Your questions sound like what you may really want is a whisker pole &
a cruising spinnaker. My whisker pole is a Forespar model # HD 6-12
DL aluminum with type SL fittings on both ends. Don't get anything
lighter duty than the HD 6-12 DL or your genoa will fold it in half!
I use my whisker pole in the following situations:
1. To stabilize the genoa on a light air reach or run. In light air,
it's also helpful to snap the spinnaker pole topping lift onto the
outboard fitting of the whisker pole. Supporting the weight of the
pole & sail with the topping lift helps keeps the sail from slatting
around & keeps it in a more aerodynamic shape.
2. I also have a cruising spinnaker. My whisker pole extends out to
138 inches, which is considerably longer than my PHRF legal 106 inch
spinnaker pole. The cruising spinnaker just plain flies better with
the longer pole.
3. The lazy man's way to sail downwind is to strike the mainsail,
pole out the cruising spinnaker with the whisker pole on one side of
the boat & pole out the genoa on the other side of the boat with the
spinnaker pole. This rig has the ultimate in lee helm, the sail area
is nearly that of the tri-radial spinnaker, & it is completely self
steering downwind. However, because both sails are well controlled,
it does not require the constant attention which a tri-radial
spinnaker demands.
4. To pole out the genoa when sailing wing-on-wing downwind. Poling
out the genoa when sailing wing-on-wing helps stabilize the sail &
allows a broader margin of error for sailing by the lee without
backwinding the genoa. (In this case, much preferable to sailing by
the lee of the mainsail & possibly causing an unexpected gybe!)
Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
13 Sep 1999
We use a whisker pole that looks like it was made by the previous
owner from two stock pole ends pop riveted to an aluminum tube that
looks like the same stock as the OEM genoa furler tube. It works
perfectly. There is a reasonable picture of it on the photo site:
http://pathfind.net/rhodes22/pics/nell_robin.jpg
To answer your question: Yes, the pole must typically pass between
the upper and forward lower shrouds. The most important trim is the
genoa sheet. If the sheet is neither too tight nor too loose, you
won't have any trouble with the pole on the shrouds. Also, this
particular aluminum tube is fairly heavy. It isn't very large
diameter, but the walls seem thick.
The biggest problem with a furler is where to store it. I also use it
for the spinnaker, and I have a topping lift attached to one end. So,
I usually just store it vertically along the mast, held upright by
the topping lift with the bottom end still attached to the pad-eye.
I'd like to have a pole clip, however. That would allow me to use a
proper topping lift setup for
the pole with the topping lift affixed to the middle of a line
running the length of the pole.
I'm not sure this really answered your questions, but Yes, you can
use a pole on the R22.
Doug Gardner
s/v Fretnaught
17 Feb 2001
I looked at a boat recently that had the pole stored on the mast. The
track allowed the padeye to move up, and the outboard end was down in
the clip. The idea being that if the clip fails to hold the pole, it
doesn't drop down on the deck ala kaboom style. Seemed like a neat
setup. BTW, we do not have a pole and it's on the shopping list. The
6/12 unit that Roger has would work fine for us. I think it would
store under the cockit seats in clips hanging down from seat. Out of
the way, but easily accessable. We have a boat hook stored that way
now.
Just another week till sailing season starts here. I think!
Alex
If you look on the photo web site under the "Friends" page, there is
a picture of my family on board Dynamic Equilibrium at home alongside
our dock on Sanford Lake. If you look closely at the foredeck in that
picture, you will see how I currently stow my spinnaker pole &
whisker pole. In that same picture, about halfway up on the front of
the mast, you can see a fixed permanently mounted stainless steel
spinnaker pole ring.
At one time I used to stow the two poles vertically with one end
clipped onto the upper pole ring & the lower end clipped onto the
lower pole ring. The upper pole ring is located up the mast such that
when the lower pole ring is slid down to the bottom of its track, the
distance between the two spinnaker pole rings is correct for my 106
inch spinnaker pole. The whisker pole is, of course, adjustable for
the distance as well. Both my spinnaker pole & whisker pole have
sufficiently long trip lines so it's possible to open the upper jaw
on the end fitting while standing on deck.
Sometimes, at a dock or at anchor, I still stow the two poles up the
mast in order to clear off the foredeck for more living space &
reduced trip hazards. However, I don't sail with them stowed like
that anymore. I found they added considerable heeling moment &
windage up there. In addition, I found they tended to snag sheets &
halyards at very inopportune moments. From a racer's perspective, up
the mast wasn't a very fast or efficient storage location either. It
was slower to get the spinnaker pole rigged & set-up from the up-the-mast
storage position.
Also on the photo web site under the "Technical Details" page is a
close-up photo of Dynamic Equilibrium's bow which clearly shows the
end of the spinnaker pole clipped into its chock near the bow.
I like having the spinnaker pole & whisker pole clipped securely on
the foredeck. They're down low for minimal heeling moment, windage, &
nonsnagging. In foul weather they provide a large diameter secure
handhold if you have to work on the foredeck. Stowed in this manner,
the poles are in an almost ideal position for quick deployment at the
beginning of & stowage at the end of the downwind leg while racing.
You can leave the topping lift & downhaul attached to the stowed
spinnaker pole on the upwind leg without causing a serious problem for
tacking the genoa.
I'm intrigued at the idea of stowing the whisker pole clipped under
the cockpit seat. I shall have to seriously look at that concept this
spring when I get the boat out of storage.
In my experience, there is a very narrow window in terms of apparent
wind angle & wind strength where it is desireable to rig the whisker
pole in between the forward lower sidestay & the upper sidestay. When
it must be done, of course one must be careful not to cause the
whisker pole to bear up against either sidestay. The analogous
situation is frequently encountered with the spinnaker pole up
against the forestay when sailing a reach with a tri-radial spinnaker.
Spinnaker poles & whisker poles are not designed to be point loaded
from the side & it is possible to fold them in half by
slamming them hard into a stay. I will say it takes a pretty hard hit
as these poles are not fragile by any means. But, the system is not
idiot proof.
Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
18 Feb 2001
If I had the choice, I would store it under the cockpit seat.
Unfortunately, my pole is homemade and does not telescope. The upside
of that is that the tubing is considerably heavier than that normally
found in telescoping poles. Certainly, the genoa in a stiff breeze
could develop enough force to fold it, but that is not really a
common concern for me. With due diligence, it is relatively safe
between the shrouds.
However, I NEVER rig it that way with the spinnaker! The genoa is
quite stable with the pole set, but the spinnaker is not. Accordingly,
the spinnaker is always set with the pole forward of the forward
lower shroud.
I also considered storing the pole on the foredeck like yours.
Because I don't race and am never in a hurry to set or stow the pole,
I decided I wanted to be able to keep the deck clear. If I'm in a
hurry to douse the thing, the fastest place to put the pole is to
stuff it below, anyhow. I haven't noticed any appreciable windage
from the pole stored vertically. Keep in mind, however, that I
already have the IMF mast. By comparison, a single pole doesn't add
much.
Thanks for the info,
Doug
Yes, we just have one padeye on the mast. I thought about a track,
but figured I'd try it the cheap way, first. Works fine. The topping
lift for the pole is mounted just below the steaming light with a
cheek block, about halfway up the mast on our 1986. The topping lift
is only used with the spinnaker. When setting the pole with the genoa,
I turn the pole around so that the end with the topping lift attached
is inboard.
I use the second masthead pully for the spinnaker halyard.
You can see the topping lift in the two pictures of our spinnaker at
the top of the main page of the picture site.
http://pathfind.net/rhodes22/
Doug
18 Feb 2001
I've read a few recent discussions in regards to headsails. The 175%
genoa is good sometimes, but definitely seems too heavy in light airs.
This spring was very windy and gusty around here, so I spent my
first 6 weeks sailing with a partially furled headsail of poor shape.
I celebrated when able to sail the full 175 at a "comfortable" 6k.
There does seem to be a narrow window of conditions where the 175 is
"just right". I too am leery of sailing a spinnaker single-handed.
Has anyone tried a whisker pole while sailing the full 175 in light
airs? If so, what size pole is needed?
Pamela Vana
To those of you that use a whisker pole or a spinnaker pole where do
you store it? If on deck, how and where? I currently store it one end
attached to the lower mast ring and the other to the stern pulpit but
this has got its obvious drawbacks. I've got some thoughts on other
methods but would like to hear some other suggestions.
Ralph
I haven't tried a whisker pole yet on the Rhodes, but used one on my
last boat, a Newport 17 with great results. The major catalogs, West
Marine, Boat/US, Defender have tables for pole length. It depends on
"J" dimension (headstay to mast) and jib size. For a boat the size
of the Rhodes, the Heavy Duty Forespar seems the right model,
probably the 6-12-ft twist lock. They are expensive, $200+.
Any one have any good ideas on storing it on the Rhodes?
Dave Walker
The two snuffer sock control blocks (SSCB) in the picture are secured to the bow pulpit & side
rail using Helm 1" rail clamps. The rest of the control line routing back to the cockpit is
handled by the same bullseye fairleads & 1" Helm rail clamps at each stanchion & the same
Harken 238 bullseye + Cam-Matic cleat on a common SS plate combo as I used for the roller
furling control line. Note that I actually have two complete control line routing systems
run along the toe rails back to the cockpit on each side of the boat for a total of four.
The top control line on the port side is for adjusting luff tension on the cruising spinnaker.
The bottom port side control line is for the roller furling. The top control line on the
starboard side is the snuffer sock uphaul control line. The bottom control line on the
starboard side is the snuffer sock downhaul - the two SSCB's in the detail bow shot are part
of the snuffer sock downhaul rigging.
In the detailed bow shot picture, note the position of the SSCB out on the bow pulpit. This
position provides the best possible geometry for starting the snuffer sock back down the
spinnaker when the big chute is fully inflated. Getting the snuffer sock started back down
the spinnaker is the most critical element of snuffer sock operation.
We thread the control lines thru all the SSCB's & bullseye fairleads whenever we want to fly
the spinnaker. This is usually done before we leave the dock. You're right, this would
probably be a good application for snatch blocks, but I don't have them. The spinnaker
inside the snuffer sock looks like a long sausage. The spinnaker can be rigged to the
spinnaker pole & dropped on deck in between downwind runs without interference with the
genoa. The spinnaker halyard is used to raise the snuffer sock with the spinnaker still
inside of it. Then, the snuffer sock uphaul control line is used to raise the sock & allow
the spinnaker to inflate. Takedown involves using the spinnaker sock downhaul control line
to pull the sock down over the spinnaker. After that, the sock can be left raised & secured
to the mast with a sail tie or the sock can be dropped on deck using the spinnaker halyard.
The spinnaker is stored inside the sock. The spinnaker, snuffer sock, + all the sheets &
control lines are neatly coiled up & fit nicely inside the same spinnaker sail bag that the
spinnaker originally came in. Note that having the spinnaker inside of the snuffer sock makes
packing the big sail away inside the sailbag much easier & almost idiot proof.
I can fly the tri-radial spinnaker single handed. Consider that in the picture of Dynamic
Equilibrium on the light air close spinnaker reach, that Daniel & Gary, the two little boys
clustered by the cabin, were only 6 & 3 years old respectively at the time.
Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
12 Jan 2002
Mary Lou and I are adding a whisker pole to Fretless and have several
questions for the metallurgists and Rhodes 22 users with the 175%
Genny. We have purchased the recommended Forespar HD6'-12' pole. We
intend to connect it to the mast using an aluminum 2 foot long, 1"
T-track. Here are the questions.
- 1. How far from the bottom of the mast should the lower end of the
track start?
- 2. What type of screws do we use to attach the aluminum track to the
aluminum mast. Stainless? If so what about corrosion?
- 3. Length and diameter of said screws.
- 4. Any ideas on protecting the mast head light wire which runs through
the front mast channel from shorting out on the screw tips?
Any other helpful suggestions appreciated.
Fred Kaiser
Rhodes 22 Fretless
Swan Creek MD.
Fort Washington PA
I can answer most of your questions, but I can't offer advice on the exact position to mount
the track. That will really depend on your sail. The objective is for the pole to fly level.
The screws you need are stainless steel flathead 1/4x20 machine screws 1/2" long. The track
is about 1/4" thick and the mast extrusion is probably around 1/8" thick, so the screws will
only protrude 1/8" or so into the mast. While you're at the hardware store make sure you get
the right drill bit and tap for the 1/4x20 screws. The holes will be slightly smaller than
1/4 before you tap them. Use Tef Gel (from www.spursmarine.com) on the threads & underside
of the screw heads to prevent galvanic corrosion. Tef Gel is gooey stuff, so you might want
to keep a little mineral spirits handy for cleanup. Drill & tap the top hole first, then
loosely screw the track to it. The track will hang in position to drill & tap the other
holes precisely using the track itself as a template.
I just did this a couple of weeks ago, so it's all fresh in my mind. My boat isn't a
Rhodes, but I used 6' of silver Schaefer 1" T track w/ end caps, a Schaefer investment
cast slider and a Forespar ADJ 7-17 whisker pole. I put a pair of Forespar stanchion
chocks on the 2 forward stanchions to stow the pole while underway. When in the slip the
pole goes below where it's safe. The lower end of my track is about 8" above the deck. I
have a roller furling 150 & 110, so I wanted as much travel as possible.
bjernigan
18 Mar 2002
1. How far from the bottom of the mast should the lower end of the
track start?
That depends upon if you wish to stow your whisker pole down low by the deck
when you are not using it. Please take a close look at the following two
photos:
http://www.michaelmeltzer.com/rhodes/pics/Family_On_Boat.jpg
http://www.michaelmeltzer.com/rhodes/pics/Roller_Furling.jpg
Note how the two poles are stowed on the foredeck. If you wish to do
likewise, then the bottom of the T-track needs to be 13-1/2" from the base
of the mast & the T-track needs to be at least 36" long. You should
consider using the 1" racing T-track as opposed to the 1" standard T-track
because the adjustment holes are 1-5/16" O.C. in the racing T-track vs. 4"
O.C. in the standard T-track. Please check the FAQ web page for more
details:
If you do not want to stow your pole on the foredeck, like on Dynamic
Equilibrium, then the lower end of your T-track should be at the same height
as your top lifeline.
2. What type of screws do we use to attach the aluminum track to the
aluminum mast. Stainless? If so what about corrosion?
3. Length and diameter of said screws.
4. Any ideas on protecting the mast head light wire which runs through
the front mast channel from shorting out on the screw tips?
Use 1/4-28UNF X 1/2" long, 18/8 stainless steel, flat head machine screws.
Drill & tap the mast for every mounting screw, don't skip any. For
corrosion protection, chafe protection, & bullet proof security; epoxy coat
the back side of the T-track + the machine screws during final assembly.
The screw threads won't protrude far enough thru the mast wall to hurt
anything + the end of the screw will be insulated with epoxy.
Roger K. Pihlaja
18 Mar 2002
I thought about using rivets too. There were reasons I ended up using screws. I'm not
familiar with the kind of rivets Alex mentioned. The rivets would have to be 1/4" to fit
the holes in the track, and it would take a bigger rivet tool than I have to pop 1/4"
stainless rivets. Also, the screw holes in the track are countersunk to fit 1/4" flathead
screws. I don't know how well the rivets would fit the contour of the countersunk holes.
Using the finer threaded 1/4" screws Roger suggested would probably be better than the 1/4x20s
I used, but I had the tap and screws handy already. Even if you use rivets, I'd put Tef
Gel on 'em first. Even drilling, tapping, test fitting & Tef Gelling, the whole job to
install my 6' track took less than an hour. My mast extrusion was plenty thick enough for
the screws to get a good bite. My mast is a few feet taller than a Rhodes mast, but I'd
imagine the extrusions are close to the same thickness. Good luck with your project!
You should be smokin' downwind with that 175 poled out. Are you sure the 12' pole will
be long enough?
bjernigan
19 Mar 2002
