[Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks

[Ware, Joseph W.]

Ah Michael, what you are missing is right now the boat is staying in PA with
me.  I sail on a local lake.  We travel south to the house because we are
refurbishing it for retirement as well as fishing on a stinkpot.  The boat
will go south in 2003 or 2004.  We will still be making the trip until we
retire.  It's not about towing, I have no problem with my durrent truck,
it's about the excessive miles, and when to replace the vehicle.  If I
replace it now, I will get the diesel.  If I run it into the ground, and
purchase a new vehicle closer to when we stop making the trip, it will be
gas.  It's all about when it happens.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Meltzer [mailto:mjm@michaelmeltzer.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 9:02 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks


maybe I am missing something, Why not keep the boat down their?
you should be able to dry store for a few hundred dollar or get a slip. your
milage will be cut in half towing the boat, that alone
should pay for it, not to mention the ware and tare;.

MJM



----- Original Message -----
From: "Ware, Joseph W." <joseph_ware@merck.com>
To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 8:02 AM
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks


> Great discussion, thanks.  I'm from eastern Pennsylvania, and travel 220
> miles each way south to the eastern shore of Virginia every other weekend.
> I will be doing this for another 3-5 years before I finally retire.  There
> in lies my dilemma.  Keep my 1997 Dodge 1500, 5.9L gas truck with 120,000
> miles on it now and add another 80,000 to 100,000.  Or, dump it now and
pick
> up the diesel.  My reason for the diesel is the 80,000 to 100,000 initial
> miles, then the rest of the life of me or the truck after that.  If I stay
> with my current vehicle, I'll need to replace it in the future anyway.  So
> why not now, and get the diesel.
>
> Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rik Sandberg [mailto:racerrik@rea-alp.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 7:01 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
>
>
> Doug,
>
> You are right, out in Ohio where you are the winters are a ton milder than
> here. I don't know where Joe is from though or where he might go, so I
> brought the subject up.
>
> Far as your fuel is concerned, #2 for most of the conditions you will get
> into in Ohio, will work just fine. If you feel you are going to see temps
> under maybe 10 degrees or so, you might think about buying a 50/50 blend
of
> #1 and #2, or you can blend it yourself by just putting half in from each
> respective pump. That's assuming that you buy fuel where they actually
have
> a pump for both grades. If you are looking at temps lower than 5 or 10
below
> 0, I would seriously consider not blending at all and going with straight
#1
> fuel. There is a lot of paraffin in #2 diesel fuel. When it starts getting
> pretty cold this paraffin will start to solidify and separate from the
> liquid. The paraffin solids will plug your fuel filters in short order
once
> they start forming. This is called jelling up. It generally had to be
pretty
> cold for this to happen. Probably below zero if you have pretty good
quality
> fuel. I have seen it happen at about 25 above though if you get a batch of
> crappy fuel. You can probably get into those high cetane winter blend
fuels
> and stuff too if you want to. We have never messed with that stuff though.
I
> don't know exactly what the difference is, but I do know it's generally
> quite a bit more expensive
>
> OK, that's one way to freeze up, but there is also another way. Water in
> your fuel can freeze almost anytime the weather is below freezing and
will,
> especially if you park your vehicle outside and shut it off for a while.
Now
> most people think they get water in their fuel from the fuel station.
Well,
> this is possible, but, most time they actually put the water in the tank
> themselves without realizing it.
>
> What one needs to understand is how condensation can put water in your
fuel.
> Our biggest problem, fuel-wise, in the winter is our heated garage. If a
> driver doesn't top off his fuel tank before parking his truck in the warm
> garage, there will always be water in his fuel tanks. If he does this very
> many times in a row, there will be enough water in the tanks to be picked
up
> with the fuel and make it to the fuel filters, where it WILL eventually
turn
> to ice and freeze the filter shut. I know you probably can't look inside
the
> fuel tank on your pickup, but on my big truck, I can. When these trucks
get
> backed inside our shop on a cold day with a less than full tank, I can
pull
> of the fuel cap and see the frost on the inside of the tank. Sooner or
later
> this frost is going to become water and end up in the bottom of the tank.
>
> So, it is kind of a toss up whether you are better off keeping your truck
> inside so you always start with warm fuel, or keep it outside so you don't
> get condensation in your tank. Given a choice I would pick inside, being
> careful to keep my tanks full as much as possible and also regularly
adding
> some isopropyl alcohol (or similar fuel treatment, I have also used
> methanol) to the tanks to break up the water. Also, in the winter I always
> carry at least one set of fuel filters with me, ALL THE TIME. You'll
usually
> only plug the primary filter, but I've seen both changed before the truck
> would run again.
>
> Keep in mind here, I'm am absolutely NOT a chemist!!! Most of these
lessons
> I have just picked up at the school of hard knocks and frozen toes. Got
the
> poor circulation in my fingers and toes to prove it. :-)
>
> Rik
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gardner, Douglas L. (LNG-DAY)" <douglas.gardner@lexisnexis.com>
> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:08 PM
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
>
>
> > Rik,
> >
> >    I'm certainly not going to disagree with you on anything diesel!
> > Clearly, my truck is more than overkill for the R22.  When I just had
the
> > Rhodes, the motor in my Jeep Cherokee was just fine.  The vehicle was a
> > little light for my taste, but the motor was more than adequate.
> >
> > I also heard about problems with the drive train not being up to the
> diesel.
> > Like, when Dodge first introduced the Cummins as an option, there was a
> > problem with farmers snapping the driveshaft because they were pulling a
> > fully loaded wagon out of a field.  The motor was up to it, but the rest
> > couldn't handle the additional torque.  I shouldn't have the
transmission
> > problem (knock on wood), as ours has the 6 speed manual tranny built by
> ZF.
> >
> >
> > I haven't had the cold weather problems, at least not yet.  We start
with
> a
> > much warmer winter than you do, though.  I think that the newer motors
> have
> > much better cold weather starting than the old ones.
> >
> > Now, about what else I should know...
> > Fuel types... I can never keep track of all of this.  I usually just buy
> > whatever diesel is in the pump. Sometimes that is at the car pumps, but
> > sometimes it is at the pumps that the trucks use.  What are the
> differences,
> > if any? And cold weather?
> > I normally use No.2 diesel, but think I'm supposed to use No.1 if the
> > weather turns really cold (for Ohio).  Am I correct?
> >
> > Then there is the water separator... I've always wondered what I'm
> supposed
> > to do with the water I drain out of the separator.  Is there somewhere
to
> > dispose of it at a gas station?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rik Sandberg [mailto:racerrik@rea-alp.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:45 PM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
> >
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > Seems like from what I am hearing, it isn't the engines in the diesel
> > pickups that are the problem. Looks to me like the manufacturers are
> having
> > trouble building automatic transmissions that will stand up to the
diesel.
> I
> > know several guys that have had all three major brands of diesel pickups
> and
> > most have had no engine trouble to speak of, but have had lots of
> > transmission trouble. Then there's my brother's 7.3 ford that's had
> trouble
> > with both.
> >
> > I'm with Brad a little on this. A diesel pickup is not necessarily a
great
> > thing for the more casual driver. Fuel is sometimes harder to locate. It
> is
> > also helpful if one understands a little about diesel fuel types, water
> (in
> > the fuel), fuel filters, cold temperatures and glow plugs. One of my pet
> > peeves with my old diesel (older Chevy 6.2) was the way the glow plugs
> kept
> > cycling on after the engine was running. I finally took them off of
their
> > sensors and hooked them up to only work manually. I had no more problems
> > after that. If you should ever happen to get into any cold weather with
> your
> > new diesel, I hope you have studied up on this subject, because you can
> get
> > in trouble real fast with a diesel if it turns cold on you.
> >
> > A diesel pickup is really kinda overkill for pulling an R 22. If all you
> are
> > worried about is pulling the guts out of your gas pickup because you're
> > pulling your boat, this should not be a concern to you. Our boats are
not
> a
> > big load to virtually any V-8 made today. Heck, my gas V-6 handles the R
> 22,
> > no sweat. Also, it seems the fuel mileage on these new diesels isn't
> > necessarily so good anymore, since they started turning up the pumps for
> > better horsepower numbers. Most of the new gas engines seem to pound out
> > 150,000 miles or so pretty regularly these days.
> >
> > Rik
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gardner, Douglas L. (LNG-DAY)" <douglas.gardner@lexisnexis.com>
> > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 2:40 PM
> > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
> >
> >
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > I have a Dodge 3500 with the Cummins, and love it.
> > > Data says that the average miles between an engine rebuild for the
> Cummins
> > > is 300K.  My understanding is that the new GM diesel (Duramax) is
> > excellent
> > > as well. If I recall correctly, the Duramax is built by Isuzu (also
> known
> > > for their diesel engines).
> > >
> > > I've heard mixed reviews on the International engines in the Fords,
but
> > have
> > > no data to back it up.  Like Brad, I have spoken to a lot of Ford
diesel
> > > owners who swear by them. I'm sure that all 3 motors are far superior
to
> > > their gasoline counterparts.  My guess is that opinions on them are
> > largely
> > > influenced by brand loyalty/hatred rather than true quality concerns.
> > Many
> > > truck owners have the "I wouldn't own a Chevy (or Ford or Dodge) if
you
> > paid
> > > me" attitude. Today, my wife is anti-GM.  Who knows what next year
will
> > > bring.
> > >
> > >   Worth the extra cost?  A friend of mine pointed out that you can buy
a
> > LOT
> > > of gasoline for $4K. It really depends on how you use it. I like to
> drive
> > a
> > > vehicle until it dies, so the plan on the truck was to have it for
many,
> > > many years.
> > >
> > > --Doug
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: brad haslett [mailto:flybrad@yahoo.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 2:39 PM
> > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Diesel Powered Trucks
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe, I know of at least 20 guys at work that have Ford
> > > F-250's with diesels and they swear by them. Dodge
> > > uses a Cummins diesel which is good too. I don't know
> > > much about GM's because I'm just not a GM kinda guy.
> > > Pretty good mileage for the size and the engine is
> > > good for 200K.  The downside is that they are
> > > expensive (about 4k more on the front end) and you now
> > > can't pull into any convenience store for fuel.  I
> > > drove a Mercedes diesel for 200K miles and my son
> > > drove it another 75K. The car was getting rather tired
> > > but the engine was still going strong, typical of good
> > > diesel engines.  Going down the interstate is no
> > > problem, just look for Ric, and follow him to fuel.
> > > Around town, especially in a strange city, it can
> > > become a major PITA to find fuel. For me personally,
> > > the extra front end expense and convenience has kept
> > > me out of returning to diesel but they do last a long,
> > > long time. If I did a lot of heavy towing (heavier
> > > than the R-22) the diesel would definately be the
> > > ticket.  If your current truck is in good shape other
> > > than the miles, you might consider running it until
> > > the engine dies and then repower with a rebuilt Jasper
> > > engine.  They are not cheap but Jasper's are probably
> > > the best rebuilt engines on the market.
> > >
> > > Brad Haslett
> > > "CoraShen"
> > > --- "Ware, Joseph W." <joseph_ware@merck.com> wrote:
> > > > Any one have good information on the longevity of a
> > > > diesel motor in a pickup
> > > > vs. a regular gas motor?  I'm in the market and will
> > > > be putting on about
> > > > 20,000 miles a year for the next 8 years.  Either I
> > > > run my current gas motor
> > > > to death, (it already has 120,000 miles on it), or I
> > > > pickup a new diesel
> > > > which I hear can handle the extra miles.
> > > >
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
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