[Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks

Ware, Joseph W. joseph_ware@merck.com
Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:25:46 -0500


Ah Michael, what you are missing is right now the boat is staying in PA with
me.  I sail on a local lake.  We travel south to the house because we are
refurbishing it for retirement as well as fishing on a stinkpot.  The boat
will go south in 2003 or 2004.  We will still be making the trip until we
retire.  It's not about towing, I have no problem with my durrent truck,
it's about the excessive miles, and when to replace the vehicle.  If I
replace it now, I will get the diesel.  If I run it into the ground, and
purchase a new vehicle closer to when we stop making the trip, it will be
gas.  It's all about when it happens.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Meltzer [mailto:mjm@michaelmeltzer.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 9:02 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks


maybe I am missing something, Why not keep the boat down their?
you should be able to dry store for a few hundred dollar or get a slip. your
milage will be cut in half towing the boat, that alone
should pay for it, not to mention the ware and tare;.

MJM



----- Original Message -----
From: "Ware, Joseph W." <joseph_ware@merck.com>
To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 8:02 AM
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks


> Great discussion, thanks.  I'm from eastern Pennsylvania, and travel 220
> miles each way south to the eastern shore of Virginia every other weekend.
> I will be doing this for another 3-5 years before I finally retire.  There
> in lies my dilemma.  Keep my 1997 Dodge 1500, 5.9L gas truck with 120,000
> miles on it now and add another 80,000 to 100,000.  Or, dump it now and
pick
> up the diesel.  My reason for the diesel is the 80,000 to 100,000 initial
> miles, then the rest of the life of me or the truck after that.  If I stay
> with my current vehicle, I'll need to replace it in the future anyway.  So
> why not now, and get the diesel.
>
> Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rik Sandberg [mailto:racerrik@rea-alp.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 7:01 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
>
>
> Doug,
>
> You are right, out in Ohio where you are the winters are a ton milder than
> here. I don't know where Joe is from though or where he might go, so I
> brought the subject up.
>
> Far as your fuel is concerned, #2 for most of the conditions you will get
> into in Ohio, will work just fine. If you feel you are going to see temps
> under maybe 10 degrees or so, you might think about buying a 50/50 blend
of
> #1 and #2, or you can blend it yourself by just putting half in from each
> respective pump. That's assuming that you buy fuel where they actually
have
> a pump for both grades. If you are looking at temps lower than 5 or 10
below
> 0, I would seriously consider not blending at all and going with straight
#1
> fuel. There is a lot of paraffin in #2 diesel fuel. When it starts getting
> pretty cold this paraffin will start to solidify and separate from the
> liquid. The paraffin solids will plug your fuel filters in short order
once
> they start forming. This is called jelling up. It generally had to be
pretty
> cold for this to happen. Probably below zero if you have pretty good
quality
> fuel. I have seen it happen at about 25 above though if you get a batch of
> crappy fuel. You can probably get into those high cetane winter blend
fuels
> and stuff too if you want to. We have never messed with that stuff though.
I
> don't know exactly what the difference is, but I do know it's generally
> quite a bit more expensive
>
> OK, that's one way to freeze up, but there is also another way. Water in
> your fuel can freeze almost anytime the weather is below freezing and
will,
> especially if you park your vehicle outside and shut it off for a while.
Now
> most people think they get water in their fuel from the fuel station.
Well,
> this is possible, but, most time they actually put the water in the tank
> themselves without realizing it.
>
> What one needs to understand is how condensation can put water in your
fuel.
> Our biggest problem, fuel-wise, in the winter is our heated garage. If a
> driver doesn't top off his fuel tank before parking his truck in the warm
> garage, there will always be water in his fuel tanks. If he does this very
> many times in a row, there will be enough water in the tanks to be picked
up
> with the fuel and make it to the fuel filters, where it WILL eventually
turn
> to ice and freeze the filter shut. I know you probably can't look inside
the
> fuel tank on your pickup, but on my big truck, I can. When these trucks
get
> backed inside our shop on a cold day with a less than full tank, I can
pull
> of the fuel cap and see the frost on the inside of the tank. Sooner or
later
> this frost is going to become water and end up in the bottom of the tank.
>
> So, it is kind of a toss up whether you are better off keeping your truck
> inside so you always start with warm fuel, or keep it outside so you don't
> get condensation in your tank. Given a choice I would pick inside, being
> careful to keep my tanks full as much as possible and also regularly
adding
> some isopropyl alcohol (or similar fuel treatment, I have also used
> methanol) to the tanks to break up the water. Also, in the winter I always
> carry at least one set of fuel filters with me, ALL THE TIME. You'll
usually
> only plug the primary filter, but I've seen both changed before the truck
> would run again.
>
> Keep in mind here, I'm am absolutely NOT a chemist!!! Most of these
lessons
> I have just picked up at the school of hard knocks and frozen toes. Got
the
> poor circulation in my fingers and toes to prove it. :-)
>
> Rik
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gardner, Douglas L. (LNG-DAY)" <douglas.gardner@lexisnexis.com>
> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:08 PM
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
>
>
> > Rik,
> >
> >    I'm certainly not going to disagree with you on anything diesel!
> > Clearly, my truck is more than overkill for the R22.  When I just had
the
> > Rhodes, the motor in my Jeep Cherokee was just fine.  The vehicle was a
> > little light for my taste, but the motor was more than adequate.
> >
> > I also heard about problems with the drive train not being up to the
> diesel.
> > Like, when Dodge first introduced the Cummins as an option, there was a
> > problem with farmers snapping the driveshaft because they were pulling a
> > fully loaded wagon out of a field.  The motor was up to it, but the rest
> > couldn't handle the additional torque.  I shouldn't have the
transmission
> > problem (knock on wood), as ours has the 6 speed manual tranny built by
> ZF.
> >
> >
> > I haven't had the cold weather problems, at least not yet.  We start
with
> a
> > much warmer winter than you do, though.  I think that the newer motors
> have
> > much better cold weather starting than the old ones.
> >
> > Now, about what else I should know...
> > Fuel types... I can never keep track of all of this.  I usually just buy
> > whatever diesel is in the pump. Sometimes that is at the car pumps, but
> > sometimes it is at the pumps that the trucks use.  What are the
> differences,
> > if any? And cold weather?
> > I normally use No.2 diesel, but think I'm supposed to use No.1 if the
> > weather turns really cold (for Ohio).  Am I correct?
> >
> > Then there is the water separator... I've always wondered what I'm
> supposed
> > to do with the water I drain out of the separator.  Is there somewhere
to
> > dispose of it at a gas station?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rik Sandberg [mailto:racerrik@rea-alp.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:45 PM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
> >
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > Seems like from what I am hearing, it isn't the engines in the diesel
> > pickups that are the problem. Looks to me like the manufacturers are
> having
> > trouble building automatic transmissions that will stand up to the
diesel.
> I
> > know several guys that have had all three major brands of diesel pickups
> and
> > most have had no engine trouble to speak of, but have had lots of
> > transmission trouble. Then there's my brother's 7.3 ford that's had
> trouble
> > with both.
> >
> > I'm with Brad a little on this. A diesel pickup is not necessarily a
great
> > thing for the more casual driver. Fuel is sometimes harder to locate. It
> is
> > also helpful if one understands a little about diesel fuel types, water
> (in
> > the fuel), fuel filters, cold temperatures and glow plugs. One of my pet
> > peeves with my old diesel (older Chevy 6.2) was the way the glow plugs
> kept
> > cycling on after the engine was running. I finally took them off of
their
> > sensors and hooked them up to only work manually. I had no more problems
> > after that. If you should ever happen to get into any cold weather with
> your
> > new diesel, I hope you have studied up on this subject, because you can
> get
> > in trouble real fast with a diesel if it turns cold on you.
> >
> > A diesel pickup is really kinda overkill for pulling an R 22. If all you
> are
> > worried about is pulling the guts out of your gas pickup because you're
> > pulling your boat, this should not be a concern to you. Our boats are
not
> a
> > big load to virtually any V-8 made today. Heck, my gas V-6 handles the R
> 22,
> > no sweat. Also, it seems the fuel mileage on these new diesels isn't
> > necessarily so good anymore, since they started turning up the pumps for
> > better horsepower numbers. Most of the new gas engines seem to pound out
> > 150,000 miles or so pretty regularly these days.
> >
> > Rik
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gardner, Douglas L. (LNG-DAY)" <douglas.gardner@lexisnexis.com>
> > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 2:40 PM
> > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
> >
> >
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > I have a Dodge 3500 with the Cummins, and love it.
> > > Data says that the average miles between an engine rebuild for the
> Cummins
> > > is 300K.  My understanding is that the new GM diesel (Duramax) is
> > excellent
> > > as well. If I recall correctly, the Duramax is built by Isuzu (also
> known
> > > for their diesel engines).
> > >
> > > I've heard mixed reviews on the International engines in the Fords,
but
> > have
> > > no data to back it up.  Like Brad, I have spoken to a lot of Ford
diesel
> > > owners who swear by them. I'm sure that all 3 motors are far superior
to
> > > their gasoline counterparts.  My guess is that opinions on them are
> > largely
> > > influenced by brand loyalty/hatred rather than true quality concerns.
> > Many
> > > truck owners have the "I wouldn't own a Chevy (or Ford or Dodge) if
you
> > paid
> > > me" attitude. Today, my wife is anti-GM.  Who knows what next year
will
> > > bring.
> > >
> > >   Worth the extra cost?  A friend of mine pointed out that you can buy
a
> > LOT
> > > of gasoline for $4K. It really depends on how you use it. I like to
> drive
> > a
> > > vehicle until it dies, so the plan on the truck was to have it for
many,
> > > many years.
> > >
> > > --Doug
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: brad haslett [mailto:flybrad@yahoo.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 2:39 PM
> > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe, I know of at least 20 guys at work that have Ford
> > > F-250's with diesels and they swear by them. Dodge
> > > uses a Cummins diesel which is good too. I don't know
> > > much about GM's because I'm just not a GM kinda guy.
> > > Pretty good mileage for the size and the engine is
> > > good for 200K.  The downside is that they are
> > > expensive (about 4k more on the front end) and you now
> > > can't pull into any convenience store for fuel.  I
> > > drove a Mercedes diesel for 200K miles and my son
> > > drove it another 75K. The car was getting rather tired
> > > but the engine was still going strong, typical of good
> > > diesel engines.  Going down the interstate is no
> > > problem, just look for Ric, and follow him to fuel.
> > > Around town, especially in a strange city, it can
> > > become a major PITA to find fuel. For me personally,
> > > the extra front end expense and convenience has kept
> > > me out of returning to diesel but they do last a long,
> > > long time. If I did a lot of heavy towing (heavier
> > > than the R-22) the diesel would definately be the
> > > ticket.  If your current truck is in good shape other
> > > than the miles, you might consider running it until
> > > the engine dies and then repower with a rebuilt Jasper
> > > engine.  They are not cheap but Jasper's are probably
> > > the best rebuilt engines on the market.
> > >
> > > Brad Haslett
> > > "CoraShen"
> > > --- "Ware, Joseph W." <joseph_ware@merck.com> wrote:
> > > > Any one have good information on the longevity of a
> > > > diesel motor in a pickup
> > > > vs. a regular gas motor?  I'm in the market and will
> > > > be putting on about
> > > > 20,000 miles a year for the next 8 years.  Either I
> > > > run my current gas motor
> > > > to death, (it already has 120,000 miles on it), or I
> > > > pickup a new diesel
> > > > which I hear can handle the extra miles.
> > > >
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > > --
> > > > Notice: This e-mail message, together with any
> > > > attachments, contains information of Merck & Co.,
> > > > Inc. (Whitehouse Station, New Jersey, USA) that may
> > > > be confidential, proprietary copyrighted and/or
> > > > legally privileged, and is intended solely for the
> > > > use of the individual or entity named on this
> > > > message. If you are not the intended recipient, and
> > > > have received this message in error, please
> > > > immediately return this by e-mail and then delete
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
============================================================================
> > > ==
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________
> > > > Use Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
> > > http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
> > > _________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > _________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > _________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
>
> _________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> Notice: This e-mail message, together with any attachments, contains
information of Merck & Co., Inc. (Whitehouse Station, New
Jersey, USA) that may be confidential, proprietary copyrighted and/or
legally privileged, and is intended solely for the use of the
individual or entity named on this message. If you are not the intended
recipient, and have received this message in error, please
immediately return this by e-mail and then delete it.
>
>
============================================================================
==
>
> _________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list

_________________________________________________
Use Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notice: This e-mail message, together with any attachments, contains information of Merck & Co., Inc. (Whitehouse Station, New Jersey, USA) that may be confidential, proprietary copyrighted and/or legally privileged, and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity named on this message.  If you are not the intended recipient, and have received this message in error, please immediately return this by e-mail and then delete it.

==============================================================================