[Rhodes22-list] Politics -- Question

Wed Jun 11 13:23:38 EDT 2003

now guys, this is how to do not great politics :-)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/31142.html

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Meltzer" <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics -- Question


> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/31140.html
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "brad haslett" <flybrad at yahoo.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics -- Question
> 
> 
> > Wally,
> > 
> > The specific officers I had in mind when I wrote that
> > were the ones that had their careers terminated over
> > Tail Hook (some who now share a cockpit with me) Here
> > is an excerpt from a column on that very subject.
> > 
> > "In my opinion, Bill Clinton was only remorseful for
> > getting caught and I also believe that he still cares
> > more for his personal popularity than he does about
> > America. Clinton shamed and abused our trust on every
> > level, not the least of which was being exposed as a
> > molester, eager to impose himself upon every
> > vulnerable, and even unwilling female, around him. To
> > those who say, "it was only sex," I must respond that
> > he fired military personnel involved in the Tail Hook
> > Scandal for lesser sins than his. "
> > 
> > The entire article can be read at:
> > 
> > http://www.sierratimes.com/archive/files/dec/01/marti.htm
> > 
> > Brad
> > 
> > 
> > --- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Brad,
> > > 
> > > I agree, the impeachment proceedings were a real
> > > waste of time and money. 
> > > And yes a few Officers and the top Non Com went down
> > > (no pun intended) for 
> > > sexual offenses. In most of the cases I can recall
> > > (not all) there were 
> > > complains filed against the offending military men.
> > > Monica never had any 
> > > type of sexual harassment claim against Clinton. I
> > > realize that there were 
> > > claims from other women but not Monica.  I thought
> > > the whole thing was blown 
> > > (pun intended) out of proportion.
> > > 
> > > Wally
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >From: brad haslett <flybrad at yahoo.com>
> > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics -- Question
> > > >Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 06:47:34 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >
> > > >Bill,
> > > >
> > > >If Bush lied to push his war agenda I'll be the
> > > first
> > > >to call for his impeachment.  I think the evidence
> > > was
> > > >there to make his case but others with a different
> > > >agenda could probably have used the same data to
> > > make
> > > >theirs.  Clinton, his cabinet, and both parties
> > > during
> > > >his administration felt there were WMD in Iraq and
> > > now
> > > >their words and votes are haunting them.
> > > >
> > > >I have read the Clinton Grand Jury testimony and
> > > >watched most of the impeachment trial.  Frankly, I
> > > was
> > > >dissapointed with the whole thing, a waste of time
> > > and
> > > >taxpayer money.  What Bill does with his "Mr.
> > > Happy"
> > > >is of no concern to me what-so-ever now that he is
> > > out
> > > >of office and was of very little concern while he
> > > was
> > > >in office.  But, several members of the military
> > > got
> > > >fried for far less serious conduct that had a
> > > sexual
> > > >overtone while he was Commander-in-Chief. I
> > > couldn't
> > > >behave like that on my job and get away with it and
> > > >neither could most folks.  Was it an impeachable
> > > >offense?  Probably not.  I'm still disappointed
> > > that
> > > >the press didn't do their job in 1991.  It didn't
> > > >suprise me that Ken Starr failed his original
> > > mission.
> > > >  If I sat down with my corporate pilot buddies
> > > from
> > > >Little Rock and started connecting the dots from
> > > >everything we saw and heard from the period of 1978
> > > to
> > > >1985 we could put together 95% of what really
> > > >happened.  Avoiding that last 5% is why he earned
> > > the
> > > >moniker "Slick Willy" and he had it long before he
> > > >became President.
> > > >
> > > >Hopefully Hillary will run in 2004 or 2008.  I
> > > still
> > > >want her to share that commodity trading program
> > > that
> > > >no one in the history of commodity trading has been
> > > >able to duplicate.  The Rose Law Firm put a lot of
> > > >bread on my table during my last two years of
> > > college
> > > >at UALR, Most of those folks were nice people.  The
> > > >senior partner, Joe Gior (my most frequent
> > > client)went
> > > >bankrupt, Vince Foster died, Hillary (never flew
> > > her)
> > > >got a little creative with billing (just another
> > > >Arkansas method of funding candidates) but most
> > > were
> > > >just hard working, honest attorneys.  Thats no
> > > joke.
> > > >
> > > >Run, Hillary Run!
> > > >
> > > >Brad
> > > >--- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > > > > Brad,
> > > > >
> > > > > I really, really, hope this question will not
> > > > > degenerate into the question "If Clinton lied
> > > about
> > > > > a blow job, is it OK for Bush to lie about a
> > > war?"
> > > > >
> > > > > Have you ever read the Clinton Grand Jury
> > > testimony?
> > > > >
> > > > > Most people have not.  I think you'll find it
> > > quite
> > > > > interesting.
> > > > >
> > > > > First of all, everyone was lying.  They had
> > > quite a
> > > > > cast of characters.   People couldn't remember
> > > if
> > > > > they were fired from their last job.  They
> > > couldn't
> > > > > remember accusations made against them.  etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then Clinton gets asked a sex question with no
> > > > > direct bearing on the matter at hand.  His
> > > attorneys
> > > > > object.  The question is rephrased in the
> > > negative.
> > > > > It is so convoluted that it is written down and
> > > > > handed to Clinton who is asked if he understands
> > > the
> > > > > question.  He says he thinks he does.  He is
> > > told to
> > > > > answer yes or no.  His lawyers again object,
> > > telling
> > > > > the judge it has become the "Do you still beat
> > > your
> > > > > wife?" question--Clinton will be accused of
> > > lying no
> > > > > matter how he answers the question.  The judge
> > > > > insists that he answer the question.
> > > > >
> > > > > The question permitted was "Have you had
> > > intercourse
> > > > > with Monica Lewinski?"  To which, it would seem,
> > > > > Clinton could have honestly answered "no".  The
> > > > > question asked was "Have you had sex with Monica
> > > > > Lewinski?" with a paragraph long definition of
> > > "sex"
> > > > > that explicitly excluded, for the purpose of
> > > this
> > > > > answer in this court at this time, blow jobs
> > > among
> > > > > other things.  Clinton seemingly truthfully
> > > answered
> > > > > "no".
> > > > >
> > > > > This was a set up, and I think you know it.  The
> > > > > testimony was never supposed to become public,
> > > but
> > > > > of course it did.  If you look at his public
> > > > > statements around this time, for a while he was
> > > able
> > > > > to tap dance around the truth, saying,
> > > truthfully,
> > > > > things like "Under the definition of sex as
> > > provided
> > > > > to me in my Grand Jury testimony I can honestly
> > > say
> > > > > that I never had sex with Monica Lewinski..."
> > > > >
> > > > > Then he got sloppy and started to rely on
> > > implied
> > > > > disclaimers.  I will not, for one moment, try to
> > > > > defend this.  It was dumb.  It was dumb to get
> > > > > backed into this situation.  Knowing what he
> > > knew,
> > > > > he would have been smarter to settle earlier,
> > > even
> > > > > if he knew the charges against him amounted to
> > > > > extortion, and would lead to more frivolous
> > > suits.
> > > > >
> > > > > To answer my own question: no, I do not think it
> > > is
> > > > > OK to lie about blow jobs.  I do not think it is
> > > ok
> > > > > to lie about war.  I do think you agree.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill Effros
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: brad haslett
> > > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:08 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics --
> > > Question
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's a link to a Rich Lowry column that
> > > addresses
> > > 
> > === message truncated ===
> > 
> > 
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