[ham] Re: [Rhodes22-list] Taxes & Politics

Michael Meltzer mjm@michaelmeltzer.com
Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:03:31 -0500 

no fort mead stuff for me, my sister wanted to get me in their but they want in their but it would have taken to long(they would
have to warehouse me for 6 months waiting on the background) and they pay shit. Did get an offer for the sky marshals but they are
paying shit also, FAA is going to blow that program, only people who will take the job can not find work elsewhere.

I am a plumber :-) system/network/app programmer, real-time systems programmer in UNIX, ticker feeds(40,000 transactions per second
in, 10 times that out to the clients), smart executions/routing systems, fount office and back office. most of my work is using firm
money or hedge funds that are trading without a humans. they call it "black box" trading. Alot of my work is taking the ideas from
"PHD's" who have a better way to trade the market and giving them the subport to make it happen.

MJM




----- Original Message -----
From: "Saroj" <saroj@pathfind.net>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [ham] Re: [Rhodes22-list] Taxes & Politics


> Michael,
>
> What is it you do exactly?
>
> (or is it top secret?)
>
> Saroj
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Meltzer" <mjm@michaelmeltzer.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 12:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [ham] Re: [Rhodes22-list] Taxes & Politics
>
>
> > my job is very tied to wall street trading and the firms, hedge funds and
> street firms, about 70% in ny/north jersey, southern ct,
> > 10% Chicago, 5 % phila, 5% Boston, 5% la, and the rest everywhere else.
> make it hard to move out of the area for a warmer place :-)
> >
> > BTW the good news, I got a 6 months exception from the current firm,
> happened right after an interview :-) my have been the suit :-)
> >
> > MJM
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Wally Buck" <tnrhodey@hotmail.com>
> > To: <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 10:33 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ham] Re: [Rhodes22-list] Taxes & Politics
> >
> >
> > > MJM,
> > >
> > > I hope you find a new job and get the hell out of there. I have heard
> you
> > > rule out the south before but I don't pay any state income tax or wages.
> > >
> > > Wally
> > >
> > > >>At 06:32 PM 1/17/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >>I am here :-)
> > > >>
> > > >>lets see were I am in this debate.
> > > >>
> > > >>Section 1:
> > > >>I live in CT, the top state to get back the least tax dollars/services
> on
> > > >>taxes paid(per cap)
> > > >>I live in Fairfield county, the county to get back the least tax
> > > >>dollars/services on taxes paid(per cap) in ct
> > > >>I live in Westport, second only to bill in Greenwich, at the town
> level
> > > >>200%+ the USA cost of living average.
> > > >>
> > > >>Bottom line, at the fed/state/county level I see the least return on
> tax
> > > >>dollars and in fact fund everyone else,
> > > >>if a nuke was to go off in town, everyone taxes in the
> county/state/nation
> > > >>would go up.
> > > >>
> > > >>I pay my own health insurance, even paying top dollar the
> town/state/fed
> > > >>employs plan in better, infact I would have better coverage
> > > >>if I was on welfare.
> > > >>Like slim I pay my own SSI, both sides.
> > > >>I also pay unemployment insurance, been told I never will be able to
> > > >>collect.
> > > >>I pay fee to set up and maintain my retirement plain.
> > > >>I pay fee to my account(and their not cheap) to do my taxes.  I have
> to it
> > > >>would cost more in taxes if I did not.
> > > >>I can not have a simple will, that tax thing again, lawyers want 3000+
> to
> > > >>draw it up.
> > > >>The tax code does effect how my family lives their life, as in day to
> day
> > > >>actions.
> > > >>Most of the town is experts in the tax code, why should I have to live
> my
> > > >>life that way ?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>I do think Milton is right, Almost by definition. Kind of like the
> quote
> > > >>"you ever notice that their always enough news every day to
> > > >>fill a news paper", I do think we are getting to the point of "ternary
> of
> > > >>democracy",  to maintain power people are using class
> > > >>warfare tactics, passing laws that only effect others. In one breath
> > > >>"Social Security insurance" in a lock box, in the next "Cut
> > > >>payroll taxes (which are the SSI taxes)". I believe that to solve the
> ssi
> > > >>problem it will be taken a taken away from me and my
> > > >>family, to become an older welfare program. The Marjory of voters will
> > > >>befits that way.
> > > >>
> > > >>My problem is that it never lets up,  every time I try around someone
> > > >>after my wallet, lets see this week, bloomberg for ny comuter
> > > >>tax(selling it for high eraners), ct for an increase to the cig tax(it
> > > >>good for you), town for bonding for school construction(the
> > > >>state backed out of it share, tight budget westport can adfordit). The
> > > >>only choice anyone every give me it to cut and run, do like
> > > >>it move. never a thankyou. Even with that thier are still places I can
> not
> > > >>live or work in the area. Yep I in a foul mood.
> > > >>
> > > >>a couple of random thought:
> > > >>why is it the worst price from doctor is paying cash?
> > > >>why has it become being a vitims is now a lotory? less 100 victims of
> wtc
> > > >>have settled, thier waiting on the law suits.
> > > >>how did it become that value of human life is unlimited?
> > > >>the world only victims now, lawers doing risk tranfers, Tv ads for any
> > > >>stuiped thing "call 1800 lawwer", with high stacks payoffs.
> > > >>
> > > >>MJM
> > > >>
> > > >>Never did work in the CO spending cap
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>----- Original Message -----
> > > >>From: "Alex Bell" <alexbell@coastalnet.com>
> > > >>To: <wwrhodes@rhodes22.com>; "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > >><rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > > >>Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 3:25 PM
> > > >>Subject: [ham] Re: [Rhodes22-list] Taxes & Politics
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> > Stan,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The only thing I would agree with your commentary is that there's a
> lot
> > > >> > of simplistic logic going on.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I am not going to comment on and on about this since I have been
> > > >> > chastised in the past for any political view I expressed in joke
> form.
> > > >> > It amazes me that this joke sent by Paul, with a disclaimer
> attached to
> > > >> > boot, would end up becoming a platform for you to express your
> > > >>political
> > > >> > views. I think you should keep your commentary to the boats you
> build.
> > > >> > If the rest of us are supposed to adhere to some kind of non
> political
> > > >> > agenda here, then the least you could do would be to refrain from
> > > >> > expousing your views.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > As to debt, I don't want to pay off someone else's debts. I have
> plenty
> > > >> > of my own, thank you. I worked for mine. I started out delivering
> > > >> > telegrams on a bicycle, worked on the L&N Railroad section gang,  a
> > > >> > spring factory, and road grader manufacturer as a welders helper
> before
> > > >> > my education assisted me in better paying jobs. Like Brad said, I
> am
> > > >>not
> > > >> > going to apologize for what I've accumulated over the years.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Someone commented on the fabled double tax and capital gains tax. I
> > > >> > suppose some people might feel that these taxes affect only the
> rich.
> > > >> > But it affects anyone who might want to sell a piece of property,
> only
> > > >> > to find that if sold, it would cost them dearly. How many people
> own
> > > >> > some kind of Mutual Fund? We had some that lost 40% of their value,
> but
> > > >> > we had to pay capital gains on them. Aint that great?
> > > >> >
> > > >> >  When times are tough, we cut back on spending. Something the
> > > >>government
> > > >> > programs don't seem to do. I'm tired of the guilt trips people lay
> on
> > > >>us
> > > >> > because we want to keep more of our money. I find myself paying
> taxes
> > > >>on
> > > >> > money I saved and put away once, and it's getting old. I've left
> the
> > > >> > list before because of political discussions, but I think I'll
> stick
> > > >> > around and stir the pot for a change. Of all people, I have
> OPINIONS.
> > > >>If
> > > >> > someone encourages me, I will be able to supply a full diatribe. So
> > > >> > there.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > To Wally, I say, good job in questioning the written word. You are
> a
> > > >> > bright light in a dim day.
> > > >> > To RIK, he don't apologize for you comments. That first comment was
> > > >>just
> > > >> > not necessary. The second one was better.
> > > >> > To MJM, hey where are you?
> > > >> > To Brad, gee, I wish I had said that. But then I'm not quite as
> well
> > > >> > off. But I'm not full of envy. Hard work pays off...twice.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Alex
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > General Boats wrote:
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > With the same caveat that Paul posted, here is a reply from the
> left.
> > > >>  Don't
> > > >> > > read it if it moves you to leave the list.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Would it only be so simple as the professor from SD makes it.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Just three minor complications -  many more can be contributed by
> > > >>musch wiser
> > > >> > > economists..
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > a)   50,000,000 of us do not make enough to pay taxes no matter
> how
> > > >>hard we
> > > >> > > work - we are just not that smart. So Tax cuts are not a neutral
> > > >>issue.  Tax
> > > >> > > cuts invariably mean tax increases for us. With less revenues,
> > > >>services are
> > > >> > > diminished.  Cost of education rises. (That is a very costly
> error -
> > > >>the free
> > > >> > > GI educational bill of WW 2 got the US economy roaring).  States
> find
> > > >> > > themselves in financial holes and have to make up the shortfalls
> with
> > > >>all sorts
> > > >> > > of increases like higher sales taxes (which have the same rate no
> > > >>matter what
> > > >> > > your income), higher real estate taxes - perhaps gas
> taxes -anything
> > > >>to raise
> > > >> > > moneys the income tax cuts have taken from them. So tax cuts are
> a
> > > >>double edge
> > > >> > > sword that not only help those who need help the least, but at
> the
> > > >>same time
> > > >> > > hurt those who need help the most. I know some of you chafe at
> the
> > > >>idea of
> > > >> > > someone getting something for nothing.  But those who take
> advantage
> > > >>of any
> > > >> > > good nature the government shows are in the minority of good
> > > >>Americans and good
> > > >> > > policing can wean the freeloaders out. Overkill sooner or later
> leads
> > > >>to
> > > >> > > overthrow.   The funny thing about tax cuts is that the very
> wealthy
> > > >>think they
> > > >> > > are a mistake.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > b)   If you step back and see how the rich got rich, with the
> > > >>exception of
> > > >> > > those who stole it and then bought their way in and those who
> > > >>contributed
> > > >> > > nothing but happen to be born in the right circle, the majority
> made
> > > >>it the
> > > >> > > hard way, they worked for it.  But they were only able to succeed
> > > >>because they
> > > >> > > had the invaluable assistance of the police man and fireman and
> > > >>milkman (and in
> > > >> > > my day the iceman) and hosts of others that were needed to create
> the
> > > >> > > environment that made the accumulation of wealth possible in the
> > > >>first place.
> > > >> > > Part of any money due back the high end is really to be shared
> with
> > > >>their
> > > >> > > silent partners.  President Roosevelt understood this and pulled
> the
> > > >>country
> > > >> > > out of a depression most of you have no inkling of.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > c)   The Baltimore Sun ran an editorial pointing out that while
> our
> > > >>current
> > > >> > > leader says we should cut taxes because it is their own money we
> are
> > > >>giving
> > > >> > > back to them, he skips saying it is also their debt.  Yet it was
> and
> > > >>is the
> > > >> > > very creating of the debt that paved the way for the accumulation
> of
> > > >>wealth.
> > > >> > > But somehow when it comes to who should pay for the debt, that
> > > >>becomes a non
> > > >> > > progressive burden.  We are taught that when we have money we
> should
> > > >>pay off
> > > >> > > our debts and instead our leaders cut taxes - all the interest
> that
> > > >>could have
> > > >> > > been saved could have paid for the next war.  What a shame.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Since no one is reading this I'll stop here.  But for the
> simplistic
> > > >>logic of
> > > >> > > our good professor, there are many other avenues of challenge.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > stan/gbi
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Rik Sandberg wrote:
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > Paul,
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > Yeah, I printed that one out. Think I'll frame it and hang it
> on
> > > >>the wall
> > > >> > > > in my office. We had that happen in Minnesota the last couple
> of
> > > >>years when
> > > >> > > > they did a sales tax rebate. People that were living off
> welfare or
> > > >>other
> > > >> > > > gov't programs were all bitching 'cause they didn't get any
> money
> > > >>back.
> > > >> > > > It's amazing how they can translate paying nothing into less of
> a
> > > >>benefit
> > > >> > > > to them than paying less is to someone else. To top it off, it
> seem
> > > >>there
> > > >> > > > really is a fool born every minute, so there's a lot of them
> out
> > > >>there. :-)
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > Rik
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > At 08:00 AM 1/15/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >> > > > >Before you read this, it is a commentary on taxes & politics.
> It
> > > >>is just
> > > >> > > > >one guy's opinion (not even necessarily mine) so don't go
> crazy
> > > >>with this
> > > >> > > > >& start a war.  If you don't like this kind of stuff, delete
> it
> > > >>now and
> > > >> > > > >don't read it. - Paul
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >A VERY simple way to understand the tax laws. Read on -- it
> does
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >make you think!!
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose
> that
> > > >>every
> > > >> > > > >day,
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100.
> If
> > > >>they
> > > >> > > > >paid
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something
> like
> > > >>this:
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >The first four men -- the poorest -- would pay nothing; the
> fifth
> > > >>would
> > > >> > > > >pay
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >$1, the sixth would pay $3, the seventh $7, the eighth $12,
> the
> > > >>ninth
> > > >> > > > >$18,
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >and the tenth man -- the richest -- would pay $59.
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >That's what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the
> > > >>restaurant
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement -- until
> one
> > > >>day,
> > > >> > > > >the
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >owner threw them a curve (in tax language a tax cut).
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going
> to
> > > >>reduce
> > > >> > > > >the
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >cost of your daily meal by $20." So now dinner for the ten
> only
> > > >>cost
> > > >> > > > >$80.00.
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our
> taxes.
> > > >>So the
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free.
> But
> > > >>what
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >about the other six -- the paying customers? How could they
> divvy
> > > >>up the
> > > >> > > > >$20
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >windfall so that everyone would get his "fair share?"
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if
> they
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >subtracted that from everybody's share, Then the fifth man and
> the
> > > >>sixth
> > > >> > > > >man
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >would end up being PAID to eat their meal. So the restaurant
> owner
> > > >> > > > >suggested
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >that it
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same
> > > >>amount, and
> > > >> > > > >he
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so the
> > > >>fifth man
> > > >> > > > >paid
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the
> eighth
> > > >>paid
> > > >> > > > >$9,
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >the ninth paid $12, leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52
> > > >>instead of
> > > >> > > > >his
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >earlier $59.
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four
> > > >>continued
> > > >> > > > >to
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began
> to
> > > >>compare
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >their savings. "I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared
> the
> > > >>sixth
> > > >> > > > >man,
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >but he, (pointing to the tenth) got $7!". "Yeah, that's
> right,"
> > > >>exclaimed
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >the fifth man, "I only saved a dollar, too, ........It's
> unfair
> > > >>that he
> > > >> > > > >got
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >seven times more than me!". That's true!" shouted the seventh
> man,
> > > >>why
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >should he get $7 back when I got only $2?" The wealthy get all
> the
> > > >> > > > >breaks!".
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "We
> didn't
> > > >>get
> > > >> > > > >anything
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >at all.  The system exploits the poor!"
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next
> night
> > > >>he
> > > >> > > > >didn't
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him.
> But
> > > >>when it
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >came time to pay the bill, they discovered, a little late what
> was
> > > >>very
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >important. They were FIFTY TWO DOLLARS short of paying the
> bill!
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >Imagine that!
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >And that, boys and girls, journalists and college instructors,
> is
> > > >>how the
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the
> > > >>most
> > > >> > > > >benefit
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being
> > > >>wealthy,
> > > >> > > > >and
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >they just may not show up at the table anymore. Where would
> that
> > > >>leave
> > > >> > > > >the
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >rest?
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >Unfortunately, most taxing authorities anywhere cannot seem to
> > > >>grasp this
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >rather straight-forward logic!
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >T. Davies
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >Professor of Accounting &Chair,
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >Division of Accounting and Business Law
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >The University of South Dakota
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >School of Business
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >========================
> > > >> > > > >Paul Grandholm
> > > >> > > > >C&H Technology
> > > >> > > > >GrandPower Components Div.
> > > >> > > > >========================
> > > >> > > > >_________________________________________________
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> > > >> > > >
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