[Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm
Steve Alm
rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
Tue, 27 Aug 2002 16:13:30 -0500
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Roger, Joe, Mary Lou, others,
I while back I posted a question regarding my lee helm. I have the IMF
/175. When I=B9m under full sail in light winds, I usually have a lee helm.
Although I agree that this is not a big problem in light air, it still just
doesn=B9t feel right. I tried raking my mast back. Disregarding the advice
to go in half inch increments, I lengthened the forestay about an inch and
three quarters; so much that I can easily see the aft rake of the mast when
I stand at the dock looking at the boat from the side. Amazingly, I notice=
d
little, if any, real change in my helm! I=B9ve experimented with the rudder
rake and concluded that it works best if it=B9s all the way forward. Anythin=
g
else and the helm gets heavy and harder to steer. I=B9ve experimented with
the CB and discovered that if I pull it up to about half, this helps but
then I assume I=B9m losing my course to the lee. For this discussion, I=B9m
referring to sailing upwind.
I=B9ve also been trying to correct the problem with the trim of the sails.
Sometimes I get it right (I=B9ll settle for a neutral helm) but it always
seems to take a lot of tweaking. It=B9s a given that I=B9m not an expert
sailor, but most of the other boats I=B9ve sailed have a natural weather helm
and you have to try hard to create a lee helm. My boat tends to be the
other way around. Under full sail with the IMF/175, the jib is certainly
overpowering the main and this just may be an inherent problem with this
sail configuration and maybe it simply requires all this tweaking to get it
right. Roger, you mentioned leech telltails. Can you tell us more about
this? Exactly where are they positioned and what are they supposed to do o=
r
not do? How about leech telltails on the jib? I have luff yarns on the ji=
b
but if I reef in at all, of course, they=B9re gone.
Slim
S/V Fandango
On 8/27/02 7:12 AM, "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402@centurytel.net> wrote:
> Mary Lou, Joe, Et All,
> =20
> If you are having lee helm with the 175% genoa in light air, then conside=
r
> trying the following before you lengthen the forestay:
> =20
> Slack off slightly on the mainsail's outhaul on the boom. This will incr=
ease
> the fullness or maximum draft in the mainsail's shape. In light air,
> increasing the draft on the mainsail will power it up relative to the gen=
oa,
> which should move the sail plan's center of effort aft & thus decrease yo=
ur
> lee helm. (& make you go faster as well!) The downside is that the new s=
ail
> shape will be less forgiving of sail trimming & helmsman errors. i.e., t=
he
> "groove" will be narrower.
> =20
> +
> =20
> Tighten up the mainsail's leech line. This will cause the mainsail's lee=
ch to
> curve ("hook") to windward. This will cause the mainsail's center of eff=
ort
> to move aft, which will decrease lee helm.
> =20
> +
> =20
> Make certain you are using the main sheet & traveller properly. Watch yo=
ur
> mainsail's leech telltales to be certain you are not overtrimming the
> mainsail, thus causing the airflow to stall. If you stall the airflow ov=
er
> the mainsail, the sail plan's center of effort will move forward & increa=
se
> lee helm.
> =20
> +
> =20
> Make certain you are not overtrimming the genoa. The exhaust airflow com=
ing
> off an overtrimmed genoa will blanket the mainsail & induce the airflow o=
n the
> leeward side of the mainsail to stall. See above bullet point
> =20
> =20
> If these techniques solve your light air lee helm issues; then, it will b=
e
> better than permanently raking the mast further aft, which will increase
> weather helm under all conditions. Remember, these sail shape adjustment=
s are
> subtle & a little bit of sail shape or sail trim change can have a signif=
icant
> effect.
> =20
> Good luck!
> =20
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mary Lou Troy [mailto:mltroy@netreach.net]
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 9:18 PM
> To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm
>=20
>=20
> If you are fighting to keep the boat from falling off the wind you have l=
ee
> helm not weather helm.
>=20
> With the 175 jib, lee helm can be a real issue. It certainly is on
> Fretless. In light to moderate winds when we have the full job and main o=
ut
> we have lee helm that we can only reduce by furling the jib somewhat. In
> very light air, lee helm isn't an issue and we're glad for the 175. We ha=
ve
> tightened the back stay as much as we can with the backstay adjuster. Our
> next step is shorten the backstays one more notch so that we have a bit
> more leverage with the adjuster. We are also going to try setting the
> rudder so that it not quite all the way forward. The next step (next
> season) will be to let the jib stay out a notch. Stan suggested moving th=
e
> knot on the centerboard line to let the board drop a bit further. That
> helped a bit.
>=20
> Any other ideas? We would be happy to hear other suggestions.
>=20
> Mary Lou
> 1991 R22 Fretless
> Swan Creek, MD / Ft. Washington, PA
>=20
>=20
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<FONT FACE=3D"Verdana">Roger, Joe, Mary Lou, others,<BR>
<BR>
I while back I posted a question regarding my lee helm. I have the IM=
F /175. When I’m under full sail in light winds, I usually have =
a lee helm. Although I agree that this is not a big problem in light a=
ir, it still just doesn’t feel right. I tried raking my mast bac=
k. Disregarding the advice to go in half inch increments, I lengthened=
the forestay about an inch and three quarters; so much that I can eas=
ily see the aft rake of the mast when I stand at the dock looking at the boa=
t from the side. Amazingly, I noticed little, if any, real change in m=
y helm! I’ve experimented with the rudder rake and concluded tha=
t it works best if it’s all the way forward. Anything else and t=
he helm gets heavy and harder to steer. I’ve experimented with t=
he CB and discovered that if I pull it up to about half, this helps but then=
I assume I’m losing my course to the lee. For this discussion, =
I’m referring to sailing upwind.<BR>
<BR>
I’ve also been trying to correct the problem with the trim of the sai=
ls. Sometimes I get it right (I’ll settle for a neutral helm) bu=
t it always seems to take a lot of tweaking. It’s a given that I=
’m not an expert sailor, but most of the other boats I’ve sailed=
have a natural weather helm and you have to try hard to create a lee helm. =
My boat tends to be the other way around. Under full sail with t=
he IMF/175, the jib is certainly overpowering the main and this just may be =
an inherent problem with this sail configuration and maybe it simply require=
s all this tweaking to get it right. Roger, you mentioned leech tellta=
ils. Can you tell us more about this? Exactly where are they pos=
itioned and what are they supposed to do or not do? How about leech te=
lltails on the jib? I have luff yarns on the jib but if I reef in at a=
ll, of course, they’re gone.<BR>
<BR>
Slim<BR>
S/V Fandango<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 8/27/02 7:12 AM, "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402@centurytel.net&g=
t; wrote:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Mary Lou, Joe, Et All,=
<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">If you are having lee helm with th=
e 175% genoa in light air, then consider trying the following before you len=
gthen the forestay:<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Slack off slightly on the mainsail=
's outhaul on the boom. This will increase the fullness or maximum dra=
ft in the mainsail's shape. In light air, increasing the draft on the =
mainsail will power it up relative to the genoa, which should move the sail =
plan's center of effort aft & thus decrease your lee helm. (& make y=
ou go faster as well!) The downside is that the new sail shape will be=
less forgiving of sail trimming & helmsman errors. i.e., the &quo=
t;groove" will be narrower.<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"> +<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Tighten up the mainsail's leech li=
ne. This will cause the mainsail's leech to curve ("hook") t=
o windward. This will cause the mainsail's center of effort to move af=
t, which will decrease lee helm.<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"> +<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Make certain you are using the mai=
n sheet & traveller properly. Watch your mainsail's leech telltale=
s to be certain you are not overtrimming the mainsail, thus causing the airf=
low to stall. If you stall the airflow over the mainsail, the sail pla=
n's center of effort will move forward & increase lee helm.<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"> +<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Make certain you are not overtrimm=
ing the genoa. The exhaust airflow coming off an overtrimmed genoa wil=
l blanket the mainsail & induce the airflow on the leeward side of the m=
ainsail to stall. See above bullet point<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"> <BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">If these techniques solve your lig=
ht air lee helm issues; then, it will be better than permanently raking the =
mast further aft, which will increase weather helm under all conditions. &nb=
sp;Remember, these sail shape adjustments are subtle & a little bit of s=
ail shape or sail trim change can have a significant effect.<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Good luck!<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Roger Pihlaja<BR>
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"> <BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Mary Lou Troy [mailto:mltroy@netreach.net]<BR>
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 9:18 PM<BR>
To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org<BR>
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
If you are fighting to keep the boat from falling off the wind you have lee=
<BR>
helm not weather helm.<BR>
<BR>
With the 175 jib, lee helm can be a real issue. It certainly is on <BR>
Fretless. In light to moderate winds when we have the full job and main out=
<BR>
we have lee helm that we can only reduce by furling the jib somewhat. In <B=
R>
very light air, lee helm isn't an issue and we're glad for the 175. We have=
<BR>
tightened the back stay as much as we can with the backstay adjuster. Our <=
BR>
next step is shorten the backstays one more notch so that we have a bit <BR=
>
more leverage with the adjuster. We are also going to try setting the=
<BR>
rudder so that it not quite all the way forward. The next step (next <BR>
season) will be to let the jib stay out a notch. Stan suggested moving the =
<BR>
knot on the centerboard line to let the board drop a bit further. That <BR>
helped a bit.<BR>
<BR>
Any other ideas? We would be happy to hear other suggestions.<BR>
<BR>
Mary Lou<BR>
1991 R22 Fretless<BR>
Swan Creek, MD / Ft. Washington, PA<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><BR>
</FONT>
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