Fw: [Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending & PHRF Rating
Roger Pihlaja
rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
Mon, 26 Aug 2002 06:15:47 -0400
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MessageRazz,
Sorry, I thought I sent this to the list last night, but I only sent it =
to myself!
Roger
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Roger Pihlaja=20
To: Roger Pihlaja=20
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending & PHRF Rating
Razz,
I just looked in the September, 2002 issue of SAIL magazine. The =
magazine is running a special article on the America's Cup this month & =
there is a picture of practically every boat which is entered. Those =
mainsails sure don't look loose footed to me. There's a very good =
close-up of the boom & mainsail on Dennis Conner's boat, the Stars & =
Stripes, on page 82. You can clearly see the collapsed mainsail shelf =
running along the top of the boom as the sail is sheeted in tightly for =
a close hauled point of sail. The end of the mainsail's shelf is right =
behind the helmsman's head. All the America's Cup boats this year =
appear to be using mainsails with 6 - 9 full length battens though.
Enclosed is a FAQ page from NORTH Sails. As long as the sail is =
constructed with modern low stretch/high modulus fabrics, NORTH Sails is =
recommending loose footed mainsails for cruising as well. =20
I guess I stand corrected on loose footed mainsails. When the time =
comes to replace the mainsail on Dynamic Equilibrium, I will have to =
inquire about this.
Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
=20
=20
Cruising HOME
4800 Series
Premium NorDac=20
Soft NorLam=20
Spectra
Furling Genoas
G-Series
Marathon 3DL
Solutions for
Sailors=20
Racing Products
Request a Quote=20
=20
Submitted on October 1, 2001 by Wesley Bachman=20
Question: What is the advantage or disadvantage of a loose footed =
main sail?
Answer: North Sails favors loose footed mainsails for most of our =
cruising customers. The loose foot allows the sailor to adjust the shape =
of the lower 20% of the mainsail by easing the outhaul to add depth to =
the sail or pulling the outhaul very hard to flatten out the lower =
section of the sail.=20
The alternative to a loose foot arrangement is to equip the sail =
with slides along the foot, which hold the fabric on the boom. The =
slides don't add to the strength or durability of the sail. On the =
contrary, the slide attachment points tend to add to the cost of =
maintaining the sail. The sail fabric is more highly loaded in the area =
of each attachment and as the fabric degrades with use and UV exposure, =
the sail is more likely to rip at any attachment point that is slightly =
more loaded than it was designed for.=20
Race mainsails are often constructed with a lens shaped panel of =
lighter weight fabric connecting the straight foot of the sail with the =
boom. This arrangement is called a shelf-foot. It is meant to act as an =
endplate on the mainsail when the boat is on downwind angles. The =
shelf-foot is typically attached with a continuous rope in the groove on =
the top of the boom. When sailing upwind the outhaul is pulled tight and =
the shelf-foot collapses. The contribution to performance from the shelf =
is negligable.=20
There are some practical advantages to a loose foot. During =
installation of the sail, the sail battens can be loaded on the dock, =
the sail flaked and tied and then loaded directly onto the top of the =
boom. This works especially well if you have lazy jacks. When it is time =
to remove the sail, it can be flaked on the boom, bundled with sailties =
that are run around the sail but over the boom and then lifted off. =
Reefing lines can be deadended on the boom without concern for ripping a =
slide off the foot of the sail if the line is tied in the wrong place.=20
In short, with modern, low stretch sail fabrics, slides or other =
attachment points along the boom do not offer any advantages.=20
Email North Sails with your question today!
Go BACK to Solutions for Sailors Main Page.
=20
=20
=A9 Copyright 2001 North Sails, Inc. All rights reserved.
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Roger Pihlaja=20
To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 5:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending & PHRF Rating
Since when?
----- Original Message -----=20
From: David Rasberry=20
To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 2:15 AM
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending & PHRF Rating
IACC class (America's Cup) boats have loose footed mains.
Razz
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-admin@rhodes22.org =
[mailto:rhodes22-list-admin@rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 7:01 PM
To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending & PHRF Rating
Richard,
Bullshit! To the best of my knowledge, there isn't a single =
performance oriented sailboat racing class that prefers to use loose =
footed mainsails. I don't know why Doyle has made this marketing =
decision. Fortunately, there are plenty of other choices of sailmakers =
& I would run, not walk, away from this idiot at Doyle.
Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic eQuilibrium
----- Original Message -----=20
From: R.G. Smith=20
To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 2:46 PM
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending & PHRF Rating
The mainsail on my boat is pretty much shot also. My boat is a =
re-mfg 1990 and I insisted on the old style spars (non IMF) and the sail =
I have is all that Stan had. I got in touch with Doyle regarding a new =
main the sail they suggust has 2 full length battens at the head and 2 =
partial battens towards the foot.
The sail they quoted was also loose footed! When I expressed =
surprise I was told that (Doyle) was no longer building mains with bolt =
ropes along the foot. There contention is that a loose footed sail =
set's better and last longer.
Richard Smith
=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Razz,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sorry, I thought I sent this to the =
list last=20
night, but I only sent it to myself!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Roger</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcen09402@centurytel.net =
href=3D"mailto:cen09402@centurytel.net">Roger=20
Pihlaja</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dcen09402@centurytel.net=20
href=3D"mailto:cen09402@centurytel.net">Roger Pihlaja</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 25, 2002 6:10 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending & PHRF=20
Rating</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Razz,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I just looked in the September, 2002 =
issue of=20
<U>SAIL</U> magazine. The magazine is running a special =
article on=20
the America's Cup this month & there is a picture of =
practically every=20
boat which is entered. Those mainsails sure don't look loose =
footed to=20
me. There's a very good close-up of the boom & mainsail =
on Dennis=20
Conner's boat, the Stars & Stripes, on page 82. You can =
clearly=20
see the collapsed mainsail shelf running along the top of the boom =
as the=20
sail is sheeted in tightly for a close hauled point of sail. The =
end of=20
the mainsail's shelf is right behind the helmsman's head. All the=20
America's Cup boats this year appear to be using mainsails =
with 6 - 9=20
full length battens though.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Enclosed is a FAQ page from NORTH =
Sails. As=20
long as the sail is constructed with modern low stretch/high=20
modulus fabrics, NORTH Sails is recommending loose footed mainsails =
for=20
cruising as well. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I guess I stand corrected on loose =
footed=20
mainsails. When the time comes to replace the mainsail on Dynamic=20
Equilibrium, I will have to inquire about this.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Roger Pihlaja</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>S/V Dynamic =
Equilibrium</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
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class=3DfourteenpointhelveticaRED><SPAN=20
class=3DfourteenpointhelveticaRED><B><SPAN=20
class=3Dtwelvepointnavybold>Submitted on October 1, 2001 by Wesley =
Bachman=20
</SPAN><BR><BR>Question:</B></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3Dtwelvepointhelvetica> </SPAN><SPAN =
class=3Dtwelvepointhelvetica>What=20
is the advantage or disadvantage of a loose footed main =
sail?</SPAN></P>
<P class=3Dbody_copy><SPAN=20
class=3DfourteenpointhelveticaRED><B>Answer</B></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3DfourteenpointhelveticaRED><SPAN=20
class=3DfourteenpointhelveticaRED><B>:</B></SPAN></SPAN> <SPAN=20
class=3Dtwelvepointhelvetica></SPAN><SPAN class=3Dtwelve><B>North =
Sails favors=20
loose footed mainsails for most of our cruising customers.</B> The =
loose=20
foot allows the sailor to adjust the shape of the lower 20% of the =
mainsail by easing the outhaul to add depth to the sail or pulling =
the=20
outhaul very hard to flatten out the lower section of the sail.=20
</SPAN></P>
<P class=3Dbody_copy><SPAN class=3Dtwelve>The alternative to a =
loose foot=20
arrangement is to equip the sail with slides along the foot, which =
hold=20
the fabric on the boom. The slides don't add to the strength or =
durability=20
of the sail. On the contrary, the slide attachment points tend to =
add to=20
the cost of maintaining the sail. The sail fabric is more highly =
loaded in=20
the area of each attachment and as the fabric degrades with use =
and UV=20
exposure, the sail is more likely to rip at any attachment point =
that is=20
slightly more loaded than it was designed for. </SPAN></P>
<P class=3Dbody_copy><SPAN class=3Dtwelve>Race mainsails are often =
constructed=20
with a lens shaped panel of lighter weight fabric connecting the =
straight=20
foot of the sail with the boom. This arrangement is called a =
shelf-foot.=20
It is meant to act as an endplate on the mainsail when the boat is =
on=20
downwind angles. The shelf-foot is typically attached with a =
continuous=20
rope in the groove on the top of the boom. When sailing upwind the =
outhaul=20
is pulled tight and the shelf-foot collapses. The contribution to=20
performance from the shelf is negligable. </SPAN></P>
<P class=3Dbody_copy><SPAN class=3Dtwelve>There are some practical =
advantages=20
to a loose foot. During installation of the sail, the sail battens =
can be=20
loaded on the dock, the sail flaked and tied and then loaded =
directly onto=20
the top of the boom. This works especially well if you have lazy =
jacks.=20
When it is time to remove the sail, it can be flaked on the boom, =
bundled=20
with sailties that are run around the sail but over the boom and =
then=20
lifted off. Reefing lines can be deadended on the boom without =
concern for=20
ripping a slide off the foot of the sail if the line is tied in =
the wrong=20
place. </SPAN></P>
<P class=3Dbody_copy><SPAN class=3Dtwelve>In short, with modern, =
low stretch=20
sail fabrics, slides or other attachment points along the boom do =
not=20
offer any advantages. </SPAN></P>
<P class=3Dbody_copy><A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:veronica@mktg.northsails.com?subject=3DSolutionsforSailors=
">Email</A>=20
North Sails with your question today!</P>
<P class=3Dbody_copy><A=20
=
href=3D"http://na.northsails.com/Cruising_Sails/SolutionsForSailors.htm">=
Go=20
BACK to Solutions for Sailors Main Page.</A></P>
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<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dcen09402@centurytel.net =
href=3D"mailto:cen09402@centurytel.net">Roger=20
Pihlaja</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 25, 2002 =
5:56=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Rhodes22-list] =
Mast Bending=20
& PHRF Rating</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Since when?</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dcinetics@acsinc.net =
href=3D"mailto:cinetics@acsinc.net">David=20
Rasberry</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 25, 2002 =
2:15=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Rhodes22-list] =
Mast=20
Bending & PHRF Rating</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D930091406-25082002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>IACC class (America's Cup) boats have loose footed=20
mains.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D930091406-25082002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D930091406-25082002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Razz</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list-admin@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list-admin@rhod=
es22.org</A>=20
[mailto:rhodes22-list-admin@rhodes22.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Roger =
Pihlaja<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, August 24, 2002 7:01 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending & PHRF =
Rating<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Richard,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bullshit! To the best of my =
knowledge,=20
there isn't a single performance oriented sailboat =
racing class that=20
prefers to use loose footed mainsails. I don't know why =
Doyle has=20
made this marketing decision. Fortunately, there are plenty =
of other=20
choices of sailmakers & I would run, not walk, away from=20
this idiot at Doyle.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Roger Pihlaja</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>S/V Dynamic =
eQuilibrium</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dsailnut@asan.com =
href=3D"mailto:sailnut@asan.com">R.G. Smith</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, August =
24, 2002=20
2:46 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: =
[Rhodes22-list] Mast=20
Bending & PHRF Rating</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D718413818-24082002>The mainsail on my boat is pretty =
much shot=20
also. My boat is a re-mfg 1990 and I insisted on the =
old=20
style spars (non IMF) and the sail I have is all that =
Stan=20
had. I got in touch with Doyle regarding a new =
main the sail=20
they suggust has 2 full length battens at the head and 2 =
partial=20
battens towards the foot.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D718413818-24082002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D718413818-24082002>The sail they quoted was also loose=20
footed! When I expressed surprise I was told that (Doyle) =
was no=20
longer building mains with bolt ropes along the foot. =
There=20
contention is that a loose footed sail set's better and last=20
longer.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D718413818-24082002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D718413818-24082002>Richard Smith</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma=20
=
size=3D2><BR></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></=
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