[Rhodes22-list] trim rings
Todd Tavares
sprocket80@mail.com
Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:02:38 -0500
Roger,
Thanks for the link. As usual, your explaination reads like a tech manual...excellent!
Todd
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402@centurytel.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:51:15 -0500
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] trim rings
> Todd,
>
> In my 1st post responding to this thread, I referenced the following FAQ,
> which I wrote many years ago:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/blew_skies/openport.html
>
> Read the FAQ & if you still have questions; then, ask away & I'll try to
> help. As you will see when you read the FAQ, I actually did this port
> installation in October, 1988. Thus, I'd only owned my R-22 for about 18
> months when I did this port upgrade. After 14 sailing seasons & thousands
> of trailering miles, all four of those Beckson opening ports are still in
> place and don't leak a drop. The starboard front port once took a direct
> hit from a bird while trailering at expressway speed on I-40 in Tennesssee.
> The impact ruined the insect screen on the port & put blood & feathers all
> over that side of the boat! But, there was no structural damage to the port
> itself.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Todd Tavares" <sprocket80@mail.com>
> To: <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 10:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] trim rings
>
>
> > Roger,
> >
> > I may have missed this part of the discussion. When you through bolted
> your ports, did you fill the hollow area between the inner and outer walls
> to keep the through bolts from squeezing the walls in together, and if so
> what material/s did you use?
> >
> > Todd
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402@centurytel.net>
> > Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:07:48 -0500
> > To: <kroposki@innova.net>, "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] trim rings
> >
> > > Ed,
> > >
> > > No, I have not blown out a port - yet! But, I have taken green water
> over
> > > the bow on several occasions & seen/felt the kind of forces involved
> with
> > > this rapidly moving stream of water. There is no doubt in my mind that
> it's
> > > capable of stripping those wood screws right out of the fiberglass &
> blowing
> > > the port out.
> > >
> > > Hey, Ed, we're all adults here. It's OK if anyone wants to install
> their
> > > ports in decorative mode. But, if someone is going to install or
> tolerate a
> > > built-in weak point; then, they should at least be well aware that their
> > > boat has a glass jaw & the circumstances which might cause it to fail.
> It's
> > > perfectly valid to manage the weakness by avoiding that part of the
> > > operating envelope.
> > >
> > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Kroposki" <kroposki@innova.net>
> > > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 10:03 AM
> > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] trim rings
> > >
> > >
> > > > Roger,
> > > > After reading this discussion and Stan's reply, I have a
> question.
> > > > I know that you sail on the Great Lakes (former home of the Edmond
> > > > Fitzgerald). And you said that you sail hard. The question is this,
> > > > have you blown out a port?
> > > > Ed K
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org
> > > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:36 AM
> > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Robert & Roger: - trim rings
> > > >
> > > > Rummy,
> > > >
> > > > You are both right & wrong re the structural value of the trim ring.
> If
> > > > the
> > > > trim ring is installed like it was originally on Marc's boat, in what
> I
> > > > will
> > > > call "decorative mode"; then, you are correct, it contributes no
> > > > structural
> > > > strength. However, if the trim ring is incorporated into a
> thru-bolted
> > > > sandwich structure as per the procedure in my FAQ; then, it becomes an
> > > > integral part of a structural system that is conservatively estimated
> to
> > > > be
> > > > about 100 times as strong as the port is in decorative mode. This
> extra
> > > > strength would only be important in heavy weather situations. If the
> > > > boat
> > > > is only sailed in protected waters & fair weather; then, the strength
> of
> > > > the
> > > > port will probably never be tested. There are enough things that can
> go
> > > > crooked on a cruise & I like to sail my R-22 hard. I hate to install
> > > > systems or gear on my boat that I have to baby & always be careful
> about
> > > > because of a built-in "gotcha". Of course, I also carry several
> precut
> > > > pieces of plywood with a rubber gasket glued on one side & thru bolts
> to
> > > > cover or plug a blown out port. Everybody uses their R-22 differently
> I
> > > > guess.
> > > >
> > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "John Tonjes" <johntonjes@earthlink.net>
> > > > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 6:49 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Robert & Roger: - trim rings
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Marc,
> > > > > The trim ring on the interior is just that, a trim ring. It has NO
> > > > > structural value. Proper caulking and using the proper screws to
> > > > attach
> > > > > the port on the outside is all you need to do. The trim ring is held
> > > > in
> > > > > place with caulking.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rummy
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org
> > > > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Roger
> Pihlaja
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:14 PM
> > > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Robert & Roger: - trim rings
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Marc,
> > > > >
> > > > > It all depends upon how & where you intend to use your R-22. If you
> > > > are
> > > > > ever out in heavy weather & take a good solid wave into those ports
> > > > the
> > > > > way they were installed; then, they will almost certainly blow out.
> > > > You
> > > > > would be amazed how much water will get below thru even one blown
> out
> > > > > port in heavy weather! A seaworthy installation would always be
> thru
> > > > > bolted as per my description in the FAQ. You're a big boy & you can
> > > > do
> > > > > it however you wish, but remember you were advised on the correct
> way
> > > > to
> > > > > do the job.
> > > > >
> > > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Karen Fiske / Marc Beroz" <kfiske@erols.com>
> > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 4:05 PM
> > > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Robert & Roger: - trim rings
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Robert:
> > > > > > The process so far has been painless. One port had been installed
> > > > with
> > > > >
> > > > > > silicone & popped right off. The other was had some type of
> adhesive
> > > > > > caulking & took just a bit more time to free. Both ports were held
> > > > in
> > > > > place
> > > > > > by 10 screws that went through the flange of the port into the
> > > > > > fiberglass skin (cabin side). These screws were about 3/4" long &
> > > > only
> > > > >
> > > > > > went through
> > > > > the
> > > > > > inner skin of the cabin wall. There was no foam or wood between
> the
> > > > > > inner
> > > > > &
> > > > > > outer cabin skins. There was a narrow band of caulking where the
> > > > port
> > > > > spigot
> > > > > > passed through the outer cabin wall.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I removed the screws and pulled the ports out. Then I just had to
> > > > lift
> > > > >
> > > > > > the trim rings off (only held in place by silicone or caulk). Took
> > > > > > much more time to clean the caulking off the ports & fiberglass
> > > > skin
> > > > > > than to do anything else.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Beckson has installation instructions at
> > > > > > www.beckson.com/installport.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Roger:
> > > > > > Thanks for the link. Beckson's website describes installing trim
> > > > rings
> > > > >
> > > > > > either with flush mount barrel nuts through the trim rings or just
> > > > > > using silicone with no fasteners through the rings. The latter is
> > > > > > certainly
> > > > > easier
> > > > > > & is what my prior installation was, - but it does not seem to be
> a
> > > > > > very ship-shape way to do things. At this point I'm either going
> to
> > > > > > use
> > > > > silicone
> > > > > > only or use silicone with pan head screws through the trim rings
> &
> > > > > > outer skin to hold them in place. I do have any wood or foam
> filler
> > > > > > between the
> > > > > 2
> > > > > > fiberglass skins & am not planning to put any in. I 'd like to
> > > > > > re-install the rings as GB had done it originally (without
> > > > fasteners)
> > > > > > but I wonder
> > > > > how
> > > > > > I can get a good silicone seal between the ring & fiberglass
> surface
> > > > > > doing it this way. Apparently both GB & Beckson didn't see it as a
> > > > > > problem so maybe I'm just fretting over nothing. Marc
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _________________________________________________
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
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