[Rhodes22-list] V-berth flotation

Michael Meltzer rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
Mon, 9 Sep 2002 23:47:25 -0400


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tow things I should mention here,

The weight that is incorporated in the compression post is part of the =
original Phil Rhodes spec, that why is filled,

The stringers and the v-berth are thier not only for thier use but to =
strengen the hull(same for alot of the other stuff), the hull empty it =
unfit to sail, it has no strenght. maybe I missed something here but the =
boat acts as a system not like a house where you only have to watchout =
for barring walls.

MJM
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Toad the Wet Sprocket=20
  To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
  Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 10:51 PM
  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] V-berth flotation


  Denny, =20

       Thanks for all of the input.  Yes, my boat had a fiberglass top =
over the v-berth section.  The PO must have had a water problem because =
he cut a hole in the panel to drop a bilge pump into the bow area and =
that is how I found out I had no flotation.

       There was a plywood boxed off section against the rear bulkhead =
as deep as this area, about 18" wide and 24" front to back. There was a =
cover with a finger hole  I drew up some sketches of what I want to do.  =
I plan to cut the top off leaving about a 2" lip around the edge so I =
can glass a new panel over top when I am finished.  I am not sure what =
to use or where to find panel material.  Someone I talked to mentioned =
something called "star-board".   I have to research it better first.  If =
not I'll go with the 1/2" marine plywood.     I am going to tear out the =
floor of the cabin, the galley area, and the stepped up area by the =
v-berth to check the integrity of the wood .....especially the area =
under the compression post/bulkhead. The post is only two 1 x 3's, and I =
may beef it up to overkill.  Once I have the cabin floor out I want to =
drop it in the water once to check the hull for leaks before I go on.   =
But there is no telling what else I am going to find.  Then the fun =
begins.=20

      I took a guess (I haven't measured yet) at the volume of the =
v-berth area to be about 13 cubic feet.  What did you come up with and =
did it take the whole 2 gallons of pre-mix?  (I know you have 4" less =
height)  After thinking about your open design, it is giving me ideas to =
do the same.  We will never be out more than the weekend and always use =
bottled and carried along water when ever we camp, rarely using the sink =
in our camper.

      I am still waiting for the titling documents for my boat.  Once I =
have them, I am going to bring the boat home where I can work on it more =
often.  Now it's an hour away and 300 ft from an electrical outlet  :^(  =
  Things will go much faster when I can step right from the garage/shop =
into the boat.


  Berwick seems pretty land-locked.  Are there lakes near where you =
live?



  Todd



  Please respond to sprocket80@hotmail.com

  From: "Dennis J Sitler"=20
  Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
  To:=20
  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] V-berth flotation=20
  Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:04:46 -0400=20
  Hi Todd,=20
  The foam was X-30 from Tapplastics. Look under molding and casting on =
the web site. It is interesting that you have a fiberglass panel in the =
v-berth. My boat had one too, but it was broken loose from the starboard =
side and that was how I figured there wasn't a foam block under it. It =
seems that the other boats that I have seen don't have these, but have a =
bulkhead with the foam forward and plywood on top. That is what I did =
with my boat. I removed the fiberglass insert, along with everything =
else in the cabin, except the large piece of cement ballast. I then put =
a bulkhead on each side of the cement. From the forward one I put foam =
and to the rear one I attached the seats and the floor. I put seats on =
each side as I didn't have a galley to copy or rebuild. I have some =
idea's on making a pop up sink in the end of one seat. I think my boat =
will have more of a day sailor look, but with what was left of a galley, =
and my amateur experience at boat building this is the way I went. So =
when I put the foam in I drew lines to the bow of the v-berth in a level =
plane. I then filled the open area until it was higher than the lines, =
and cut it down with a knife and a wood rasp. I then cut a section =
toward the front and epoxied a length of plywood across for something to =
fasten the 2 piece plywood top to in the front. I plan to seal the edges =
with can foam like Great Stuff and sand and paint. I have found that =
Great Stuff shrunk a little when I painted it with oil base primer =
though. I am putting a compression post from the cement block to the =
cabin top, so it will have a open look when it is done, when ever that =
may be. I have a lot more work to do as I'm sure you do, but I'm going =
sailing while I can on my small boat, or with friends, and will be =
working on the boat and trailer on rainy or winter days. I've given up =
for this year.=20
  Denny,=20
  1974 R22 Gossamer Wing=20
  Berwick, PA=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Toad the Wet Sprocket=20
  To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
  Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 10:54 PM=20
  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] V-berth flotation=20
  Denny,=20
  Thanks for the response. Was there a specific foam you used? You say =
it expands fast huh? How dense is it? I'll have to I could experiment =
with it first. I guess I'd have to remove the fiberglass panel over the =
V-berth area and cut any overflow down, rather than try to pour through =
a few cut-in access holes. I will probably box off a couple of small =
areas against the aft bulkhead for a water tank and second battery =
compartment as someone mentioned they had.=20
  I would certainly like to see your pictures and share mine with you. =
I, as I am sure you are, am keeping a detailed journal with pictures. I =
am in the process of gutting the entire interior of the cabin. My boat =
apparently sat for a long time with the campanionway hatch partly open =
and had quite a bit of rain water inside. Luckily a battery supplying =
power to a couple of automatic bilge pumps must have run dead only =
recently. Since the tongue of the trailer was on the ground, the water =
pooled in the bow area....until some idiot (me) blocked the tongue up =
and flooded the cabin. We will have to connect and exchange mailing =
addresses.=20
  Todd=20
  Please respond to sprocket80@hotmail.com=20


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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>tow things I should mention =
here,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The weight that is incorporated in the =
compression=20
post is part of the original Phil Rhodes spec, that why is =
filled,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The stringers and the v-berth are thier =
not only=20
for thier use but to strengen the hull(same for alot of the other =
stuff), the=20
hull empty it unfit to sail, it has no strenght. maybe I missed =
something here=20
but the boat acts as a system not like a house where you only have to =
watchout=20
for barring walls.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>MJM</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dsprocket80@hotmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:sprocket80@hotmail.com">Toad the=20
  Wet Sprocket</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
 </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 09, =
2002 10:51=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Rhodes22-list] =
V-berth=20
  flotation</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P>Denny,&nbsp; </P>
  <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks for all of the input.&nbsp; Yes, my =
boat=20
  had a fiberglass top over the v-berth section.&nbsp; The PO must have =
had a=20
  water problem because he cut a hole in the panel to drop a bilge pump =
into the=20
  bow area and that is how I found out I had no flotation.</P>
  <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There was a plywood boxed off section =
against the=20
  rear bulkhead as deep as this area, about 18" wide and 24" front to =
back.=20
  There was a cover with a finger hole&nbsp; I drew up some sketches of =
what I=20
  want to do.&nbsp; I plan to cut the top off leaving about a 2" lip =
around the=20
  edge so I can glass a new panel over top when I am finished.&nbsp; I =
am not=20
  sure what to use or where to find panel material.&nbsp; Someone I =
talked to=20
  mentioned something called "star-board".&nbsp;&nbsp; I have to =
research it=20
  better first.&nbsp; If not I'll go with the 1/2" marine=20
  plywood.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am going to tear out the floor of =
the=20
  cabin, the galley area, and the stepped up area by the v-berth to =
check the=20
  integrity of the wood .....especially the area under the compression=20
  post/bulkhead. The post is only two 1 x 3's, and I may beef it up to=20
  overkill.&nbsp; Once I have the cabin floor out I want to drop it in =
the water=20
  once to check the hull for leaks before I go on.&nbsp;&nbsp; But there =
is no=20
  telling what else I am going to find.&nbsp; Then&nbsp;the fun=20
begins.&nbsp;</P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I took a guess (I haven't measured yet) at the =
volume of=20
  the v-berth area to be about 13 cubic feet.&nbsp; What did you come up =
with=20
  and did it take the whole 2 gallons of pre-mix?&nbsp; (I know you have =
4" less=20
  height)&nbsp; After thinking about your open design, it is giving me =
ideas to=20
  do the same.&nbsp; We will never be out more than the weekend and =
always use=20
  bottled and carried along water when ever we camp,&nbsp;rarely using =
the sink=20
  in our camper.</P>
  <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am still waiting for the titling documents for =
my=20
  boat.&nbsp; Once I have them, I am going to bring the boat home where =
I can=20
  work on it more often.&nbsp; Now it's an hour away and 300 ft from an=20
  electrical outlet &nbsp;:^(&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Things will go much =
faster when=20
  I can step right from&nbsp;the&nbsp;garage/shop into the boat.<BR></P>
  <P>Berwick seems pretty land-locked.&nbsp; Are there lakes near where =
you=20
  live?<BR><BR></P></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>Todd<BR><BR><BR>
  <DIV>Please respond to <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:sprocket80@hotmail.com">sprocket80@hotmail.com</A></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>From: "Dennis J Sitler" <DJSITLER@GMPEXPRESS.NET>
  <DIV></DIV>Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
  <DIV></DIV>To: <RHODES22-LIST@RHODES22.ORG>
  <DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] V-berth flotation=20
  <DIV></DIV>Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:04:46 -0400=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>Hi Todd,=20
  <DIV></DIV>The foam was X-30 from Tapplastics. Look under molding and =
casting=20
  on the web site. It is interesting that you have a fiberglass panel in =
the=20
  v-berth. My boat had one too, but it was broken loose from the =
starboard side=20
  and that was how I figured there wasn't a foam block under it. It =
seems that=20
  the other boats that I have seen don't have these, but have a bulkhead =
with=20
  the foam forward and plywood on top. That is what I did with my boat. =
I=20
  removed the fiberglass insert, along with everything else in the =
cabin, except=20
  the large piece of cement ballast. I then put a bulkhead on each side =
of the=20
  cement. From the forward one I put foam and to the rear one I attached =
the=20
  seats and the floor. I put seats on each side as I didn't have a =
galley to=20
  copy or rebuild. I have some idea's on making a pop up sink in the end =
of one=20
  seat. I think my boat will have more of a day sailor look, but with =
what was=20
  left of a galley, and my amateur experience at boat building this is =
the way I=20
  went. So when I put the foam in I drew lines to the bow of the v-berth =
in a=20
  level plane. I then filled the open area until it was higher than the =
lines,=20
  and cut it down with a knife and a wood rasp. I then cut a section =
toward the=20
  front and epoxied a length of plywood across for something to fasten =
the 2=20
  piece plywood top to in the front. I plan to seal the edges with can =
foam like=20
  Great Stuff and sand and paint. I have found that Great Stuff shrunk a =
little=20
  when I painted it with oil base primer though. I am putting a =
compression post=20
  from the cement block to the cabin top, so it will have a open look =
when it is=20
  done, when ever that may be. I have a lot more work to do as I'm sure =
you do,=20
  but I'm going sailing while I can on my small boat, or with friends, =
and will=20
  be working on the boat and trailer on rainy or winter days. I've given =
up for=20
  this year.=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>Denny,=20
  <DIV></DIV>1974 R22 Gossamer Wing=20
  <DIV></DIV>Berwick, PA=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>----- Original Message -----=20
  <DIV></DIV>From: Toad the Wet Sprocket=20
  <DIV></DIV>To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
  <DIV></DIV>Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 10:54 PM=20
  <DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] V-berth flotation=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>Denny,=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>Thanks for the response. Was there a specific foam you =
used? You=20
  say it expands fast huh? How dense is it? I'll have to I could =
experiment with=20
  it first. I guess I'd have to remove the fiberglass panel over the =
V-berth=20
  area and cut any overflow down, rather than try to pour through a few =
cut-in=20
  access holes. I will probably box off a couple of small areas against =
the aft=20
  bulkhead for a water tank and second battery compartment as someone =
mentioned=20
  they had.=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>I would certainly like to see your pictures and share mine =
with=20
  you. I, as I am sure you are, am keeping a detailed journal with =
pictures. I=20
  am in the process of gutting the entire interior of the cabin. My boat =

  apparently sat for a long time with the campanionway hatch partly open =
and had=20
  quite a bit of rain water inside. Luckily a battery supplying power to =
a=20
  couple of automatic bilge pumps must have run dead only recently. =
Since the=20
  tongue of the trailer was on the ground, the water pooled in the bow=20
  area....until some idiot (me) blocked the tongue up and flooded the =
cabin. We=20
  will have to connect and exchange mailing addresses.=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>Todd=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>Please respond to sprocket80@hotmail.com=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
  <HR>
  MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <A=20
  href=3D"http://g.msn.com/1HM1ENUS/c156??PI=3D44364">Click=20
  Here</A><BR>_______________________________________ Subscribers, send =
mail to=20
  this address Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org To change your options or =
unsubscribe=20
  from the list click on this link=20
  http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list Check out our =
FAQ pages=20
  at http://www.geocities.com/blew_skies/topics.html =
http://www.sailnet.com/=20
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