Can someone tell me the added advantages to having a boom vang? If
we are only cruising, maybe we do not need one. If we were racing,
the pop-top would surely be down; make a regular boom vang system
that attaches to the bottom of the mast. Have a shackle that you
can release from the boom and the bottom of the mast when you want
to cruise with the pop-top up.
Steve
Thanks, I can visualize the setup. I would probably use a mast stop
and the car or a combination if I could find one. I can see how the
lower block could beat the crap out of the hatch cover. May buy or
build a purchase just to see what improvement I can get.
Larry
s/v "Sailsman's Bounty"
Cincinnati
My 1976 Rhodes 22 was delivered with a 4:1 Ronstan boom vang.
The lower end snap-shackles onto a ring on the mast car that the
forward end of the pop-top is attached to. The upper end snap
shackles onto a HD eye strap on the underside of the boom. When the
pop-top is down, there is a hitch pin that goes thru a pair of holes
in the mast slot just above the mast car. This hitch pin is what
holds the mast car down against the tension on the boom vang.
Similarly, when the pop-top is up, there is another pair of holes in
the mast slot for the hitch pin to support the mast car and pop-top
in its raised position. I must remove the boom vang in order to
raise my pop-top, which only takes a few seconds with the snap
shackles. It all works so smoothly, I assumed it was factory stock.
It was only after I read the article in Practical Sailor magazine
last summer that I learned most Rhodes 22’s don’t come with a boom
vang.
The only problem I’ve ever had with this boom vang is under
conditions where the boom is not vanged down tight. Under those
conditions, the lower stainless steel fiddle block tends to flop
around and gouge little chunks of fiberglass out of the front corner
of the pop-top and companionway hatch cover. I fixed this problem by
making little stainless steel sheet metal "bash plates" and gluing
them onto the pop top and hatch cover with 3M 5200 urethane adhesive.
I’ve been sailing with this setup for nearly 10 seasons now.
Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
I've been thinking about how to add a vang and decided maybe a short
loop of cable secured with a pin to keep it in either the "up" or
"down" positions might work. The lower end of the vang would attach
via snap shackle directly to the cable or to a ss ring on the cable.
I would have the cable swaged into a loop.
Another issue is rebuilding the pop-top slider strong enough to take
the vang load. Even if the mast slot is strong enough (and I don't
think it is), the plastic in the slider doesn't look like it could
take the loads.
The cable loop would put the stress toward the front of the mast
rather than on the track slot.
Gary Sanford
The wire vang bail is a good thought, but the trick to a vang is
that the mast pivot point is in alignment with the mast gooseneck,
otherwise it will change the boom plane. The blocks (spring loaded
u-joints) placed on the forward section and along the side, very
close to the mast slot. A wire clamp might be needed at the mast
slot. The force on the side blocks would be great. Through-bolting
them should help, putting some type of stopper (swage/clamp) on the
wire either side of the side blocks should keep the wire in place,
leaving the opening on the blocks facing up should permit the wire
to be free to open the pop-top.
MJM
I've thought of one way to get the boom vang set up with pop-top up.
Why not a bail on the pop-top itself? You would need safety cables
inside the cabin to help support any upward pressure the vang would
produce. The trouble with this might be the near vertical angle this
arrangement might have. BTW, I'm considering safety cables for the
pop-top anyway. I'm thinking of adding latches too.
I had a Chrysler 22 that had safety cables on the pop-top, along
with latches inside to keep things under control in rough seas.
Theory was that large waves could rip the pop-top ass’y right off
the boat, if not secured with cables and latches. Don't know if
there were incidents of boats loosing pop-tops or not but better
safe than sorry.
Alex Bell
I have not yet added a boom vang to my boat due to questions about a
good way to attach the vang at the base of the mast, so as not to
interfere with the pop-top attachment to the mast. I'd appreciate
ideas in regards to this.
Pamela Vana
I attached my vang to a 6" SS backing plate, the other end of which
is attached to the mast bolt. The whole thing tilts upward on the
side of the mast and out of the way of the pop-top. I also ran the
vang control line back to a cam cleat on the cabin roof aft so I can
control it easily single-handed. To do this I had to remove the cam
cleat that came on the vang block. No big deal.
Peter Douglas
A voice of reason. What you are saying will most likely be added.
But I want it all. You missed my idea of moveable weight in boom
i.e. water or lead to change down pressure or the idea of an inverted
vang, along the line of a gas shock pushing down from above.
MJM
29 May 1998
The inverted system sounds good. Has anyone tried releasing the
traveler to leeward and then sheet down the main when running with
the wind?
Steve
05 Jun 1998
I read and remembered your e-mail from before and I do thank you for
it. The Rhodes would not be what it is without "Thinking outside the
box".
As you can tell, both the weight idea and inverted did not last
long, the ideas do have their problems. I am also not happy putting
it on the pop-top slider. That part and the sail track were not
designed for the amount and the force vector in play, and my 30-watt
solar panel would prefer not to get banged up.
Could the slider be changed? Sure. Could it spread the load on the
sail track? sure. Can it be kept out of the way? Sure. Would it
also be a "more conventional" system? Sure.
And all kidding aside I do thank you.
MJM
02 Jun 1998
P.S. I also would like it thru-bolted to the mast, less chance of
pulling out in heavy weather, but this might lose out to convenience.
To get the pop-top up, the vang bail would have to be removed (and
put somewhere)
I hear what you are saying when you want to thru bolt the lower
attachment point of your boom vang thru the mast. But, consider
that the boom vang setup on my boat, with the boom vang attached to
a ring on the pop-top slider, has been absolutely bullet proof for
at least 10 sailing seasons and I sail my boat pretty hard on the
Great Lakes. The forces involved are directed such that they are
really trying to pull the pop-top mast car out of the mast slot as
opposed to snapping the hitch pin that holds the pop-top down. It's
a simple system that works very well.
Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
There are two issues with the vang and preventer.
The preventer first:
I was always taught/told to stay away from them. It is an easy way to
broach and/or break a boom. The sail needs to move, and it will or
the boat will or the boom will (for the last time). What about a
boom brake? I’ve seen them, like a "governor" that controls how
fast the boom can cross the boat, one line attached on each side of
the boat with a limited-slip block on the boom. The block can be
attached on or near the vang. I like it.
The vang has a few issues: high main/pop-top up, high main/pop-top
down, high main/pop-top back half up, low main/poptop down. After
read this I think I want a string to check locations on the boat.
But the basic thought is a 3:1 system rigged like the main sheet,
through-bolted with a sleeve on the boom and the mast step. Boom
location would be aft of the poptop. I do not think the pop-top
hardware and sail track can handle the forces over the long term.
This only works for a high main/pop-top down scenario - I’m working
on the rest.
MJM
29 May 1998
I've been sailing with a 4:1 Ronstan boom vang on my Rhodes 22 since
1987. I've reprinted my description of it from an earlier letter to
this group. No, I can't use it with the pop-top up. However, my
experience is that the pop-top adds so much windage that you wouldn't
(or shouldn't) sail with it up under any conditions where you would
need to vang down the boom.
The boom vang is used for flattening the main sail shape by holding
down the boom. The traveler can be (should be) used for this
function when sailing close hauled or up to a close reach. But, when
the end of the boom pivots out beyond the end of the traveler bar,
the traveler becomes ineffective at holding down the boom. This is
when you need the boom vang (i.e. for anything further off the wind
than a close reach).
My 1976 Rhodes 22 was delivered with a 4:1 Ronstan boom vang. The
lower end snap-shackles onto a ring on the mast car that the forward
end of the pop-top is attached to. The upper end snap shackles onto
a HD eye strap on the underside of the boom. When the pop-top is
down, there is a hitch pin that goes thru a pair of holes in the mast
slot just above the mast car. This hitch pin is what holds the mast
car down against the tension on the boom vang.
Similarly, when the pop-top is up, there is another pair of holes in
the mast slot for the hitch pin to support the mast car and pop-top
in its raised position. I must remove the boom vang in order to
raise my pop-top, which only takes a few seconds with the snap
shackles. It all works so smoothly, I assumed it was factory stock.
It was only after I read the article in Practical Sailor magazine
last summer that I learned most Rhodes 22's don't come with a boom
vang.
The only problem I've ever had with this boom vang is under
conditions where the boom is not vanged down tight. Under those
conditions, the lower stainless steel fiddle block tends to flop
around and gouge little chunks of fiberglass out of the front corner
of the pop-top and companionway hatch cover. I fixed this problem
by making little stainless steel sheet metal "bash plates" and
gluing them onto the pop-top and hatch cover with 3M 5200 urethane
adhesive. I've been sailing with this setup for nearly 10 seasons
now.
Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
