[Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was (Stupid People Tricks)

[Steve]

Well, I can life without water as long as I have
Beer:-) and I like 7up in my bourbon.  I say it a next
generation problem:-) In reallity, everything should
be nuked and glowing orange by then:-)
Steve


--- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
> Steve & Rummy,
> 
> Look, I'll be the 1st to agree that double & triple
> engined muscle boats are
> one of the most glaring examples of conspicuous
> consumption & wretched
> excess in the world today.  But, they mostly run
> with 4-cycle engines & they
> run mostly in deep water, far from shore, & their
> population density is
> usually pretty low.  Small 2-cycle outboards & PWC's
> tend to be much more
> numerous, used near shore, in estuaries, small bays,
> rivers, etc.  In other
> words, the small 2-cycle marine engines tend to be
> emitting their pollution
> into the waters that are the most productive & most
> vulnerable in terms of
> fish spawning grounds, insect larvae, crustaceans,
> plant life, etc.  Make no
> mistake, there is some BAD SHIT in 2-cycle exhaust
> smoke & the oily film
> that these machines lay down on the water; materials
> like dioxins,
> tetrahydrofurans (THF's) & other materials that are
> biologically active at
> parts per billion concentration & also tend to
> bioconcentrate up the food
> chain.  Gentlemen, this is a really bad deal!
> 
> Hey guys, I'm a sailor, just like you.  I'm also a
> professional chemical
> engineer, not some tree hugging environmentalist. 
> I've seen the water
> quality & biological sampling data & the supporting
> analysis.  These reports
> have convinced me that marine 2-cycle engines are a
> problem.  Certainly the
> small, low use, 2-cycle outboards used on our R-22's
> are not the biggest
> contributor to the problem; BUT, they are part of
> the problem & not part of
> the solution.  It's counterproductive to point your
> finger at muscleboats &
> say those folks should be banned until your own
> house is in order.  The
> environmental threat from 2-cycle marine engine
> exhaust emissions is real &
> not going away any time soon.  Which side of this
> issue do you want to be
> on?
> 
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Alm" <salm at mn.rr.com>
> To: "Rhodes" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 2:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was
> (Stupid People Tricks)
> 
> 
> > Rummy, I'm with you.  The heavy machinery is a
> much bigger problem.  I
> doubt
> > I burn more than fifteen gallons a season.  It's a
> goddang blowboat for
> > chirstsake!  If they ban 2 cycles, I would hope
> that they would put a cap
> on
> > it--like over 25 or something.
> > Slim
> > P.S. You're partying with the wrong people.
> >
> > On 7/17/03 6:54 PM, "John Tonjes"
> <johntonjes at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Roger,
> > > If 2 cycle engines are outlawed, there are going
> to be a lot of unhappy
> > > loggers, tree trimmers, grass maintenance
> compamies and homeowners who
> use
> > > them for everything from blowing leaves to
> mowing the lawn. Personally,
> I
> > > would prefer to see the 1000 hp cigarette boats
> with blowers outlawed
> long
> > > before the 2 cycles are done in. I talked with a
> guy a few weeks ago at
> a
> > > party with just such a boat. He can go in excess
> of 100mph on the water.
> I
> > > didn't bother asking about fuel consumption, but
> he did mention he
> carried
> > > 110 gallons of high test.
> > >
> > > Rummy
> > >
> > >
> > >> [Original Message]
> > >> From: Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> > >> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >> Date: 7/17/2003 5:22:54 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was
> (Stupid People Tricks)
> > >>
> > >> Steve,
> > >>
> > >> Since 2-cycle engines are currently still legal
> to operate on most
> bodies
> > > of
> > >> water in the United States, everyone must
> decide for themselves what
> they
> > >> want to do re this issue.  Certainly, PWC's &
> large 2-cycle outboards
> > >> generate lots more pollution & waste much more
> fuel than the relatively
> > >> small & infrequently used outboards on our
> R-22's.  I realize replacing
> an
> > >> outboard engine is an expensive proposition.  I
> myself did not switch
> over
> > >> to 4-cycle engines overnight.  The 2-cycle
> Evinrude 6 came installed on
> > >> Dynamic Equilibrium when the boat was purchased
> in 1987 & we ran with
> that
> > >> engine for 9 years.  I replaced the 2-cycle
> Evinrude 6 on Dynamic
> > >> Equilibrium with the 4-cycle Honda 8 in 1996. 
> However, in that same
> > > year, I
> > >> converted the long shaft Evinrude 6 back to a
> standard length shaft &
> ran
> > >> the 2-cycle engine on our 10 foot inflatable
> sport dingy until 2000,
> when
> > > I
> > >> purchased the 4-cycle Honda 9.9.  I finally
> sold the 2-cycle Evinrude
> at a
> > >> yard sale in the summer of 2001.  By that
> point, the Evinrude was
> getting
> > > a
> > >> little tired & looked pretty scruffy, but it
> still ran reasonably well.
> > >>
> > >> The nearly 2X greater fuel consumption & more
> than 10X greater exhaust
> > >> emissions issues with 2-cycle marine engines
> are real & well
> documented.
> > >> Their continued use does not represent good
> stewardship of the planet.
> > > The
> > >> real question everyone must ask themselves is,
> "Do you want to be part
> of
> > >> the problem or part of the solution?"  Long
> term, I think 2-cycle
> marine
> > >> engines will either be saddled with so much
> emissions control
> technology
> > >> that the cost, simplicity, & weight advantages
> over 4-cycle engines
> will
> > > go
> > >> away or the 2-cycle engine will be banned
> altogether.  There is already
> a
> > >> small but steadily growing list of bodies of
> water wherein it is
> illegal
> > > to
> > >> operate 2-cycle marine engines.  That's
> something to ponder when it
> comes
> > >> time to replace your current outboard.  If you
> wait until 2-cycle
> engines
> > >> are outlawed; then, your current outboard won't
> have much resale value.
> > >> I've already voted with my checkbook.
> > >>
> > >> Roger Pihlaja
> > >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > >> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 2:37 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was
> (Stupid People Tricks)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Well, Roger, I am sure you saw this coming but
> I like
> > >>> my little 2 cycle motor.  Pollution & all:-)
> > >>> Steve
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> wrote:
> > >>>> Richard,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I can usually follow your line of reasoning;
> but,
> > >>>> this time I'm confused.  The discussion was
> about
> > >>>> the relative merits of 2-cycle vs 4-cycle
> marine
> > >>>> engines.  What do alcohol burning model
> airplane
> > >>>> engines have to do with gasoline burning
> marine
> > >>>> engines?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Roger Pihlaja
> > >>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >>>>
> __________________________________________________
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> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
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> > >
> > >
> > >
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> 
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