[Rhodes22-list] trim rings
John Tonjes
johntonjes@earthlink.net
Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:37:23 -0500
Roger,
Obviously the age of your hull makes your ports different than mine. The
trim ring fits on the inside, in the cabin and simply covers up the
hole. It's kinda what baseboard trim does in your house.
I replaced a port two years ago because of hail damage. I can honestly
tell you that the force of a hurricane wouldn't have removed the port.
The procedure for removing a properly seated port is quite time
consuming and will give you a whole new respect for marine grade
silicone. It involves using wooden shims and sharp knives to cut the
sealant loose. As for something coming over the bow and punching hole in
the port, you have better odds of it putting a hole in the hull.
The hail stones that knocked out the port were baseball size stones, not
your everyday falling from the sky stuff.
I commend you for being prepared, but common sense has to prevail at
some point and time. Being out in the kind of seas you are suggesting
that could knock a port out isn't prudent. I guess if I'm that stupid,
and a port gets knocked out, then I deserve what comes. Time to start
dinking and head for shore.
Rummy
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 1:08 PM
To: kroposki@innova.net; The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] trim rings
Ed,
No, I have not blown out a port - yet! But, I have taken green water
over the bow on several occasions & seen/felt the kind of forces
involved with this rapidly moving stream of water. There is no doubt in
my mind that it's capable of stripping those wood screws right out of
the fiberglass & blowing the port out.
Hey, Ed, we're all adults here. It's OK if anyone wants to install
their ports in decorative mode. But, if someone is going to install or
tolerate a built-in weak point; then, they should at least be well aware
that their boat has a glass jaw & the circumstances which might cause it
to fail. It's perfectly valid to manage the weakness by avoiding that
part of the operating envelope.
Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kroposki" <kroposki@innova.net>
To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 10:03 AM
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] trim rings
> Roger,
> After reading this discussion and Stan's reply, I have a
> question. I know that you sail on the Great Lakes (former home of the
> Edmond Fitzgerald). And you said that you sail hard. The question is
> this, have you blown out a port?
> Ed K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:36 AM
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Robert & Roger: - trim rings
>
> Rummy,
>
> You are both right & wrong re the structural value of the trim ring.
> If the trim ring is installed like it was originally on Marc's boat,
> in what I will
> call "decorative mode"; then, you are correct, it contributes no
> structural
> strength. However, if the trim ring is incorporated into a
thru-bolted
> sandwich structure as per the procedure in my FAQ; then, it becomes an
> integral part of a structural system that is conservatively estimated
to
> be
> about 100 times as strong as the port is in decorative mode. This
extra
> strength would only be important in heavy weather situations. If the
> boat
> is only sailed in protected waters & fair weather; then, the strength
of
> the
> port will probably never be tested. There are enough things that can
go
> crooked on a cruise & I like to sail my R-22 hard. I hate to install
> systems or gear on my boat that I have to baby & always be careful
about
> because of a built-in "gotcha". Of course, I also carry several
precut
> pieces of plywood with a rubber gasket glued on one side & thru bolts
to
> cover or plug a blown out port. Everybody uses their R-22 differently
I
> guess.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Tonjes" <johntonjes@earthlink.net>
> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 6:49 AM
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Robert & Roger: - trim rings
>
>
> > Marc,
> > The trim ring on the interior is just that, a trim ring. It has NO
> > structural value. Proper caulking and using the proper screws to
> attach
> > the port on the outside is all you need to do. The trim ring is held
> in
> > place with caulking.
> >
> > Rummy
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org
> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Roger
> > Pihlaja
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:14 PM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Robert & Roger: - trim rings
> >
> >
> > Marc,
> >
> > It all depends upon how & where you intend to use your R-22. If you
> are
> > ever out in heavy weather & take a good solid wave into those ports
> the
> > way they were installed; then, they will almost certainly blow out.
> You
> > would be amazed how much water will get below thru even one blown
> > out port in heavy weather! A seaworthy installation would always be
> > thru bolted as per my description in the FAQ. You're a big boy &
> > you can
> do
> > it however you wish, but remember you were advised on the correct
> > way
> to
> > do the job.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Karen Fiske / Marc Beroz" <kfiske@erols.com>
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 4:05 PM
> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Robert & Roger: - trim rings
> >
> >
> > > Robert:
> > > The process so far has been painless. One port had been installed
> with
> >
> > > silicone & popped right off. The other was had some type of
> > > adhesive caulking & took just a bit more time to free. Both ports
> > > were held
> in
> > place
> > > by 10 screws that went through the flange of the port into the
> > > fiberglass skin (cabin side). These screws were about 3/4" long &
> only
> >
> > > went through
> > the
> > > inner skin of the cabin wall. There was no foam or wood between
> > > the inner
> > &
> > > outer cabin skins. There was a narrow band of caulking where the
> port
> > spigot
> > > passed through the outer cabin wall.
> > >
> > > I removed the screws and pulled the ports out. Then I just had to
> lift
> >
> > > the trim rings off (only held in place by silicone or caulk). Took
> > > much more time to clean the caulking off the ports & fiberglass
> skin
> > > than to do anything else.
> > >
> > > Beckson has installation instructions at
> > > www.beckson.com/installport.html
> > >
> > > Roger:
> > > Thanks for the link. Beckson's website describes installing trim
> rings
> >
> > > either with flush mount barrel nuts through the trim rings or just
> > > using silicone with no fasteners through the rings. The latter is
> > > certainly
> > easier
> > > & is what my prior installation was, - but it does not seem to be
> > > a very ship-shape way to do things. At this point I'm either going
> > > to use
> > silicone
> > > only or use silicone with pan head screws through the trim rings
> > > & outer skin to hold them in place. I do have any wood or foam
> > > filler between the
> > 2
> > > fiberglass skins & am not planning to put any in. I 'd like to
> > > re-install the rings as GB had done it originally (without
> fasteners)
> > > but I wonder
> > how
> > > I can get a good silicone seal between the ring & fiberglass
> > > surface doing it this way. Apparently both GB & Beckson didn't see
> > > it as a problem so maybe I'm just fretting over nothing. Marc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> > _________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
>
> _________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
> _________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
_________________________________________________
Use Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list