[Rhodes22-list] Tight Turns To Port With The Wind Astern

[Roger Pihlaja]

Saroj,

As long as the kick-up rudder blade is fully down, you should be able to put
the rudder tiller over to full lock in one direction & the outboard motor
tiller to full lock in the other direction without any interference between
the rudder blade & the prop.  At least I can do this on Dynamic Equilbrium.
I would be very surprised if all R-22's were not setup this way because, if
there was potential interference with the rudder blade in its normal fully
down position; then, that would be a hidden disaster just waiting to happen.
Interference could damage the rudder blade & cause the shear pin on the prop
to fail, probably just at the worst possible moment.  This would be a real
design flaw because both mechanisms are moving within their normal range of
travel & are not interlocked to prevent this reverse movement.  Thus, it
would be considered a major engineering design mistake if it were possible
to have interference.  NOTE: If the kick-up rudder blade is not fully down;
then, there is most definitely a full lock interference problem between the
rudder blade & the prop.

By the way, you may want to kneel on the cockpit seat & hang onto something
the 1st time you try this manuever.  The boat will turn as fast as a
dodge-em car at the carnival & you need to be prepared to straighten out the
tiller & motor & shift into neutral at the completion of the turn.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

----- Original Message -----
From: "Saroj" <saroj@pathfind.net>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Tight Turns To Port With The Wind Astern


> Roger,
>
> I may not be following you correctly, but if I did this, my rudder would
get
> hit by the motor prop blade and chewed up.  What am I missing?
>
> (Thought I'd ask in case I ever find myself in this situation.)
>
> I ditto you in docking the boat with lines instead of the motor.
>
> Thanks,
> Saroj
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402@centurytel.net>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 7:02 AM
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Tight Turns To Port With The Wind Astern
>
>
> > David,
> >
> > Sorry to say this, but it sounds to me like your docking technique may
> have
> > contributed to your engine failure.  Repeatedly shifting from
> > forward-reverse-forward is very hard on an engine.  It's also a very
> > difficult way to turn a boat around, sort of the technique of last
resort.
> > However, it sounds like you have one of the most docking difficult
> > situations; strong wind astern, right hand prop, & tight turn to port
into
> a
> > narrow slip - YUCK!  Dynamic Equilibrium can make this turn under these
> > conditions in about 1.5 - 2 boatlengths by putting the rudder tiller
hard
> > over to starboard & the engine tiller hard over to port with the engine
at
> > full throttle in reverse.  Please note that you will have to disconnect
> your
> > rudder to motor steering linkage in order to perform this maneuver.  The
> > boat would need to be traveling at a starting velocity of about 3 knots
> > forward in order to pull this maneuver off.  So, your situation sounds
> like
> > it's right on the ragged edge of the performance envelope.  Before you
try
> > this, make sure you have done everything possible to reduce your
windage,
> > particularly at the bow.  Remember that you must maintain forward
velocity
> > in order to have any steering control.  Although it can be daunting in a
> > crowded marina with the wind howling, if you are going to attempt this
> kind
> > of turn; then, this is not the time to be timid.  I think I would setup
> some
> > fenders for marker buoys out in open water & practice this maneuver
before
> > trying it in the marina.  I know this manuever sounds radical, but try
it.
> > You may get to like it & it will be a whole lot easier on your engine.
> >
> > You might consider finding a different slip for next season.  For
example,
> a
> > slip right across from you would be better.  A tight turn to starboard
in
> > this situation is much easier than to port.
> >
> > If it were my boat & I were being more cautious, I think I would pull up
> to
> > the end of the finger pier, port side to the pier.  I would either put
out
> > fenders on the port side amidships or mount a suitable bumper on the
> corner
> > of my pier.  I would loosely tie off amidships & use a bow line to warp
> the
> > bow around into the slip.  No muss - no fuss.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Keyes, David" <dkeyes@velaw.com>
> > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 1:29 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Small temporary replacement motor; Yamaha
9.9
> > accident
> >
> >
> > > Rik--thanks for your information about the Evinrude 4.5.  Do you link
it
> > > with the tiller, or are you doing tight turning with one hand on the
> > tiller
> > > and one on the motor?
> > >
> > > Ed--The electric trolling motor sounds interesting, and I will look at
> > them
> > > for temporary use--if the power is enough whils still being light,
> simple
> > > and reasonably economical.   Not being a fisher, I have never seen
one.
> > >
> > > Yamaha 9.9 experiences--I am on a large lake, but the winds can easily
> be
> > > steady at 25-30 miles per hour, winds howling through the spars and
> > rigging
> > > of the boats tied at dock, with heavier gusts, blowing onshore towards
a
> > > rocky coast just about two boat lengths past my slip as I have to
return
> > by
> > > making a 90-degree sharp turn to port into a narrow slip (10 feet
wide,
> > > probably, no more), when the "alley way" down between the boats before
I
> > > make my turn is no more than about two boat lengths.  I have to
> alternate
> > > between forward (at minimum idle speed) and neutral (mostly neutral)
not
> > to
> > > be coming in too fast, and then have to alternate forward, neutral and
> > > reverse just to kick the stern around and turn sharply enough into the
> > slip.
> > > Leaving the dock to go out on the lake can be the reverse of this
> > situation.
> > > In the summers, the wind blows offshore, and everything is easier.
> > >
> > > My experience with the Yamaha 9.9 over the past year and one-half has
> been
> > > that it can maneuver successfully the above challenges (when the gears
> and
> > > throttle don't jam as they did in November, first into reverse
rocketing
> > > towards the sterns and motors of the boats behind me after I had
almost
> > made
> > > it into my slip but had to reverse due to being blown too much to
> > starboard
> > > to enter the slip properly), and in the nick of time forceably hitting
> > > forward and rocketing into the concrete and steel part of the dock
> between
> > > the inner-most slip and the rocky shore).  However, no outboard motor
on
> a
> > > sailboat, set off as it is to one side of the rudder, seems to give
the
> > > steering maneuverabilty for tight turns of a motor boat or a larger
> > sailboat
> > > with an inboard motor.  Of course in no wind or very light winds, I
can
> go
> > > in and out perfectly and think I finally have the technique figured
out.
> > > Even in stronger winds, if not blowing directly onshore, docking
> sometimes
> > > works out just right, as if I were a skilled master at this.  But some
> > > owners tell me that they will not take their boats out at all if there
> is
> > a
> > > strong onshore wind--and I may listen to them next time.
> > >
> > > I don't get the full benefit of the 9.9 heading out of close quarters
> into
> > > open waters, where I could open to full throttle.  This is because I
> don't
> > > feel that the steering is stable enough at full speed using the R22
> tiller
> > > linkage.  The motor is at that time either connected to the tiller,
> which
> > > doubles the turning torque (sailboat rudder plus motor steering) or,
> more
> > > normally, is disconnected by removing the pin to let the tiller do all
> the
> > > steering but relying on the motor to stay put by itself in a straight
> > > position (requiring proper advance adjustment of a screw to control
> effort
> > > needed to turn the motor).  To avoid sudden swerving one way or the
> other,
> > I
> > > slow down to, say, half throttle or less anyway, where everything is
> fine.
> > > So I am not ever using the full power of the 9.9.  In theory, though,
it
> > > could come in handy in a bad storm.
> > >
> > > If I were doing everything again, I would buy a motor of half the
power
> > but
> > > try to connect it to the tiller and move the controls there--like
Stan's
> > 9.9
> > > setup--because, although I have not tried the other way, it just seems
> > safer
> > > and more efficient to have control in one place and be able to look
> > forward
> > > under motor instead of fooling around bent over the stern and trying
to
> > > figure out what to do as between the motor steering and the
> tiller/rudder
> > > steering. Having said that, I would have been a lot better off in
> November
> > > if I had direct controls on the motor that I could get to, rather than
> > > jammed controls connected by cable on the tiller.  While the fault may
> > have
> > > been with the motor, if I were guessing, I would think that I
increased
> > > speed too much in reverse trying to avoid hitting the dock on the
> > starboard
> > > side of my slip, and almost immediately had to (in high wind) avoid a
> > > collision to stern with boats behind.  I probably (but this is just a
> > > guess--it all happened so fast) tried to force the gear shift into
> forward
> > > while still not having slowed the throttle to neutral.  There is
> probably
> > a
> > > safety feature preventing switching gears except at idle or low speed.
> By
> > > forcing the motor into forward I probably jammed or bent cable
> connectors
> > > where they enter the gear area on the motor.  Once that happened, I
was
> > > stuck in forward and at high speed.  Welcome to the dock ahead.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Kroposki [mailto:kroposki@innova.net]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:20 PM
> > > To: 'The Rhodes 22 mail list'
> > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Small temporary replacement motor
> > >
> > >
> > > David,
> > >        Did you catch the line in Rik's email about Stan using an
> > > electric trolling motor?
> > >              Ed K
> > >
> > >
> > >
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