvanized proof coil (high strength if you want
some more weight), as long as possible to keep the set-up under 35
pounds (about 22-30 feet); the chain is really needed for chafe on
the bottom, but the weight helps.
Shackles: 3/8", and a 3/8" swivel between chain and rode; galvanized
thimble on the rode. Seize the shackle pins with monel wire to
prevent corrosion.
Anchor: Bruce clone, 11.5-pounds, with 22 ft. of chain on 250 ft. of
3/8" rode, under the seat in a Rubber Maid container. I keep the
13-pound Danforth on the bow, for mud. This year I think I will pick
up a 16-pound Bruce clone for storm use and move it and the Danforth
into the lazarette.
This set-up held my boat in 35-45 knot winds, sand bottom, about
15 feet of water. Out of 10-12 boats in the storm hole, 5 were on the
beach in the morning, but not me. I was impressed.
MJM
Which Bruce clone do you have?
Bill Effros
I got the Bruce on the boat last year, used it about 6 times. Five
were short stays, not very demanding. No problems setting or
breaking it out.
The one that really got my attention was anchoring in the sand hole
off of Port Jefferson. There were about a dozen (maybe 18) boats in
the area. The wind started to kick up to 35+ knots plus, by the time
morning came there were about 6 boats beached from anchors dragging
and a few others moved around (including one inside my swing). We
were fine. Even though we were OK, it was about the limit for the
anchor from the tables (rated about 42+- knots). I wanted the next
size up.
MJM
Why did you go with 3/8 line instead of ½-inch?
Steve
½-inch is too much for the boat. Believe it or not, using too heavy
a rode is worse. One purpose of the rode is to stretch to absorb the
shock load (gusts, waves etc.); helps to keep the anchor set and the
cleats on the boat. A lot of this came straight out of Chapman.
Besides, it is cheaper and easier to use. I am using the Spade for
a storm anchor, building the system to deal with a 1000-pound working
load (highest number I’ve seen for a 22 foot boat in a storm is 900
pounds).
The New England 3/8-inch line has a rating of 1100 pounds working and
4400 breaking, 7/16 is the highest I would go and I think that might
be too much (but I might have used it here because of the "storm
anchor" statement), ½-inch is really too much.
And for the record, the shackles are wired. Now the bitter end is a
different story.
MJM
30 Mar 1999
I like my gallon jug and clothesbasket setup. The clothesbasket is
good because all the holes allow the rode to dry out.
Steve
I was looking at WM the other day and for a hard bottom, I kind of
liked the CQR myself. Ever had any problems with it? I think for
the lake I am in that I would be better off with a Bruce for heavy
weather since it’s more round. The bottom is basically mud, a little
gravel, and very little rock. However for a hard rock bottom, I
think the CQR would do a lot better; that point should drive right
in. What kind of anchor setup are you using with the CQR; rode
length, chain length?
Steve Little
I use 25' of 5/16-inch chain with a 7:1 scope for Lake Michigan, and
I usually carry 150 feet of rode. (I've sailed and anchored also in
the North Channel and Lake Superior, but that's is not very frequent.)
The "CQR" is really a CQR "type" that I purchased 30 years ago from a
West Marine operating from a garage in Chicago -- no lie -- and which
may be the progenitor of the chain. (If not, I don't quite know what
the deal was, except that I'm pretty sure it was legal.
Maybe some older Chicagoans remember this outfit that preceded Port
Supply?) At any rate, it digs in fine and has never dragged. When
setting it, I back down until it seems to be holding well. To raise
it, I usually power up on it while pulling in line via the primary
winch.
There is a real down side to the CQR, and that is storage. Unless
you have a decent bowsprit with a good gammon iron, it is difficult
to stow on a small boat. If in chocks, it's always getting snagged
or being tripped over. Thus, I keep it below or chocked on the
stern -- I have room alongside the lazarette. I usually carry a
small Danforth for emergencies, though I've never needed it. (And,
by the way, the Danforth seems to work well, too, and is less hassle
than the CQR.) I think the Bruce shares some of these same problems.
If I were buying today, I think I'd give the Spade a darn good look
-- it appears easier to store than eiither the plow or the Danforth.
But, most of my summer sailing is out of my home harbor, and there's
little anchoring there. (I really should practice anchoring,
nonetheless.) When cruising, I like riding to the hook.
Jack Harkins
Practical Sailor's Anchor Test
If I understand PS's method, all anchors were pulled in a nearly
straight line, the on-shore winch being only slightly higher than
the shallow water in which the anchors were set. Note that the
tests involved sand, some clean and some with rocks/debris. In
effect, there was no catenary, so their pull tests should have
produced less break-out than one would expect if the pull source
were a boat six fathoms above the anchor. Varying scopes were
measured, though they are not listed in PS's performance table (p.12).
Since most anchors are not the same weight, it probably makes some
sense to test a variety of anchors under the same conditions even
though anchor weight varies. Considering that two "lightweights"
met the 400-pound threshold, and three did not, it seems reasonable
to think that maybe those two would be preferable purchases if they
were to be used in sand bottoms. Why would one purchase an anchor
which breaks free at 270 (test 1) or 200 (test 2) pounds -- and
costs $196 -- when for nearly $50 less one could purchase an anchor
holding to 406 and 320 pounds (tests one and two respectively)?
I carry both the 35 lb CQR and a Danforth lightweight, though I'm
not sure which it is, and it's way too cold to climb into the attic
to find out! I sure like the looks of the Spade, partly because
stowing it would be so easy. But, I want to see more tests in
different kinds of bottoms, and I would certainly like to see what
happens in six feet of water!
Still, most folks buy anchors on the basis of God-knows-what, and
some empirical tests might be helpful, though these may only be the
best currently available.
Jack Harkins
06 Jan 1999
As I understand the Practical Sailor anchor test in the January 1,
1999 issue they attached a 50-foot wire cable directly to the shank
of each anchor, walked the anchors out into shallow water, turned on
an electric winch and measured the holding power.
Their conclusion was that 2 anchors you never heard of before are
better than any anchor you've ever used; and that lightweight anchors
performed particularly badly.
This is troubling for those of us who use lightweight anchors if
their methodology is valid. Is it?
I was taught that lightweight anchors must be pulled into the bottom
horizontally, and that this is achieved by attaching chain to the
rode and allowing enough scope so the angle of pull never exceeds
8 degrees. In the test the first site had an initial scope of 6.5:1
so the angle of pull was always greater than 8 degrees. The second
site had an initial scope of 7:1 -- as soon as the winch was turned
on, the angle of pull exceeded 8 degrees.
Practical Sailor also stated that it was not necessary to use
anchors of equivalent sizes. They tested lightweights as light as
10 pounds against anchors weighing as much as 35 pounds then
concluded that the heavier anchors had more holding power. Duh.?
Wouldn't a 35-pound lightweight style anchor hold better than a
10-pound lightweight style anchor?
If not, why would anyone carry a larger anchor? Am I missing
something here?
Bill Effros
If anyone is interested, here is the URL for the Spade Anchor,
http://mars.rever.fr/spade
I might be ordering one
MJM
This is part of an email I got about the Spade anchor:
MJM
"When reading PS test results you have to realize that the 1,000 lbs
achieved by the SPADE anchor is only the limit of the PS measuring
equipment. During tests done by the French Ministry of Transports,
a small, 6 lb aluminum anchor held up to 2000 lbs, which was also
the limit of the pulling engine.
During ENIM tests, a small 6 lbs steel prototype bent its shank
without releasing its holding at about 3,000 lbs (equivalent to a
44' boat with 50 knots of wind).
1. Yes you can dissemble the shank from the fluke only with removing
a simple bolt.
2. For your 22'/4000 lbs boat our model 60 is big enough.
3. If you supply us with your postal address, I will send you a
complete file and also a drawing of the model 60.
4. Yes, starting with the model 80 and bigger, the shank is hollow,
in order to keep the best mechanical resistance with the lightest
shank weight and to have the heaviest anchor tip. As you already
realize, we didn't intend to manufacture a cheap anchor, but (at a
reasonable price) to obtain the best possible results.
5. Cost of model 60 is US $258 in steel and $281 in aluminum with
the same outstanding holding power. Shipping is for the steel model
is $57 by surface and $120 by air parcel. For the aluminum model:
$33 by surface and $64 by air.
6. You can pay either by bank transfer, US check in US $ or by
VISA or Mastercard."
Thanks very much for your thoughts on the Spade. Actually, the model
60 Spades are almost exactly the same dimensions as the 22lb Delta.
The big difference in 'stowability' is that the Spade breaks down and
the Delta doesn't. The Delta would fit in my Cockpit locker, but
getting it in and out thru the opening would be a pain. I went ahead
and got a Steel model 60 Spade from West Marine this past week.
I figured that even though the holding power is supposed to be the
same whether steel or Aluminum, the steel one might set a little
faster just due to sheer weight. I plan to put it on 20' of 1/4 chain
and 250' of 3/8 New England 3 strand. Thanks again for the
recommendation...
Brian
03 Feb 2001
This is just my opinion but I would not secure the rode to the boat.
If worry about lousing the rig, put a jug on the end so if you need
to go quick, you can come back for the anchor later. I have set an
anchor in storm condition many times. Usually in a crowed anchorage.
One night while the wind was howling about 30 knots, one boat that
was further out in the cove anchor drag, I had anchored in behind due
the so many boats. I was keeping an anchor watch (with compass in
hand) and notice the boat directly ahead of me looked like it was
getting closer. I suited back up, started the motor and brought my
boat a little starboard of my current position. When the boat ahead
of me anchor let loose, I barely had time to release the anchor
& power a little more to starboard to let the other guy slide by.
Since I had a jug tied to my rode, I hollow for Marilyn, and she took
the tiller, and I manage to grab the jug hanging over the bow. Tied
the rode back off & when back to bed. I would have been hit if I
would of had try to cut my 1/2" rode in the dark & would have
definitely lost the anchor.
Steve
16 Feb 2001
Great idea! I was thinking about adding a cleat in the v-berth are,
but I think I like the idea of adding a float to the bitter end
better. It probably could be a small float, too. Small enough to fit
in the bucket with the rode. After all, it only needs to support the
rode, not the anchor or chain. I think I have a small bumper that
would work nicely...
Doug
16 Feb 2001
Good idea about floatation device on end. This may sound stupid but
would a "noodle" for floating swimmers that can be bought at Wal-Mart,
etc. be used? They have a hole running down the middle and one might
be able to fish line thru then curl it around in tray or bucket to
store. Also it would slip thru air scoop to escape with no damage? My
boat has no air scoop for this anchor line pass thru but was just
wondering.
Richard Day
We have about 10' of chain and at least 200' of nylon line on the
anchor. We have not used more than 120' of anchor line on the lake
(20'-30' depth), so I never felt that the 80' or so of extra line
would not allow us some freedom of movement. Now that we are in
costal waters, the depth at anchorages here seems to be more shallow
than Navajo Lake, so I think we still have some flexibility.
Only problem that could occur would be that the other boat who is
dragging an anchor might start the engine and his prop would cut my
anchor line, which is highly improbable and would be the least of my
worries when the murder charges I would be facing come in to play. I
would just shoot the SOB that caused the problem. I think I will keep
the rhode tied off at the end.
Alex
I guess the moral of the story is that if you're sharing an anchorage
with Alex, either raft up or stay FAR away! ;)
I'd been meaning to mention this to Michael since he said that his
anchor and chain were too heavy for his wife to handle easily. A very
experienced sailor on the Trailer Sailor bulletin board has highly
recommended using an anchor float to retrieve the anchor and rode.
It's a float that seems identical to the round orange fenders some
folks here have talked about,about 12-15" in diameter. Attached to it
is a line about 3' long, and attached to the other end of that is a
stainless steel ring about 6" in diameter that snaps open and closed.
When you want to retrieve your anchor, you snap the ss ring around
your rode and motor the boat about 45 degrees off the position of
your anchor. The ring will slide down the rode pulling the float
until it slips over the shank of the anchor, which will then float
free to the surface.
When you haul in the rode you don't have to support the weight of the
anchor because it's already floating at the surface. I
haven't used one of these myself, but this guy swears by it and has
always impressed me as someone who knows what he's talking about.
But anyway, if you have one of these floats you could probably use
the same one to attach to the bitter end of the rode. You'd just have
to be extra careful to secure the bitter end properly when you were
using the float to retrieve the anchor.
Hope this helps!...
Brian
17 Feb 2001
