[ham] Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soap Boxes

Thu May 29 21:32:50 EDT 2003

I think that will work. If I may I would like to subject something. I would write up a fuller expernation about the "rules", how the
advice will befit the person, history for them, the groups apereation etc... (I include the Dale Carnegie below, beside I been
looking for a excurce to post them to the list this week :-).

My problem is not the rules but how someone might react to them. you been around for the flame wars, my fear a simple post "thou
shal"
1.  No Religion
2.  Jokes must be labelled in the subject line.
3.  Politics must be labelled in the subject line.
4.  If you change the subject you must also change the subject line.

Will rub someone the wrong way by their style. Get their hair up and go into fighting mode. I would like to save the direct mode for
round two put out the fire. Now I have a sincere appreciation for you writing skill, not having any of my own. Could you help me
here?

MJM

BTW I send out the charter when people sign up, whould it make sence to add your work to it?

Six Ways to Make People Like You
 Become genuinely interested in other people.
 Smile.
 Remember that a man's name is to him the sweetest and most important sound in any language.
 Be a good listener. Encourage others to talk about them.
 Talk in terms of the other man's interest.
 Make the other person feel important-and do it sincerely.

Twelve Ways Of Winning People To Your Way of Thinking.
 The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it.
 Show respect for the other man's opinions. Never tell a man that he is wrong.
 If you are wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically.
 Begin in a friendly way.
 Get the other person saying, "Yes, yes" immediately.
 Let the other man do a great deal of the talking.
 Let the other man feel that the idea is his.
 Try honestly to see things from the other person's point of view.
 Be sympathetic with the other person's ideas and desires.
 Appeal to the nobler motives.
 Dramatize your ideas.
 Throw down a challenge.

Nine Ways To Change People without giving Offense Or Arousing Resentment
 Begin with praise and honest appreciation.
 Call attention to people's mistakes indirectly.
 Talk about your own mistakes before criticizing the other person.
 Ask questions instead of giving direct orders.
 Let the other man save his face.
 Praise the slightest improvement and praise every improvement.
 Be "heart in your approbation and lavish in your praise".
 Use encouragement. Make the fault seem easy to correct.
 Make the other person happy about doing the thing you suggest.

Seven Rules for making Your Home Life Happier
 Don't nag.
 Don't try to make your partner over.
 Don't criticize.
 Give honest appreciation.
 Pay little attentions.
 Be Courteous.
 Read a good book on the sexual side of marriage.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [ham] Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soap Boxes

Michael,

I thought "Rhendezvous Rain-out (nearly) Report - bogg?" was a reference to NYC.

Actually, I didn't, and I knew I should change the subject line, but I didn't.

As you know, for years I was the guy who kept posting our only rule "No Politics, No Religion".  Then we added the rule "Jokes must
be labelled in the subject line."  Then many jokes became very political, drawing political responses so we said that Politics would
be OK as long as Politics was labelled in the subject line.

Changing the subject line to reflect the real subject is a courtesy, but there is so much spam out there that I think we should make
it a rule as well.

That would make a total of 4 rules for the list:

1.  No Religion
2.  Jokes must be labelled in the subject line.
3.  Politics must be labelled in the subject line.
4.  If you change the subject you must also change the subject line.

Just as you post the charter from time to time, and Rummy posts information about the off-list list, I will post these rules
periodically.  Anyone who feels these rules aren't being followed is free to post them, as well, or to send me a note, on the list,
asking me to post them.  That way no one is specifically slammed, and anyone offended by postings from other list members can speak
up.

Bill Effros

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Michael Meltzer
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: [ham] Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soap Boxes

Sounds like a plan, just needs to be done judicially and with some tack, I do not want people feeling they are being "slammed"
upside the head about it. More along the lines of "education", the reasons why this came to be, how helpful they/it would be to the
list and how the Citizens of the world will rejoice at thier enlightenment.. Kind of like changing the subject line "Rhendezvous
Rain-out (nearly) Report - bogg?" :-)

Us Carzy NYer's, what would the world be without us :-)

MJM

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
To: <bberner at optonline.net>; "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 10:43 AM
Subject: [ham] Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soap Boxes

Bill,

When I was in college, a decision was made to permit George Lincoln Rockwell, the head of the American Nazi Party, to speak to the
student body.  Free speech.  Free country.  Every voice should be heard.

Most agreed with the decision, but initially there was little agreement about an appropriate response.  Finally, after much debate,
a consensus emerged.   Everyone who could fit into the hall would attend.  There would be no banners.  There would be no
disruptions.  At the end of the speech there would be no challenges.  No questions.  Everyone would simply and quietly leave.

Rockwell delivered a vile speech, and then asked for audience response, whereupon the entire student body simply got up and walked
out, leaving him ranting at the podium.  It was the most effective protest I have ever seen.

My impression is that this list has elected to protest the puerile postings of some members in much the same way.  Most of the
people on this list are not fools.  Anyone seeking an intelligent discussion of all sides of any issue can find it here.  Many of
these discussions have been fascinating, especially because there are literally hundreds of us with nothing in common except a boat.

The issue you raise has occured to others.  The strength of the list is that you raise it publicly, rather than just dropping off
the list.  The number of different people posting inflammatory claptrap has been greatly reduced from earlier times.  I think most
people agree with you and protest with their delete keys.

In the past, when this issue came up, we asked that jokes and politics be clearly posted in the subject line so that people who do
not wish to read these things in this forum will not be tricked into reading something they consider offensive.  As always, most
people comply, but a few persist, and think saying "Oh, silly me!" is cute.

Michael,

Let's enforce the rules about labelling jokes and politics in the subject line.  We should not wait until someone is offended and
feels the only option is to leave the list.  People who have been on the list, and know the rules, should point this out to
newcomers as soon as the rules are broken.  There is really no excuse or rationale for this type of behavior.

Bill Effros

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Bill Berner
To: 'The Rhodes 22 mail list'
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 3:19 PM
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Soap Boxes

I've been prompted to write by Brad's last couple of posts, especially
"Rumsfeld apologizes"

I started in to write a suggestion that the list charter be modified to ask
that members be refrain from soap boxing their political positions.

Then I realized that it would be asking for the group to curtail Freedom of
Speech.

So, I'm left with a conundrum.

I am personally sick and tired of the inflammatory conservative claptrap
that shows up here.  It's isn't always the substance that irks me so much,
but the belligerance, sarcasm and school yard bullying quality of so many of
the posts. I have rarely seen any acknowledgement that issues can be
multifaceted and complicated.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like all of the cannon fire comes from the
starboard side, and I'm pretty tired of it.

Chances are that I'll have to quit the list to resolve the issue, not a
choice I easily make.  There has been some good company here, and lot's of
good information.

Curious to see responses, then I'll shut up and make a decision.

Bill Berner
191 South Broadway
Hastings on Hudson, NY  10706

v 914 478 2896
f 914 478 3856
e BBerner at optonline.net

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of brad haslett
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 12:37 PM
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rumsfeld Apologizes

May 26, 2003
Rumsfeld Apologizes for Hyping Saddam Threat
(2003-05-26) -- U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald
Rumsfeld apologized to Senate Democrats today for
pre-war "hyping" of the threat posed by Saddam
Hussein's regime.

"I'm sorry Senators Biden, Rockefeller, Byrd, Roberts
and others," said a contrite Mr. Rumsfeld. "We
overestimated the threat posed by a lunatic dictator,
who hated the U.S. and Israel, and who paid rewards to
families of Palestinian terrorists. In an age when two
of the world's tallest buildings can be brought down
with tools used by the stockboy at K-Mart, we should
have demanded more concrete evidence of exotic weapons
of mass destruction. Saddam was helpless as a kitten
up a tree."

Sen. Rockefeller, D-WV, said Congress must determine
whether the administration "intentionally
overestimated" Iraq's weapons program, or "just
misread it. ... In either case it's a very bad
outcome."

Mr. Rumsfeld agreed, "What an awful outcome. We deeply
regret freeing the Iraqi people from a murderous gang
of thugs masquerading in the United Nations as a
representative republic. We're sorry that the Iraqi
people have discovered thousands of graves of their
Saddam-murdered relatives. It's none of our business
if people want to live like that."

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