[Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was (Stupid People Tricks)

[Steve]

Rummy got you on this one, Roger.  Those 4 strock do
break down alot.  And a hammer, screwdriver & spark
plug wrench won't fix them!!!!
Steve

PS - However, My family use to be in the Sawmill
business so; "Kill a tree, support your local
sawmiller":-)


--- John Tonjes <johntonjes at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Roger,
> As I have often stated, I don't have any political
> affiliations or
> agenda's, but I will hug a tree from time to time
> (especially for support
> if I've had one to many). I think there is still a
> place for the small,
> light weight 2 cycle engines. As Ed stated, the
> newer 2 cycle's with the
> electronic ignition does a much better job of
> burning the fuel and there
> are some new 2 cycles which actually meet the
> California emission reg's,
> which are the toughest in the nation.
> I have long been a firm believer in the KISS system
> and the 2 cycle is
> definitely a simple engine. I'm not convinced that
> the four strokes on the
> market today are the cats meow......rather possibly
> the other end. Living
> on a lake, at a marina, I see a lot of the problems
> that people are having
> with these new fangled engines. I'll wait until the
> bugs are worked out and
> let someone else have the grief with these monsters.
> 
> Rummy
> 
> 
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Date: 7/18/2003 6:53:19 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was
> (Stupid People Tricks)
> >
> > Steve & Rummy,
> >
> > Look, I'll be the 1st to agree that double &
> triple engined muscle boats
> are
> > one of the most glaring examples of conspicuous
> consumption & wretched
> > excess in the world today.  But, they mostly run
> with 4-cycle engines &
> they
> > run mostly in deep water, far from shore, & their
> population density is
> > usually pretty low.  Small 2-cycle outboards &
> PWC's tend to be much more
> > numerous, used near shore, in estuaries, small
> bays, rivers, etc.  In
> other
> > words, the small 2-cycle marine engines tend to be
> emitting their
> pollution
> > into the waters that are the most productive &
> most vulnerable in terms of
> > fish spawning grounds, insect larvae, crustaceans,
> plant life, etc.  Make
> no
> > mistake, there is some BAD SHIT in 2-cycle exhaust
> smoke & the oily film
> > that these machines lay down on the water;
> materials like dioxins,
> > tetrahydrofurans (THF's) & other materials that
> are biologically active at
> > parts per billion concentration & also tend to
> bioconcentrate up the food
> > chain.  Gentlemen, this is a really bad deal!
> >
> > Hey guys, I'm a sailor, just like you.  I'm also a
> professional chemical
> > engineer, not some tree hugging environmentalist. 
> I've seen the water
> > quality & biological sampling data & the
> supporting analysis.  These
> reports
> > have convinced me that marine 2-cycle engines are
> a problem.  Certainly
> the
> > small, low use, 2-cycle outboards used on our
> R-22's are not the biggest
> > contributor to the problem; BUT, they are part of
> the problem & not part
> of
> > the solution.  It's counterproductive to point
> your finger at muscleboats
> &
> > say those folks should be banned until your own
> house is in order.  The
> > environmental threat from 2-cycle marine engine
> exhaust emissions is real
> &
> > not going away any time soon.  Which side of this
> issue do you want to be
> > on?
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve Alm" <salm at mn.rr.com>
> > To: "Rhodes" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 2:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was
> (Stupid People Tricks)
> >
> >
> > > Rummy, I'm with you.  The heavy machinery is a
> much bigger problem.  I
> > doubt
> > > I burn more than fifteen gallons a season.  It's
> a goddang blowboat for
> > > chirstsake!  If they ban 2 cycles, I would hope
> that they would put a
> cap
> > on
> > > it--like over 25 or something.
> > > Slim
> > > P.S. You're partying with the wrong people.
> > >
> > > On 7/17/03 6:54 PM, "John Tonjes"
> <johntonjes at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Roger,
> > > > If 2 cycle engines are outlawed, there are
> going to be a lot of
> unhappy
> > > > loggers, tree trimmers, grass maintenance
> compamies and homeowners who
> > use
> > > > them for everything from blowing leaves to
> mowing the lawn.
> Personally,
> > I
> > > > would prefer to see the 1000 hp cigarette
> boats with blowers outlawed
> > long
> > > > before the 2 cycles are done in. I talked with
> a guy a few weeks ago
> at
> > a
> > > > party with just such a boat. He can go in
> excess of 100mph on the
> water.
> > I
> > > > didn't bother asking about fuel consumption,
> but he did mention he
> > carried
> > > > 110 gallons of high test.
> > > >
> > > > Rummy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> [Original Message]
> > > >> From: Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> > > >> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >> Date: 7/17/2003 5:22:54 PM
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was
> (Stupid People Tricks)
> > > >>
> > > >> Steve,
> > > >>
> > > >> Since 2-cycle engines are currently still
> legal to operate on most
> > bodies
> > > > of
> > > >> water in the United States, everyone must
> decide for themselves what
> > they
> > > >> want to do re this issue.  Certainly, PWC's &
> large 2-cycle outboards
> > > >> generate lots more pollution & waste much
> more fuel than the
> relatively
> > > >> small & infrequently used outboards on our
> R-22's.  I realize
> replacing
> > an
> > > >> outboard engine is an expensive proposition. 
> I myself did not switch
> > over
> > > >> to 4-cycle engines overnight.  The 2-cycle
> Evinrude 6 came installed
> on
> > > >> Dynamic Equilibrium when the boat was
> purchased in 1987 & we ran with
> > that
> > > >> engine for 9 years.  I replaced the 2-cycle
> Evinrude 6 on Dynamic
> > > >> Equilibrium with the 4-cycle Honda 8 in 1996.
>  However, in that same
> > > > year, I
> > > >> converted the long shaft Evinrude 6 back to a
> standard length shaft &
> > ran
> > > >> the 2-cycle engine on our 10 foot inflatable
> sport dingy until 2000,
> > when
> > > > I
> > > >> purchased the 4-cycle Honda 9.9.  I finally
> sold the 2-cycle Evinrude
> > at a
> > > >> yard sale in the summer of 2001.  By that
> point, the Evinrude was
> > getting
> > > > a
> > > >> little tired & looked pretty scruffy, but it
> still ran reasonably
> well.
> > > >>
> > > >> The nearly 2X greater fuel consumption & more
> than 10X greater
> exhaust
> > > >> emissions issues with 2-cycle marine engines
> are real & well
> > documented.
> > > >> Their continued use does not represent good
> stewardship of the
> planet.
> > > > The
> > > >> real question everyone must ask themselves
> is, "Do you want to be
> part
> > of
> > > >> the problem or part of the solution?"  Long
> term, I think 2-cycle
> > marine
> > > >> engines will either be saddled with so much
> emissions control
> > technology
> > > >> that the cost, simplicity, & weight
> advantages over 4-cycle engines
> > will
> > > > go
> > > >> away or the 2-cycle engine will be banned
> altogether.  There is
> already
> > a
> > > >> small but steadily growing list of bodies of
> water wherein it is
> > illegal
> > > > to
> > > >> operate 2-cycle marine engines.  That's
> something to ponder when it
> > comes
> > > >> time to replace your current outboard.  If
> you wait until 2-cycle
> > engines
> > > >> are outlawed; then, your current outboard
> won't have much resale
> value.
> > > >> I've already voted with my checkbook.
> > > >>
> > > >> Roger Pihlaja
> > > >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > > >> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 2:37 PM
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I'm Confused Was
> (Stupid People Tricks)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> Well, Roger, I am sure you saw this coming
> but I like
> > > >>> my little 2 cycle motor.  Pollution & all:-)
> > > >>> Steve
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> wrote:
> > > >>>> Richard,
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I can usually follow your line of
> reasoning; but,
> > > >>>> this time I'm confused.  The discussion was
> about
> > > >>>> the relative merits of 2-cycle vs 4-cycle
> marine
> > > >>>> engines.  What do alcohol burning model
> airplane
> > > >>>> engines have to do with gasoline burning
> marine
> > > >>>> engines?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Roger Pihlaja
> > > >>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > >>>>
> __________________________________________________
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> > > >>>
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> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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