[Rhodes22-list] Patriotism was Cost of Freedom.

Tue Jul 8 10:17:32 EDT 2003

I had never heard of Glurge, but it is a word that is certainly necessary.

There was an editorial in the times ( think) a couple of days ago - can't
remember who wrote it.  I wish I could say that I had thought of its thesis,
but I certainly embrace it.

The central argument was that patriotism has come to have 2 different
meanings.  One, a love of country that manifests itself in the belief that
criticism and dissent are wrong and unpatriotic.  

The other, which I ascribe to, is that patriotism is a love if the ideals
and concepts that the country is based upon. It follows then that criticism
and dissent of policies and acts that are believed to be counter to those
principles are acts of patriotism.

Certainly that still leaves plenty of room for argument as to what policies
are or are not counter to the founding principles, but I think it helps to
confine the discussion to the policies and not the character of the
participants.

Bringing all of this back to the Costs of Freedom glurge, it seems to me
that it's point was to take examples of the patriotism I believe in and use
it to support the other kind.

Just my opinion.

Bill Berner
191 South Broadway
Hastings on Hudson, NY  10706

v 914 478 2896
f 914 478 3856
e BBerner at optonline.net

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 5:20 PM
To: johntonjes at earthlink.net; The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] The cost of freedom.

Rummy,

I know you check.  So do I.  And sometimes I still forward glurge without
knowing it.  I think the main thing is having the new word for it so we can
categorize it quickly.  It takes too much time to debunk all the stuff that
is only sort of wrong.  

Most of us can figure out what the true parts are if someone just alerts us
to the fact that some of it isn't true.

I think you know my comments were not aimed at you.

Bill

----- Original Message ----- 
From: John Tonjes 
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list 
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] The cost of freedom.

Bill,
Actually, I did check with the urban legends site and there was nothing
about it in there. I have never heard of nor used snopes before. I will add
it to my credentials site.

Rummy

> [Original Message]
> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> To: <kroposki at innova.net>; The Rhodes 22 mail list
<rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Date: 7/5/2003 1:19:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] The cost of freedom.
>
> Ed,
>
> Yes, Rummy's email is glurge.  Go to snopes.com.  Type in "Declaration =
> of Independence signers" and Rummy's email will pop up.  They explain =
> how the history has been fudged, and how the central point has been =
> fabricated.
>
> In a nutshell, the fate that befell most of the signers did not happen =
> because they signed the piece of paper.  The declaration was a =
> declaration of treason from the British standpoint.  The signers became =
> "terrorists" from the British standpoint using popular 21st century =
> rhetoric.  From our current standpoint, Saddam Hussein's taped =
> declaration aired yesterday on Al Jazeera was an act of treason, people =
> attacking our troops are terrorists, and we say we are justified in =
> torturing enemy prisoners if we feel it will hasten the end of their =
> rebellion.=20
>
> We do not consider declarations of independence from us to be noble =
> statements of principle, nor do we admire the people responsible as =
> heroes. =20
>
> Glurge fudges the nuances, and alters history to fit--all with a patina =
> of happy face patriotism.  Thinking in this way can and has had bad =
> consequences for all of us. =20
>
> There are valid fundamentally different ways of looking at history and =
> resolving not to repeat mistakes.  We can learn from each other only if =
> we keep the discussion intellectually honest.  Glurge is, by definition, =
> dishonest.  That doesn't make the sender dishonest, as most senders are =
> unaware that what they are sending is not true.  But we all know how to =
> use this tool, and we all have an obligation to check things out before =
> sending them along.
>
> Bill Effros
>
>   =20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: Kroposki=20
> To: 'The Rhodes 22 mail list'=20
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 12:47 PM
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] The cost of freedom.
>
>
> Bill,
> Are you saying that Rummy's email is Glurge?  What is the
> citation that shows it is untrue?
>                       Ed K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 10:17 AM
> To: johntonjes at earthlink.net; The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] The cost of freedom.
>
> Glurge
>
> (Glurge is the sending of inspirational (often supposedly "true") tales
> that conceal much darker meanings than the uplifting moral lessons they
> purport to offer, and that undermine their messages by fabricating and
> distorting historical fact in the guise of offering a "true story."")
> --see snopes.com or glurge.com.
>
> Bill Effros
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: John Tonjes=20
> To: Rhodes org. owners list=20
> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 8:35 PM
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] The cost of freedom.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>    John Tonjes
>    [1]johntonjes at earthlink.net
>    Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
>
>
>
>      4TH OF JULY
>      Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the
>      Declaration of Independence?  Five signers were captured by the
>      British
>      as
>      traitors, and tortured before they died.  Twelve had their homes
>      ransacked
>      and burned.  Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army;
>      another
>      had two sons captured.
>      Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the
>      Revolutionary
>      War.
>      They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their
>      sacred
>      honor.
>      What kind of men were they?  Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists.
>      Eleven
>      were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men
>      of
>      means,
>      well educated, but they signed the Declaration of Independence
>      knowing
>      full
>      well that the penalty would be death if they were captured.  Carter
>      Braxton
>      of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his Ships swept from
>      the
>      seas by the British Navy.  He sold his home and properties to pay
>      his
>      debts,
>      and died in rags.  Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that
>      he
>      was
>      forced to move his family almost constantly.  He served in the
>      Congress
>      without pay, and his family was kept in hiding.  His possessions
>      were
>      taken
>      from him, and poverty was his reward.  Vandals or soldiers looted
>      the
>      properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward,
>      Ruttledge,
>      and Middleton.
>      At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that the
>      British
>      General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his
>      headquarters.
>      He
>      quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was
>      destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt.  Francis Lewis had his home
>      and
>      properties destroyed.  The enemy jailed
>      his wife, and she died within a few months.  John Hart was driven
>      from
>      his
>      wife's bedside as she was dying.  Their 13 children fled for theirl
>      lives.
>      His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste.  For more than a
>      year
>      he
>      lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead
>      and his
>      children vanished.  Some of us take these liberties so much for
>      granted,
>      but
>      we shouldn't.
>      So, take a few minutes while enjoying your 4th of July holiday and
>      silently
>      thank these patriots.  It's not much to ask for the price they
>      paid.
>      Remember: freedom is never free!  I hope you will show your support
>      by
>      sending this to as many people as you can, please.  It's time we
>      get the
>      word out that patriotism is NOT a sin, and the Fourth of July has
>      more
>      to it
>      than beer, picnics, and baseball.
>
> References
>
>    1. mailto:johntonjes at earthlink.net
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