[ham] Re: [Rhodes22-list] Gas vs Liquid Battens

[Michael Meltzer]

all kidding aside, is cute application would be to fill a spinnaker with hydrogen so that it should be ridged enough to hold it
shape and be self flying so it would not collapse in light air.

MJM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronald Lipton" <lipton@sprynet.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 11:05 AM
Subject: [ham] Re: [Rhodes22-list] Gas vs Liquid Battens


> I hadn't thought about CO2 cylinders - that would certainly make it
> easier to achieve reasonable pressures and gas would give you the ability
> to shape larger areas.  Liquid battens would be limited to local stiffening
> by weight considerations. It also depends on the stiffness necessary for the
> sail and the wind pressures - but I would guess that a single CO2 cylinder
> would be fine for moderate pressurized areas.  A 12 gram cylinder will
> provide 150 in^3 at 10 psi.
>
> This can't be too much more complex than swing battens or verical battens.
>
> merry Christmas,
>
> Ron
> (I am at work today with not much happening - plenty of time for idle
> speculation.)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402@centurytel.net>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 4:13 AM
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Gas vs Liquid Battens
>
>
> > Ron,
> >
> > I wouldn't use a compressor to maintain pressure in the gas bladder.  I
> > would use a disposable cylinder of some cheap inert gas like carbon
> dioxide
> > and a pressure regulator to adjust the pressure.  I would think gas
> bladders
> > & the necessary gas distribution channels could be built into the new
> mylar
> > composite sail fabrics relatively easily using various heat sealing
> > techniques.  Heck, you could even have a separate channel & regulator for
> > each bladder so the relative stiffness could be varied over the sail.  The
> > gas bladder itself could have the appropriate shape designed into it and
> > would only assume that shape when inflated.  The sail could have a perfect
> > airfoil shape without any wind in it.  It would also be possible to have
> > more exotic airfoils with more than just the thickness of sailcloth, more
> > akin to airplane wings.  We're not talking about real high gas pressures
> > here, I would think less than 10 psi.  Just remember that liquid water
> > weighs about 1 g/cc whereas water vapor weighs about 0.07 g/cc.  I would
> > think liquid bladders would give you a very heavy sail.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ronald Lipton" <lipton@sprynet.com>
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 4:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Liquid Battens
> >
> >
> > > An air bladder would be hard to keep sufficiently
> > > rigid without a fairly high pressure pump and I
> > > would guess would be harder to engineer into a sail.
> > > Liquid tubing could be much smaller diameter.
> > > One could put a liquid system into pockets without
> > > extensive recutting of standard sails.
> > > The devil would be in the details - how do you keep
> > > air bubbles out, how do you fill and empty the system,
> > > what material do you use for the tubing and how is
> > > it valved?
> > >
> > > The real advantage of the system would be that it would
> > > give "fill the sails" a whole new meaning.
> > >
> > > Ron
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <R22RumRunner@aol.com>
> > > To: <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 2:23 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Liquid Battens
> > >
> > >
> > > > Ron,
> > > > I think water would add weight where you don't want it, but an air
> > bladder
> > > > arrangement might work as well.
> > > >
> > > > Rummy
> > > > _________________________________________________
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> >
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