[Rhodes22-list] Forestay Wire Size Upgrade

Wed Jun 4 21:25:34 EDT 2003

Razz,
Thanks to all who provided me with all the good info.  I have sent my 
forestay to West Marine rigging in Rock Hill, SC and asked them to replace 
it with the exact duplicate.  I now recall seeing that this wire was frayed 
at that spot back in March when I removed the genoa for a repair.  For some 
reason, it never registered with me to replace it and I am just real lucky 
that it did not break when sailing in Florida in April.  It was definitely 
the wire that broke and it was likely from it being bent and abused over 
time, not from corrosion or old age (boat is a '95).  I am going to replace 
it with the identical set-up, inspect the rest of the rigging thoroughly and 
pay much closer attention to the condition of the rigging in the future.  Am 
also going to run a halyard up the mast since I can't climb up the way Roger 
can...
Bob K

>From: "David Rasberry" <cinetics at acsinc.net>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Forestay Wire Size Upgrade
>Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:59:20 -0700
>
>Bob,
>
>If your forestay failed near the lower swage fitting the most likely cause
>was crevice corrosion from moisture getting into the swage over time. Its 
>ok
>to go up one size on the wire, but you will not be able to properly tension
>a larger wire without overloading the rest of the rig.  Static tension on
>the wire is supposed to be between 10 and 20% of rated breaking strength.
>For 1/8" wire, which is standard on the Rhodes, the breaking strength is
>around 2100lbs. 5/32" wire is around 3100lbs, 3/16" wire is 4700lbs and 
>1/4"
>wire is 6300 lbs. 5/32" is one size up from the rest of the rig, which is
>plenty. One of my old lower shrouds failed under calm conditions with the
>boat at the dock. There was no visible damage or discoloration or other
>obvious outward sign of deterioration prior to failure. I replaced the
>entire rigging gang immediately. If yours is original to the boat and 10
>years old or more I would recommend the same. If you want to avoid the
>problem of swage failure, get a 5/32" forestay with a Sta-lok fitting on 
>the
>lower end instead of a swage. they don't make Sta-loks for 1/8" wire or I
>would have used them. Since I don't have a furler, I stayed with 1/8" on my
>gloucester. I used Sailing Services of Miami for the new rig. They pack the
>swage fittings with an anti-corrosion grease before compressing them onto
>the wire and use a rotary hammer press that produces a tighter fitting 
>swage
>than the usual Kearney roll swaging press without deforming or cracking the
>swage fitting.  SSM specializes in rigs for boats that spend their lives in
>tropical salt water areas, so they use a premium grade wire alloy and
>fittings and take extra measures to maximize corrosion resistance. If you
>are in a rush, Riggers Supply in Greenville can make a new one up for you
>while you wait if they are not too busy. They do mostly heavy gauge
>industrial rigging like cranes. They use a Kearney roll swager for smaller
>stuff. You might have to supply your own end fittings since they don't 
>stock
>marine hardware. They do have the wire though.
>
>Razz the Gloucester sailor
>
>Hi Rhodies, its been a while since I have been active due to family
>circumstances, though I have been catching up on the list backlog every 
>once
>in awhile. PS Bob,Ed and Rummy, my sister gave me a Loos tension gauge for
>Christmas, so if you want to tweak your rigs just holler.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Bob Keller
>Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 8:20 AM
>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Forestay Wire Size Upgrade
>
>
>Roger & Rummy,
>Could I super-size the stay by drilling a larger hole in the roller furler
>drums?  Or would it be better to leave well enough alone and keep the size
>the same.  I thought that I had 1/4" wire, but you (Roger) said that you
>increased the size up to 3/16"  I'm confused (as usual).
>Bob K
>
>
> >From: "John Tonjes" <johntonjes at earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: johntonjes at earthlink.net,The Rhodes 22 mail list
> ><rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Forestay Wire Size Upgrade
> >Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:54:33 -0400
> >
> >Roger,
> >Thank you. We tried to convince Captain Bob that the wire broke due to
> >operator error and you helped to reinforce our opinions. Sometimes it's
> >hardest to see the forest through the trees.
> >
> >Rummy
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > Date: 6/2/2003 7:43:57 AM
> > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Forestay Wire Size Upgrade
> > >
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > When I upgraded my roller furler from the stock GBI unit to a Harken
> >Unit
> >0,
> > > I increased the forestay wire size from 5/32" OD up to 3/16" OD.  I 
>made
> > > this upgrade because 3/16" OD was the largest wire size that would fit
> >the
> > > Harken Unit 0 and the differences in cost, weight, & windage were
> > > negligible.  There was a significant upgrade in safety margin as the 
>max
> > > tensile breaking strength was increased by about 35%.  Just make 
>certain
> >the
> > > end fittings use the same size pins as you have now.  Before you make
> >this
> > > change in wire size, be certain your OEM roller furler can handle it.
> >My
> > > guess is that it will not be able to work with the larger wire OD.
> >There
> > > probably won't be sufficient clearance for the mechanism to turn 
>easily.
> > >
> > > It is rare that a wire rope will simply fail W/O any warning in the
> >middle
> > > of its length, especially in light air.  Most the time, progressive 
>wire
> > > rope degradation or imminent failure can be detected by inspecting the
> >wire
> > > visually & running your hand or a cloth along it.  Single strand
> >failures
> >in
> > > a wire rope usually show up as curled "meat hooks" that you will feel
> >with
> > > your hand or will snag a rag.
> > >
> > > It is especially important to inspect the fittings at the ends of the
> >wire
> > > rope.  Look for tiny cracks &/or discoloration (usually rust or black 
>in
> > > color) in the fitting or the wire near the fitting.  If you see any
> >cracks
> > > or discoloration; then, immediately take the piece to a rigging shop 
>or
> >just
> > > simply replace it.
> > >
> > > Your post implies you suspect your forestay was somehow getting
> >repeatedly
> > > kinked just below the bottom of the furling drum as a result of the
> > > trailering process.  If this is the case; then, you need to change 
>your
> > > trailering &/or mast stepping procedures.  In thousands of trailering
> >miles
> > > & dozens of mast steps since 1987, my forestay has never been kinked 
>as
> >a
> > > result of trailering or mast stepping.  If your forestay was getting
> > > repeatedly kinked in the same spot, this would be very bad for the 
>wire.
> > > Upgading to a larger wire size will do little to fix this problem.
> > > Stainless steel wire rope is not very tolerant of kinks.  So, if your
> > > trailering &/or mast stepping procedures are causing the forestay to 
>be
> > > kinked; then, figure out some other way accomplish the same task W/O
> >kinking
> > > the wire.
> > >
> > > Good luck, Bob!
> > >
> > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bob Keller" <r22yankeeclipper at hotmail.com>
> > > To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 11:32 PM
> > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Frigging Rigging
> > >
> > >
> > > > While sailing today on a rather calm day on Lake Hartwell, my latest
> > > > calamity was that my forestay broke.  Yep, it broke off right at the
> > > bottom
> > > > of the furler drum.  Could have been worse because Roger R shinnied 
>up
> >the
> > > > mast (amazing thing to see) and tied a line just above the spreaders
> >which
> > > > we secured to the bow cleat to keep the mast from going too far.
> > > Meanwhile,
> > > > Rummy was mixing drinks below, oblivious to the goings-on up above.
> >We
> > > > motored back from Big Water and dropped the mast.
> > > >
> > > > Looks like the forestay was bent too many times, possibly from
> >trailering,
> > > > and it finally gave way.
> > > >
> > > > It was recommended to me to upsize the forestay to 5/16" (by the 
>same
> > > people
> > > > who told me to pull my diamondboard  down all the way unti lit is
> > > > perpendicular to the boat!).  Does anyone have experience or 
>knowledge
> >of
> > > > using a slightly larger stay?  Any problems to be aware of?  Sounds
> >like a
> > > > good idea to me, but I wanted to check the list to see if anyone has
> >done
> > > > this before?  Thanks.
> > > > Bob K
> > > > s/v Yankee Clipper
> > > >
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
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