[Rhodes22-list] New Rhodes Boat Owner

[Bill Effros]

Doug,

The seats will duck under some of the older stern rails, and some people have installed them without the bumped out stern rail and seem happy with the compromise.

But you are quite right about the brilliance of the bumped out rail.  Stan has added so many quiet features to the boat over the years, those of us using them think every boat has always had them, and we forget they are unique.

Some winter I'd love to work with everyone to compile a list of features added to the boat over the years, along with user reviews of each feature.  While some features are structural, many are add-ons that could be added onto older boats at reasonable cost with great benefit.

Maybe we could coax Stan into developing retro-fit kits, and allow him to make a little money for his time and effort.  Maybe Roger could write instruction kits--and get paid for his efforts.

Maybe Stan has dropped features from the boat that some feel are better than the newer solution for their needs.  I'd like to hear about that, too.

What do you think?

Bill


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Gardner, Douglas (LNG-DAY) 
To: 'The Rhodes 22 mail list' 
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:39 AM
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] New Rhodes Boat Owner


A note on the captain's seats...

(I think they are awesome... still don't have them on Fretnaught though).

It isn't a trivial matter for anyone to install.  Buying the seats is
nothing.  You can get basically the same thing at Walmart.  

But... in order to use them, the stern rail (pushpit) must bump out at just
the right spot.  Those of us with older R22s would need to replace the rail
too.   Suddenly, the price just went up, and to my knowledge, Stan is the
only source for those rails!  Stan's big contribution here is to figure out
how to make them work on the R22 by changing the shape of the rail.

Compare the rails:
http://www.rhodes22.org/rhodes/pics/BillGallant1a.jpg  Bill using the
captain's chair (can't see the rail bump too well, but it is there)
http://www.rhodes22.org/rhodes/pics/SEATS1.jpg You can see the shape a lot
better here.
http://www.rhodes22.org/rhodes/pics/RNJ.jpg  Old shape... note nowhere for
your back to go.
http://www.rhodes22.org/rhodes/pics/rummy4.jpg  Another of the old shape
(ummmm... no pun intended).  Note that there is no bumpout (on the rail).


-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:20 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] New Rhodes Boat Owner


Wally,

Captain's seats will change your life.  You are always sailing with your
weight on the rail--effortlessly.  You feel and look like the king of the
universe.

I sailed past a million dollar yacht here in Greenwich a few years ago and
heard the beautiful girl in the thong say to the fat old rich guy "That seat
is great!  Why don't we have something like that?" 

I get that comment all the time from friends with much more expensive boats
who want to sail on mine.  They want to figure out how to install rail
mounted seats as comfortable and useful as the ones I've got.  But when push
comes to shove, they can't.  You can.

You should think about retro-fitting the captain's chairs on your boat.
Maybe Stan would create a retro-fit kit if you asked.  There is an exact
right spot to place the base, and Stan knows where it is.  There is a way to
safely mount the seats, and Stan knows what it is.

Because people steal his intellectual property, he may not want to give out
that information, and I would understand that.  But if you can coax the
information out of him, or buy it from him, it will be worth your time and
effort.

I always sail from the Captain's seat, and now feel lost without it.  It's
one of those great ideas you don't see coming.

Bill


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Wally Buck 
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org 
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] New Rhodes Boat Owner


Bill,

Nice post! My budget kept me from outfitting boat as you describe. I agree 
with most ....

I would pass on self tending jib as well. The R22 is easy to sail.  Mast 
head rigs need a bigger genny.

Captains seats - I don't have them but those that do seem to like them. I 
don't sail with full cockpit so I don't see need.

Single axle trailers are easier to maintain. Unless you plan on a bunch of 
long distance towing stick with single axle.

Motor lift - I do not have a GB lift of any type and wish I did. Mine is a 
piece of crap. I have heard many good thing about the non-electric GB lift. 
Not sure if I woudl go with electric but I have never seen it. Can motor be 
raised manually as well?

Ice Box - I would keep it simple. We have no problem keeping things cold for

5 days. We could go longer if I liked hot beer.

Cockpit cushions - get them, if budget allows get the fill in cushions as 
well.

Boom Room - We only cruise with two. If it is stormy out we go in cabin. Are

you cruising with 4 or more; then consider the boom room. It looks like a 
pain to me. We have an awning that provides sun and rain protection

Pop top enclosure - I don't have but I would order one. We use an old tent 
rain fly with tie downs to serve as pop top enclosure. It works great in 
rain but provides no bug protection. Bugs are not a problem on my lake but I

plan on ordering on of these one day ....

Link 10 - they are nice. You should only need two batteries. Mine are $38 
Walmart (84 amp hou)r Deep Cycles. They are three plus years old and going 
strong. I have shore power so I use a marine charger. If I didn;t I would 
order solar panels. I like electric start as well. Most provide light 
charging ability. They do not require a dedicated starting battery. Mine 
hand starts as welll. We have never run out of power. We usually go out from

1 - 4 nights.

I don't have an auto- tiller but they are nice. They do use up your battery 
power ......

I have a good hand held marine radio. If I cruised in ocean I would consider

stern rail mounted antenna.

IMF is awesome. I would go with a furler that allows sail changes without 
dropping mast.

Good Luck,

Wally






>From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] New Rhodes Boat Owner
>Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 12:14:43 -0400
>
>Nell,
>
>Congratulations!
>
>Naming is the hardest part.
>
>Forget the self tending jib.  It self tends, but it doesn't drive the boat.

>  The jib is the main driving sail.  Get the 175, and people on the list 
>will teach you to how to cross-sheet it so you never miss a tack, and can 
>operate it without ever leaving your captain's seat.
>
>Get the captain's seats for sure.
>
>I, also, bought my boat for the rest of my life.  Since the cost of add-ons

>is distributed over a lifetime, the yearly cost of something you want is 
>negligible.  Get anything you think you want now.  You will not get it from

>Stan later unless you live near him.
>
>On every matter, give Stan 2 votes to 1 for everyone else.  He is hand 
>building a boat for you, and in some cases he is trying to tell you that 
>the hands he has available will not build what you want as well as others 
>you may find later.
>
>The single axle trailer is fine.  It is much easier to maneuver in tight 
>spaces.  If you have a properly sized tow vehicle, and know how to position

>your boat properly on the trailer, you will have no trouble with it.  The 
>only reason for getting the dual axle rather than the single axle, in my 
>view, is that the single axle trailer can kick up, with the stern crashing 
>to the ground, if the boat is not properly loaded on the trailer, and the 
>trailer receiver is removed from the tow vehicle ball without first placing

>a block under the rear rails of the trailer.  This will never happen if you

>always place blocks under the trailer rail before unhitching from the tow 
>vehicle.  The dual axle trailer will not do this.  Elton has a Ph.D. in 
>trailering Rhodes-22s.  Talk to him.  He gets 2 votes to 1 for everyone 
>else on this matter.
>
>If Stan likes the electric motor lift, so do I.  It wasn't available when I

>bought my boat, but I  have been considering it.  Motors are getting 
>heavier at the same time we get older.  It is elegant.  And even though I 
>don't need it, I like the thought of it.  My manual motor lift is almost 
>the only reason I ever have to get out of my captain's chair while sailing.

>  While this may sound like a matter of sloth, it greatly contributes to 
>the ease of passengers who don't have to move every time the Captain needs 
>to make any adjustment.
>
>I single hand my boat at all times--even when there are 1/2 dozen people on

>board.  If someone wants to learn to sail I can teach just that person, 
>while the others can enjoy a simple pleasure uninterrupted by shouting and 
>trying to learn under adversity tasks they think if performed improperly 
>could cost them their lives.  Presently, the only time I ever have to ask 
>someone to move is when I must manually lower or raise the motor.  So the 
>electric motor lift is appealing to me.
>
>Your refrigerator idea is interesting.  If Stan wants to do it, do it.  If 
>not, don't.  The equipment required to run a refrigerator is very heavy, 
>and will change the sailing characteristics of your boat.  There are many 
>virtues to removing all perishable food every time you leave your boat.  
>Modern insulating materials will allow you to bring cold food with you from

>shore that will remain cold for many days.  Roger has written exactly how 
>to do this.
>
>Get the cockpit cushions.  I think the fill-in cushions are great, too.  I 
>use them whenever sailing with others.  Not only do they provide a beach 
>blanket sized sunning and eating space, they also lock the cockpit bench 
>cushions so they won't slide when heeling.  I am a firm believer in waxing 
>the entire boat, including the deck and cockpit surfaces, to maintain the 
>original look and condition of the boat.
>
>If you plan to sleep on board, get the pop-up enclosure.
>
>I am still toying with the boom room.  Stan is not wild about it.  I think 
>he can figure out how to do it right if he thinks about it some more.  It 
>works just fine, the problem is that it costs a lot of money and you are 
>carrying around a lot of paraphernalia all the time for something you use 
>just once in a while.
>
>I like the Link-10 battery monitor.  It constantly monitors your electrical

>system so you can know where you stand all the time, and not tell people to

>turn off their reading lights when not using them because you are worried 
>they will run down the batteries.  It turns out a single properly charged 
>battery will run for days and days on the amount of electricity we use on 
>this boat.  I have 2 but I don't really need them.  Some people have 3 and 
>4--to be on the safe side.  This adds weight, cost, and unreliability.  Get

>the Link-10 and learn to use it, and your battery anxieties will disappear 
>forever.
>
>I don't like the bulkhead mounted compass.  I like to lean against the 
>bulkhead, and so do most of my passengers.  My boat has 6 extremely 
>comfortable sitting positions (2 Captain's chairs; 2 of "Elton's Seats" 
>that we lean against the bulkheads, and I 2 small beanbag chairs for the 
>center of the seat passengers)  The bulkhead mounted compass would reduce 
>that to 5.  People install the compasses because they look good.  Nobody 
>bothers to correct them any more, so they tend to become extremely 
>inaccurate.  The globes scratch and become clouded by the sun.  (Walk 
>around your marina and look at them.)  Nobody really uses them any more.  
>There is no reason for it if you install an auto-tiller.  I have mine 
>installed on a board that slides in the companionway.  I sometimes use it 
>to practice navigation when I am single handing (In that location it is a 
>pain to go in and out of the cabin-I don't use it with others on board.)  
>Years can go by without my ever thinking to use a steering compass.
>
>I don't like a fixed VHF.  The new small rechargeable battery hand held 
>units have all the power and range we need.  They recharge using on-board 
>power.  And they don't go down with the ship, or an electrical problem on 
>board, or too much water in the wrong place.  They can be handed to the 
>captain from their secure location, or used by inexperienced people.
>
>I almost never use winches.  I let the wind do the work.  If the wind is 
>making it difficult to set the lines, I change what I am doing.  I don't 
>try to overpower the wind.  Every now and again I need the power of a 
>winch, but I wouldn't spend a lot of money on something like this.  The 
>standard winches are just fine.  Have Stan install mainly the things that 
>only Stan can provide.
>
>Electric start motor is a must.  It will recharge your batteries, or allow 
>you to run lights at night even when your batteries are dead.  You can 
>start it by hand if your batteries are dead--it is just as easy to start as

>a non-electric start motor.
>
>I love my solar cells.  They keep the batteries topped off all the time.  
>My boat never has shore power, but it always has all the electricity I 
>need.  My batteries lasted for twice the warranty period (6 years on 36 
>month batteries--never charged off the boat, always left in the cold all 
>winter, never a bit of trouble.)  I like the old wet cells better than gel 
>or AGM.  They are cheap and forgiving.  You can charge them higher and keep

>them higher without fear of overcharging.
>
>I had planned to play with my auto tiller this year, but haven't gotten 
>around to it.  I believe they can be mounted in a far more convenient way, 
>but haven't had the time to experiment.  They are bigger and heavier than 
>they appear in pictures, and intrude on cockpit space when in use.
>
>IMF for sure.
>
>I like the Spitzer Furler and have never had a day of trouble with it.  I 
>like the one piece foil construction, and never even dream of changing 
>sails on it.  If you have a 175 genny there is no reason to change 
>sails--learn to use the 175 properly.  This results in "untraditional" sail

>configurations, but your boat will go using the wind when others are afraid

>to deploy any sail at all.  Nobody seriously changes sails under conditions

>like these on boats like ours.
>
>I always toy with getting the most expensive Schaeffer roller furler 
>because it is reported to be the best. But I won't switch unless something 
>happens to what I have.  And even then, I'll think twice.  I work with the 
>wind, and I think you should too.  The wind unfurls my sail, and I point my

>boat to make it easy to furl it properly every time.  I had a lot of 
>trouble with the CDI I owned on a previous boat.
>
>I don't like a bimini--too much stuff where I don't want stuff.  Shade 
>loving people can be comfortable in the cabin, sailing with the pop-top up,

>sun loving people in the cockpit--if there is too much sun I sail in a 
>direction that allows my 175 genny to shade the entire cockpit.  When 
>sitting on anchor, some people go in the cabin, others in the cockpit.
>
>I have double opening cabin-top hatches and recommend them.  When up they 
>act as wind scoops for the cabin and keep it comfortable.  They also make 
>the head easier to use, and less confined.  Men can pee standing up--a 
>luxury not to be discounted.
>
>I don't like jacklines.  Too many sailors around here die while attached to

>them.  If you want to be able to clip-on, have Stan properly install 
>folding pad-eyes so you can clip on anywhere on the boat to something that 
>will prevent you from falling overboard no matter what happens.  Figure 
>that if you hit the water, even clipped onto to a jackline, or with a too 
>long a harness line, you're dead.  That is the truth more often than not 
>under these circumstances.  Jacklines allow you to fall overboard.  Pad 
>eyes with short harness lines will keep you on board.
>
>I love remote control motor linkage.  I prefer one lever rail mounted so 
>you push forward to go forward.  I don't have linked motor and tiller, and 
>have not felt the need to get it.
>
>As you may have gathered from the saga of Sheldon Green, heads are a 
>problem, mine included.  In my case, the intake gets clogged by barnacles, 
>and the aptly named "joker valve" fails repeatedly.  Long Island Sound 
>water creates odor problems because of all the stuff living in the water 
>which dies in my holding tank.  Michael attempted a solution on his boat 
>that I consider to be overkill.  I like the fresh water flush, and have 
>used it for the past 2 years.  I have 3 Poland Springs water bottles in the

>rack beside the head.  Squirt some water in the bowl. Do your business.  
>Squirt more water to clean the bowl.  Pump it out into the holding tank.  I

>refill bottles as needed from my fresh water system.  Easy to use for 
>people who have never used a marine head.  No levers to flip.  No potential

>to sink the boat.  The bottles ration the water to a reasonable quanta.  
>Being able to point the nozzle and squeeze the bottle cleans the bowl 
>better than any other method.  The fresh chlorinated water kills anything 
>in it.
>
>If you are going to trailer you will need the mast hoist system.
>
>I don't like the life rails.  No one has ever fallen off my boat or even 
>come close.  My 87 year old mother sails with me all the time in perfect 
>safety.  People stay in the cockpit where there's plenty to grab onto.
>
>I don't like built in instruments.  They always fail and you can never be 
>sure the information they are reporting is accurate.  Wiring constantly 
>fails.  Wireless instruments are becoming available, and I think they are 
>the wave of the future.  No wiring.  Solar powered. Throw them out if they 
>aren't working right.
>
>Give Stan plenty of time to build your boat properly.  Your boat will be 
>built for you.  Think through what you want.  Don't constantly change the 
>specifications.  Don't nag.  Make sure Stan always has enough money to be 
>able to buy the things for your boat that it needs.  Don't make him front 
>money for you.  Pre-pay if you think it will help him.  The boat will be 
>late, but once you have it, it will be just what you wanted, and you will 
>appreciate it every day for the rest of your life.  Nice people get better 
>boats.
>
>I went to Stan's web site while I was waiting for my boat, downloaded all 
>the pages, printed them all out, made a book for myself, and read that book

>over and over.  It was like waiting for my birthday when I was a kid and 
>anticipating how great the presents were going to be.  Only the boat turned

>out to be just as great as I thought it would be for all those months.
>
>I still have that book, and I still look at it from time to time because it

>can still make me have all those great feelings.
>
>If anyone has bothered to read this far, I'm sure you'll hear opposing 
>points of view.
>
>Bill Effros
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Nell
>To: Rhodes 22 mail list
>Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 7:47 PM
>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] New Rhodes Boat Owner
>
>
>Stan and I and my daughter went sailing on his boat today AFTER I put a 
>down
>payment on my very own Rhodes.
>The sail was fun and it was a clear, warm day, the last of July, and
>strangely there were only 4 other boats on the water.
>Go figure.
>I thought beautiful, warm weather, and a weekend, should bring everybody 
>out
>to play but not so.
>They missed a real treat.
>Stan is as much of a character to sail with as he is to talk to.
>I must admit he seemed a little hesitant to take my money.
>He kept saying "I want you to be sure".
>All right already. I'm sure.
>Now all I have to do is learn patience while he builds the boat.
>
>At his suggestion, I am opening myself up to lots of input to the following
>questions:
>Which of the couple of dozen "add-ons" to the boat would you Rhodes owners
>recommend?
>Stan talked me into a single axel trailer because I will be trailering on
>flat land over about 25 miles.
>He is trying to talk me out of an auto tiller. What do you all think?
>
>Seriously, I am planning on buying only this one boat in my lifetime and I
>want to be able to sail it when I am older and much less strong than I am
>now. So I wanted the package with the electric motor lift, etc.
>Stan says that he can do just fine with the manual lift at his age, a spry
>78.
>I wanted the self-tending jib.
>Stan says I don't want it. What's your opinion.
>
>By the way, I asked him how come we don't put a small refrigerator in place
>of the ice box that collects the water from the melting ice. I said the
>refrigerator could be kept at cold temperature by being hooked up to the
>electric dockside. Then when it's disconnected while out sailing, if we put
>a bag of ice in it, it would be like our home fridge during a power 
>failure.
>The ice could keep the food inside cold. The temperature would rise like it
>would do at home without current. The melting ice just needs to be placed 
>in
>the fridge so that when it melts, it could be collected for drinking water
>use just like it currently would be collected in the standard ice chest. 
>Any
>thoughts from you inventive types?
>
>I'm also thinking about a name for this boat. I suggested Black Widow
>because of an inside joke with Stan.
>Also Shadow's Ebb. I want something distinctive but not trite. Also, any
>suggestions?
>
>Thanks for the feedback in advance.
>
>nellwolfe
>
>
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