[Rhodes22-list] What's The Difference Between #1, #2, #3, ... , #6 Fuel Oil?

[Michael Meltzer]

thanks, after I read hot the "beast" heats it fuel, I think I be safe and I run the "power stoke" stuff to be on the safe side,
after reading rodger it seem the fact it "oils" the pumps can not be a bad thing, just have to stop at only doubling the rate :-)
thanjs dan.

MJM

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rik Sandberg" <sanderico at earthlink.net>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] What's The Difference Between #1, #2, #3, ... ,#6 Fuel Oil?


> Roger,
>
> Excellent desciption of diesels and why/how they work. Far better than I
> could have done.
>
> The most important point in Rogers post concerning winter operations with
> diesels is when he talks about the cloud point. This is what what most people
> think of as the point where diesel fuel "gells" I doubt that one could see
> this in their cars of SUVs. In a truck though, you can easily see into the
> fuel tanks and when your fuel is cold enough to be at the cloud point, it is
> readily visible. You will start to see a "waxy" sort of layer floating on to
> of the fuel and the fuel below will not appear clear anymore, but cloudy. The
> whole idea is top keep the fuel warmed above this cloud point temperature, or
> to lower the cloud point temperature by adding chemicals. My experience has
> been that not all brands of diesel fuel have the same cloud point
> temperature. Or, perhaps this can even vary from one batch to another at the
> same station. Also not all cloud point lowering chemical treatments are
> created equal, some seem to be better than others.
>
> When you are dirving in extremely cold weather, it becomes much more
> difficult to keep your fuel warmed above the cloud point, because the "wind
> chill" will remove the heat from your fuel tanks, perhaps faster than it is
> being rewarmed by your engine. Diesel engines have what is called a fuel
> by-pass. That is, not all of the fuel that is pumped from the tank is
> injected into the cylinders and burned. Some of it is bypasses the injector
> pump and is returned to the tank. During this round trip, it is warmed. The
> secret to the whole thing is to conserve enough of the warmth, or to add even
> more with an additional fuel heater, to keep the fuel in the tank above the
> cloud point. If you can do this, your diesel will continue to run, no matter
> how cold it gets. Fail to do this and you will eventually end up with plugged
> fuel filters and a cold walk in your future.
>
> Mostly from the school of hard knox
>
> Rik
>
> On 12/10/2003 08:14 am, you wrote:
> > Hi Everybody,
> >
> > The 1st thing you need to know is that crude oil is a very complex mixture
> > of literally thousands of different organic, inorganic, and organo-metallic
> > compounds & the specific composition varies greatly between crude oils from
> > different fields.  One of the first processing steps in an oil refinery is
> > to send the crude oil thru a distillation tower.  In the distillation
> > tower, the components in the crude oil mixture are separated into fractions
> > by their boiling point ranges.  The components with the lowest boiling
> > points come out the top of the distillation tower as vapor.  These would
> > include compounds like methane, ethane, ethylene, propane, and butane.
> > These so called "light components" are sent to another distillation tower
> > which operates at cryogenic temperature for further separation.  Going down
> > the crude oil distillation tower, fractions with greater & greater boiling
> > point ranges are removed as liquid side streams.  From the top of the tower
> > down, these fractions are: gasoline or naphtha, JP-4, kerosene or #1 fuel
> > oil, #2 fuel oil, #4 fuel oil, #5 light, #5 heavy, & #6 fuel oil.  #3 fuel
> > oil is not an official API crude oil fraction designation because it would
> > have to be removed from the distillation tower very near the feed port.
> > Removal of this #3 fuel oil side stream in the vicinity of the feed port
> > would tend to upset the operation of the distillation tower.  Believe me,
> > achieving stable on-spec operation of a distillation tower with 9 or 10
> > product streams & a variable feed stock is one of the most difficult
> > process control problems in all of chemical engineering, even without
> > screwing up the column operation by removing a side stream near the feed
> > port!  Sometimes refineries will cut a deal with a local business & sell
> > them a product called #3 fuel oil with a boiling point range intermediate
> > between #2 fuel oil & #4 fuel oil.  But, it's always made by blending #2
> > fuel oil & #4 fuel oil.  Remember, all these products are not pure
> > compounds.  They are complex mixtures that meet a boiling point range
> > specification.
> >
> > OK, so what happens if you feed a diesel engine a fuel oil that's too
> > light? The fuel injection system in a diesel engine has a number of very
> > precisely machined, highly polished components that meter & atomize the
> > fuel.  These pieces/parts depend upon the lubricating qualities of the fuel
> > oil to lubricate & cool them as they operate.  A fuel oil that's too light
> > will not have the oil film strength (basically viscosity) to prevent
> > metal-to-metal contact in the fuel injection system.  The fuel injection
> > system will self-destruct in short order.  In addition, a fuel oil that's
> > too light will have a boiling point range outside of the design range of
> > the fuel injection system.  Remember, the fuel injection system is located
> > right next to a hot engine.  If the light fuel oil starts vaporizing inside
> > the injection pump &/or injectors, the system will stop working.  There
> > will be instant catastrophic metal-to-metal contact & the system will seize
> > up.  Finally, smooth operation of the diesel engine depends upon the
> > atomized droplets of fuel in the combustion chamber behaving in a
> > predictable manner.  Basically, what's supposed to happen is that in the
> > microseconds immediately following fuel injection, the light components of
> > the diesel oil mixture start boiling out of each droplet.  These light
> > components mix as a vapor with the air in the combustion chamber,
> > eventually forming a mixture with a composition within the flammable range.
> >  Somewhere in this vapor space, the flammable mixture lights off due to the
> > adiabatic heat of compression (remember it's a diesel - no spark plugs).
> > The flame front rapidly consumes all the fuel present as a vapor & ends up
> > burning at the surface of the remaining droplets of fuel.  These droplets
> > of fuel progressively boil up their remaining lightest components & the
> > remaining droplet gets enriched in heavy boiling components.  Under heavy
> > load, there isn't enough time available during the 4-cycle engine's power
> > stroke to completely combust the heaviest components.  These heavy
> > components get ejected with the exhaust gases & we see them as diesel smoke
> > & soot.  If there are too much light boiling components in the diesel fuel;
> > then, too much of the droplet vaporizes in-between fuel injection &
> > ignition.  Two things can happen.  Ignition can actually occur while the
> > fuel injectors are still atomizing fuel.  The fuel injectors were not
> > designed to have a high temperature flame impinging on them while they are
> > in operation atomizing fuel & they can be damaged.  The other thing that
> > can happen is that a relatively large amount of light boiling components
> > end up in the vapor space prior to ignition.  When this big fuel charge
> > lights off, combustion is too rapid & the
> > pressure/temperature in the combustion chamber exceeds design limits.  This
> > can cause problems like blown head gaskets, holes in pistons, burnt valve
> > seats, etc.  It's sort of like having the spark timing set incorrectly on a
> > gasoline engine &/or using a fuel with too low an octane number for the
> > spark ignited engine's compression ratio.  In fact, diesel fuels actually
> > have a "cetane number", which is the opposite of an "octane number".  A
> > high cetane number means the fuel will preignite very readily.  Diesel
> > fuels have a low octane number and a high cetane number.  The optimum
> > injection timing in a diesel engine strongly depends upon the lag time
> > between fuel atomization & initial light off & this lag time is mostly
> > controlled by the boiling point range of the diesel fuel.
> >
> > So what happens if you feed a diesel engine a fuel oil that's too heavy?
> > The viscosity of the fuel oil goes up along with the boiling point range.
> > A heavy fuel oil may be too viscous for the fuel system to pump from the
> > fuel tank to fuel injection metering system, especially at low
> > temperatures.  In addition, all fuel oils have a specification called the
> > "cloud point". Basically that's the temperature at which the fuel oil
> > becomes visibly cloudy or scatters transmitted light.  Physically, what's
> > happening is that the heaviest boiling components in the fuel oil have
> > solidified into micron sized particles of a waxy material.  Remember all
> > those very precise, highly polished pieces/parts in the fuel injection
> > system?  The diesel engine's fuel system has a system of very fine mesh
> > filters & oil/water separators designed to filter out abrasive particles &
> > water in order to protect those parts.  These waxy particles will clog up
> > the fuel filters in a diesel engine very quickly.  Winter diesel fuel
> > additives increase the solubility of these waxy materials so they stay
> > dissolved.  The higher viscosity fuel oil may not atomize properly in the
> > fuel injectors, resulting in the atomized droplets being too big in the
> > combustion chamber.  Bigger droplets result in less surface area for the
> > light boiling components to evaporate from.  In addition, the heavy fuel
> > oil has relatively less of the lighter boiling components in it to begin
> > with.  So, there are less of the low boiling components present to vaporize
> > off the droplets & those that are there vaporize more slowly because of the
> > bigger droplets to mix with the air in the combustion chamber to light the
> > fire.  In other words, especially at low temperature, the engine may not
> > even run on this fuel.  That's why diesel engines have glow plugs
> > (combustion chamber preheaters) for winter operation.  Even if the diesel
> > engine does run on this fuel, a much larger % of the combustion will be of
> > the slower, less efficient variety wherein burning occurs at the surface of
> > the droplets.  I would expect the engine would be down on power & the
> > exhaust would be very smoky & sooty.
> >
> > So, although diesel engines can theoretically burn a wide range of fuels;
> > in reality, they are pretty finicky about what they will reliably run on.
> >
> > There, that's probably much more than you ever wanted to know re fuel oil
> > specifications & how diesel engines work.  Hopefully, I answered your
> > question.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kroposki" <kroposki at innova.net>
> > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 9:31 AM
> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Michael's Diesel #1 and #2
> >
> > > Dan, Rik and Rummy,
> > > Dan thank you for the latest on Ford's diesels, and for your
> > > inputs on diesel fuel and additives.
> > > Maybe we can get Roger to explain the chemical differences
> > > during the Christmas holidays, if he gets them.
> > > As for #3, it was used in big locomotive engines during the
> > > transition from coal to diesel.  It was used to generate steam.
> > >                           Ed K
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Michael Meltzer
> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:28 PM
> > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] RE: Michael's Diesel #1 and #2
> > >
> > > thanks, I will watch it and take it easly on the centen booster, BTW
> > > mine might be a early one 3/2003(did not know it until I picked
> > > it up), is their anything I should watch out for or bitch to the dealer
> > > about?(reflash the chip)
> > >
> > > MJM
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dan Bodnar" <dsbodnar at earthlink.net>
> > > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:23 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] RE: Michael's Diesel #1 and #2
> > >
> > > > Michael,
> > > > I've had several of the old 7.3L Diesels in E350 Vans.  The last one I
> > >
> > > owned
> > >
> > > > was in 2001 and it had glow plugs and a fuel heater and I'm fairly
> > >
> > > certain
> > >
> > > > that the new 6.0L still has the fuel heater.  I'm in the Metro Detroit
> > >
> > > area
> > >
> > > > and we rarely have nights much colder than -10 degrees.  I learned
> > >
> > > that I
> > >
> > > > did not need to plug it in unless it was going to be colder than 10
> > >
> > > below
> > >
> > > > 'cause the diesel started fine. I did plug it in when I knew it would
> > >
> > > be
> > >
> > > > colder than 10 below at night just to be safe. But, having forgotten
> > >
> > > to do
> > >
> > > > it a few times, taught me that they would start using just the
> > >
> > > recommended
> > >
> > > > start procedure.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, fresh winter grade fuel, or some Premium diesel (which I think
> > >
> > > is
> > >
> > > > really #1) and your diesel should do fine. Also make sure that the
> > >
> > > water
> > >
> > > > separator really does get drained with every oil change. I never had a
> > > > diesel not start.  They were a little smoky sometimes when it was zero
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > > > colder, but they always started.  I only used a diesel fuel
> > >
> > > conditioner on
> > >
> > > > one trip into Michigan's Upper Peninsula where I knew I was going to
> > >
> > > have
> > >
> > > > 20+ below-zero weather.  I don't remember the gel point of diesel
> > >
> > > either,
> > >
> > > > but I'm pretty sure it is lower than 15 below... now that I think
> > >
> > > about it,
> > >
> > > > if the numbers aren't in the diesel supplement to your owner's manual,
> > >
> > > then
> > >
> > > > the gel point is printed on the back of some of the bottles of fuel
> > > > conditioner.  Oh, and with the new 6.0L electronically controlled
> > >
> > > diesel, if
> > >
> > > > you decide to use a fuel conditioner, "more is NOT better".  Raising
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > > > flash point of the fuel too far will play havoc with proper
> > >
> > > combustion.
> > >
> > > > We had some initial growing pains with the new 6.0L Diesel, but the
> > >
> > > reports
> > >
> > > > I'm seeing lately say that the late 2003 and 2004 units are top
> > >
> > > drawer.
> > >
> > > > Dan Bodnar
> > > > SV QOL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Michael
> > >
> > > Meltzer
> > >
> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 9:46 PM
> > > > To: sanderico at earthlink.net; The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] RE: Michael's Diesel #1 and #2
> > > >
> > > > That nice to know, under a little knowage is dangerous I heard that
> > >
> > > use
> > >
> > > > Kerosene can be use up to 20% in the winter, also almost
> > > > anything can go into a disel engine, like bio-disel, made from used
> > >
> > > frechfry
> > >
> > > > oil :-)
> > > >
> > > > MJM
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Rik Sandberg" <sanderico at earthlink.net>
> > > > To: <kroposki at innova.net>; "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 9:54 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] RE: Michael's Diesel #1 and #2
> > > >
> > > > > Ed,
> > > > >
> > > > > #1 fuel oil and kerosene are not the same thing. Kerosene is more
> > > >
> > > > "refined"
> > > >
> > > > > than #1 oil. #3 fuel oil is an even heavier oil than #2. I think
> > >
> > > they use
> > >
> > > > it
> > > >
> > > > > for firing funaces (like asphalt plants) and things, industrial
> > >
> > > stuff more
> > >
> > > > > down south than up around here. It's heavy enough that you have to
> > >
> > > warm it
> > >
> > > > up
> > > >
> > > > > before it will light easily. Not an expert on this though :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > I did run across a guy from down south a few years ago that claimed
> > >
> > > to be
> > >
> > > > > using #3 oil in the truck he was driving. It was about -20 F that
> > >
> > > night
> > >
> > > > and I
> > > >
> > > > > stopped to help him as his truck was froze up (fuel gelled) on the
> > >
> > > side of
> > >
> > > > > I-94. Poor bastard was out in that shit in nothing but a light
> > >
> > > jacket and
> > >
> > > > a
> > > >
> > > > > t-shirt. He was, to say the least, happy to see me. I would imagine
> > >
> > > that
> > >
> > > > they
> > > >
> > > > > had to drain whatever fuel was in that truck and start over with all
> > >
> > > new,
> > >
> > > > > lighter fuel before that truck would ever go anywhere again before
> > >
> > > spring.
> > >
> > > > I
> > > >
> > > > > think he learned that some of the things you can get away with down
> > >
> > > south,
> > >
> > > > > won't get you very far up here when it gets cold. Up here, we've got
> > >
> > > real
> > >
> > > > > honest to God.......COLD!!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Rik
> > > > >
> > > > > On 12/08/2003 08:16 pm, you wrote:
> > > > > > KEROSENE!   What is # 3 used for? and yes there is a #3.  Hey guys
> > >
> > > help
> > >
> > > > > > Rummy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >                                                            Ed K
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Michael's Diesel #1 and #2
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've always just known it as #1.
> > > > > >
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