[Rhodes22-list] Politics: Taxes
brad haslett
flybrad@yahoo.com
Sat, 25 Jan 2003 13:38:26 -0800 (PST)
Bill,
Don't you just love pork barrel spending? Now that
Frist is Senate Majority leader we Tennesseans should
see more of it coming our way. The Interstate system
was of course started under Eisenhower who got the
idea from the Autobahn. Yes, it was built from
general revenues. Many of the major airports and most
of the smaller ones were originally military
installations, built from general revenue funds. In
theory, taxes associated with those transportation
modes are supposed to support those activities but
these "funds" are borrowed to support the general
revenue fund and vice a versa. Most of us that sail
on inland lakes do so on TVA sponsored projects, paid
for from general revenue funds, not user fees. Bill's
point, and yours by implication, is well taken;
whether a given tax is a good one or not depends on
your direct benefit. My point (and there has been a
consistant point to all this dialogue) is that
programs get started to address a specific problem and
then never get re-visited to see if they're still
needed or whether they work. When someone suggests
that we take a second look then they are painted with
a broad brush of cruel, heartless, wrong values, etc.
Example: my parents are retired on social security
and frankly it isn't enough. I pay the maximum social
security tax each year and it doesn't cover half their
benefits. What's the solution? Double the tax? My
personal solution is to pay their utility bills, give
them a truck I don't need, stock their fridge when I'm
home. But if I make a public statement like "social
security is broken and can't be sustained at its
current level" am I suddenly an insensitive jerk or a
realist? Pick your program, there are thousands that
don't work , aren't needed, or can't be sustained
forever at the current level of funding. My favorite
is crop subsidies. When I critique social welfare
programs I'm not speaking of just those aimed at the
poor. I hate corporate welfare as well (my employer
included).
Its interesting that some on the list choose a label
for themselves. That's fine, I choose not to. Most
would label me a conservative. On fiscal issues I am,
on other's (school prayer, abortion, to name a few) I
am most definitely not. I vote mostly for the same
party but don't always. I love these debates because
it forces me to examine my own beliefs and either
continue to support them or change. This is a healthy
process for everyone that chooses to engage. In case
everyone forgot how this got started it was over how a
tax cut would be distributed. Nothing said these past
weeks have changed my opinion; those who paid in more
taxes should get more returned.
By the way, I think the Big Dig is a wonderful thing
for Boston I just regret having to pay for it from
Memphis.
Brad
--- Bill Effros <bill@effros.com> wrote:
> Brad,
>
> Don't believe everything you read on the back of a
> truck.
>
> Fuel taxes did not build the highway system.
> Airport taxes and fees did not
> build the airports.
>
> The following link will take you to the Senate
> Majority Leader's web site
> where he proudly boasts of how he and your other
> Senator from Tennessee
> managed to take $8.6 million out of the general
> treasury for the benefit of
> the Memphis airport.
>
> http://frist.senate.gov/press-item.cfm?id=183779
>
> They promise to get you more.
>
> This link describes how Michigan could find itself
> in a position where it
> has to repay $135 million worth of airport bonds
> because of the weakness of
> the American airline industry.
>
>
http://www.cdfa.net/cdfa/cdfanews.nsf/1.%20All%20Documents/63982F250534D5F38
> 6256C29005847B3
>
> Here's a link to a firm that structures
> transportation bonds repaid by sales
> taxes.
>
>
http://www.orrick.com/about/prtcarea/areas/PubFin_Trans.htm
>
> And then, of course, there's the "Big Dig" in Boston
> "Holding the Line" at
> $14.6 Billion.
>
> Taxation is far more complicated than bumper
> stickers would have you
> believe, and we all have a direct stake in
> understanding what is really
> going on here.
>
> Bill Effros
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "brad haslett" <flybrad@yahoo.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 1:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Taxes
>
>
> Bill,
>
> A couple of corrections are necessary. Airports are
> built from ADAP funds, federal excise taxes on jet
> fuel, landing fees, and airline ticket tax. One of
> the reasons the Air Traffic Control system is
> inefficient and airport delays are common is that
> the
> ADAP (airport development aid program) fund has been
> raided several times over the years to mask the
> social
> security deficit.
>
> Fuel taxes fund highways. Ever read those signs on
> the back of the trailers?
>
> Wars are expensive and the cost can sometimes carry
> over several generations. Thank goodness though
> that
> my father, five of his brothers, and millions of
> others chose to fight WW2. Now my son studies
> German
> as a second language instead of as his first.
>
> My fundamental values were shaped by growing up in a
> small farm town. If I grew up in a slum I'm sure
> they
> might be somewhat different. Long term social
> welfare
> programs have destroyed both places.
>
> Brad Haslett
> --- Bill Effros <bill@effros.com> wrote:
> > Every discussion about taxation boils down to an
> > attempt to convince others to pay more for
> projects
> > we favor than we will have to pay for projects
> they
> > favor. Many of the arguments are specious, and the
> > facts wrong. But, hey, all's fair when fighting
> over
> > money. Most people oppose any "welfare" that isn't
> > going to them.
> >
> > So, the pilot rails against sports stadiums built
> at
> > public expense, but has no problem with airports
> > built at public expense.
> >
> > And the truck driver opposes subsidies to
> railroads
> > and subways, but favors vast highway building
> > programs paid for with tax dollars.
> >
> > And the man who opposes "welfare" for others wants
> > to believe that the money he received as
> > "unemployment insurance" is in some other
> category,
> > because he personally contributed, at an earlier
> > time, all of the money he subsequently collected.
> > (As they used to say "t'aint so, McGhee".)
> >
> > And many people seem to favor war as a solution to
> a
> > multitude of problems. But no one seems willing to
> > discuss where the money will come from to fight
> > these wars. (Invariably we shift these costs to
> our
> > children, first by forcing them to fight the wars,
> > and subsequently by forcing them to repay the
> > monetary costs--with interest--which we have
> > borrowed because we are unwilling to pay these
> costs
> > ourselves.)
> >
> > People speak of wanting a "flat tax", but at the
> > same time they say they want to exempt dividend
> > income. These policies are mutually exclusive.
> >
> > Tax policy is complicated, and really quite
> > interesting. That's why this thread has endured
> for
> > so long. By our positions we reveal our
> fundamental
> > values, and how carefully we have considered them.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________
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>
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