[Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad nauseam
Jim Connolly
jbconnolly at comcast.net
Tue Feb 17 20:00:07 EST 2004
Maybe on widdle lakes. Not on the mighty ocean.
OK, sometimes even on little lakes. See attached
Jim Connolly
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 9:39 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad nauseam
I don't know if you guys know this but If you have a motor on a fishing boat
& its your main motor but it will not throttle down enough to move from one
fishing hole to the next - You have the wrong motor on your
boat:-)Especially when you would have a DC trolling motor in the water that
you will have to pull up; go to the back of you boat & put the kicker in the
water because your main motor doesn't idle. Hummmmmm, But on a bright note;
this is the first time I have seen the 4 stroke justified like this. There
is an old sayings around here - Some folks have more Dollars than Sence. If
you are wanting to throw money away - then this make perfectly good sence.
However, you may want to add a 3rd motor on the back of that boat for when
both the 4 stroke break down:-) It only money, and it not mine:-) Steve
--- Jim Connolly <jbconnolly at comcast.net> wrote:
> Also, on my old Grady White I had a Yamaha 250 v-6
> 2- stroke. Kicker was a
> Yamaha 9.9 4-stroke for the very reason Russ Miller said. Advantage
> of mixing the two types of engine (in this case) was the 250 had
> automatic oil mixing. Fuel in tanks was not mixed, so the 9.9 ran off
> the same fuel tanks as the 250.
>
> FWIW
>
> Jim Connolly
> s/v Inisheer
> 1985 recycled 2003
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Russell
> Miller
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 6:22 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad
> nauseam
>
> They need the smaller motor for troling, etc. The big one does not
> throttle down enough.
>
> Russ
> s/v Bulldog
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 10:48 AM
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad
> nauseam
>
>
> > One thing that I would add. When you go to buy a
> new motor; pop off
> > the cover and ask yourself - What would I do if it
> stop working far
> > from shore? Make you think!!! FYI- Has everyone
> seen these Big Bass
> > Boats with those big 4 stroke motor - Have you
> notice they all are
> > carrying nowadays a 9.9 or 25 hp 2 stroke
> > Kicker:-) Wonder why???????????????
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Jim
> > > It manufactors make the 2 stroke meet standards;
> how can you say
> > > they will become a thing of the past? I don't
> know anyone that like
> > > a 4 stroke who has brought one. Their heavy and
> most folks can work
> > > on them themselfs. When you are out on the
> water & your motor goes
> > > out; being able to work on it yourself is more
> important than
> > > polluting the air and/or water.
> > > Besides, it is a well know fact that boat motors
> are not the big
> > > factor that pollute water. That like saying
> that smoking is the #1
> > > health problem of people. Everyone know that
> being FAT is the #1
> > > health problem. 2 stroke will not be done away
> with except on small
> > > bodies of water (that if the facts were known
> are poluted by things
> > > other that oil) & Calaforia (where all the
> crazy enviromentists
> > > live). The reasons most manufactors push 4
> strokes are that they
> > > get all the repair business. Why fall into that
> game.
> > > If you want to throw away your money; give it
> to me; I'll make good
> > > use of it and buy some Bourbon:-) Steve
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Jim White <jdwhite at panam.edu> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The 2 stroke 4 stroke debate is one that no
> > > only
> > > > in sailors circles,
> > > > but motorboat circles and generates
> spirited
> > > and
> > > > lively debate- it's
> > > > akin to arguing religion or politics. As a
> > > former
> > > > mechanic turned
> > > > biologist (marine), I work hand in hand
> with outboards, and
> > > > repair
> > > > shops at our facility each day. We probably
> log more water time
> > > > than
> > > > the average individual (I would guess).
> Here
> > > are
> > > > some of the things
> > > > that I have become aware of over the past
> > > several
> > > > years:
> > > > 1. Two stroke engines will very well soon
> be a thing of the
> > > > past.
> > > > Pressure at the federal level to reduce
> > > emissions
> > > > in the water, as
> > > > well as the air will cause the death of the
> 2-stroke. Common
> > > > sense
> > > > then tells us that it will become
> increasingly difficult to
> > > > obtain
> > > > parts for those out of manufacture engines.
> Yes all engines
> > > > pollute,
> > > > and modern two strokes pollute much less
> than older ones. There
> > > > are
> > > > real fears out there like folks who mix
> their
> > > oil
> > > > in the field (i.e.
> > > > in the parking lot or out on the water, and
> > > spill
> > > > directly, or older 2
> > > > strokes that mix into the gas tank by human
> addition of the
> > > > oil,
> > > > running around rich and smokey ("smoke
> pots").....these are all
> > > > well
> > > > founded fears that the regulators & and
> environmentalists
> > > > (especially)
> > > > justify in pushing out the good ol' 2
> stroke
> > > > 2. Four stroke engines are inherently
> heavier than two strokes
> > > > to a
> > > > certain point in horsepower rating (about
> 90 or so), at which
> > > > time the
> > > > weight becomes a non-issue. This makes a
> great deal of
> > > > difference to
> > > > the small engine/small boat owner,
> especially ones like
> > > > us....Manufacturers are working on cutting
> the weight of those
> > > > smaller
> > > > engines though, and the gap is closing
> there.
> > > > 3. Two stroke engines by virtue of
> operation
> > > have
> > > > a higher low end
> > > > torque which can be useful if you're
> powering a boat that needs
> > > > to
> > > > "get out of the hole" quickly....usually
> > > doesn't
> > > > apply to sailcraft.
> > > > However newer 4 strokes are quickly closing
> > > that
> > > > gap also.
> > > > 4. According to our shops, four stroke
> engines have fewer
> > > > problems,
> > > > and see far less down time and many of our
> > > former
> > > > two stroke engine
> > > > fishing guides, eco-tour operators, and
> especially sailboat
> > > > owners are
> > > > now turning to the 4 stroke with this fact
> as a major selling
> > > > point.
> > > > However, when a four stroke breaks, it can
> be a more costly
> > > > repair
> > > > than a comparable two stroke, but again,
> with design changes in
> > > > both
> > > > engines, the gap narrows here too.....
> > > > In any event, our facility has now plunged
> into the 4 stroke
> > > > world
> > > > along with the tide of others. BTW I have a
> > > 2002
> > > > 9.9 Honda 4stroke as
> > > > auxiliary (notice the previous word) power
> for
> > > my
> > > > newly acquired
> > > > Rhodes 22, Le Menagerie.
> > > > Cheers (and sorry for the lengthy
> diatribe/dissertation...
> > > > JDWHITE
> > > > At 05:57 AM 02/13/2004 -0800, you wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Wally
> > > > I can't remember where I read the article
> > > about
> > > > 2
> > > > strokes meeting standards; one of my sail
> mag
> > > > probably. But I would think you are
> right.
> > > If
> > > > the
> > > > smaller motors don't already; its just a
> > > matter
> > > > of
> > > > time.
> > > > Steve
> > > > --- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > I had heard that the new cleaner 2
> strokes were only
> > > > > coming out in the
> > > > > larger motors. Is this true? I got to
> think that the
> > > > > technolgy will trickly
> > > > > down to the smaller motors as well but
> you never
> > > > > know.....
> > > > >
> > > > > Wally
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Kroposki" <kroposki at innova.net>
> > > > > >Reply-To: kroposki at innova.net,The
> Rhodes
> > > 22
> > > > mail
> > > > > list
> > > > > ><rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > >To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > >Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle
> vs
> > > 4
> > > > cycle
> > > > > smoke
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:42:21 -0500
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Steve,
> > > > > > The issue is that new 2 cycle
> engines
> > > > are not
> > > > > smoke pots. They
> > > > > >more than comply with the current
> environmental
> > > > > standards and they will
> > > > > >comply with the new impending
> standards.
> > > > > > As for using oil, all gas motors
> use
> > > > oil and some
> > > > > of that
> > > > > >lubricating oil is combusted. The
> issue
> > > is
> > > > how
> > > > > much of that oil and gas
> > > > > >is wasted directly into the
> environment.
> > > > The old 2
> > > > > cycle engines did
> > > > > >not care. However, the EPA standards
> got the
> > > > > manufacturers attention
> > > > > >and the new engines do not
> statistically pollute
> > > > > the environment more
> > > > > >than 4 cycle engines which also spew
> pollutants.
> > > > > All gas engines
> > > > > >pollute. It is a matter of degree.
> When that
> > > > > degree is evaluated
> > > > > >statistically is the difference
> > > significant?
> > > > > Simply put, will the
> > > > > >impact difference between the two
> types of motors
> > > > > on the environment
> > > > > >really matter? A few years ago the
> answer was yes,
> > > > > however, with design
> > > > > >changes the effects are no longer
> statistically
> > > > > significant. They both
> > > > > >pollute.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> Ed
> > > K
> > > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > > >From:
> rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > >
> > > >
> >[[1]mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > > > > Behalf Of Steve
> > > > > >Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 9:01
> AM
> > > > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] 2 cycle
> vs 4 cycle
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I thought the reason they came out
> with 4 strocks
> > > > > were
> > > > > >to satify the Non-smoking folks:-) You
> > > know,
> > > > you
> > > > > have
> > > > > >a smoking part of a Restaurant; and a
> non-smoking
> > > > > >part. You can now have a smoking part
> of
> > > a
> > > > lake; &
> > > > > a
> > > > > >non-smoking part:-)You see, the more
> folks that go
> > > > > 4
> > > > > >stoke; that means the more folks that
> can
> > > go
> > > > 2
> > > > > stoke.
> > > > > >And the enviroment only get poluted
> the
> > > same
> > > > amount
> > > > > >that we have always done for
> > > years:-)Beside,
> > > > we
> > > > > need a
> > > > > >little more Globle warming. Temps
> here
> > > are
> > > > in the
> > > > > >40s. That evendent that we need to
> polute quite a
> > > > > bit
> > > > > >more. Arkansas need to be warm up so
> are winter
> > > > > stay
> > > > > >above 50 degrees:-)What are you
> thinking,
> > > > > Michael:-)
> > > > > >Steve
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- Michael Meltzer
> > > <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Well lets try a differ tack for the
> sessions
> > > > > version
> > > > > > > of the question, "So how much harm
> are you
> > > > > willing
> > > > > > > to cause, like: frogs
> > > > > > > killed, fish unfit to eat, woman
> miscarry,
> > > > > children
> > > > > > > born with birth defects, men going
> impememnt,
> > > > > etc..
> > > > > > > so you can selflessy use
> > > > > > > your 2 stoke". BTW did you beat
> your
> > > wife
> > > > to day
> > > > > :-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > MJM
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Kroposki"
> <kroposki at innova.net>
> > > > > > > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> > > > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004
> 9:12 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] 2 cycle vs
> 4 cycle
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Rummy,
> > > > > > > > Here we go again. I know better
> than question
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > technical
> > > > > > > > accuracy and efficacy of Roger's
> eloquent
> > > > > > > discussion, but I can lift my
> > > > > > > > 2 cycle when I have to by myself.
> > > > Roger
> > > > > forgets
> > > > > > > that not everybody has
> > > > > > > > two robust sons to help. It is
> the
> > > old
> > > > > problem of
> > > > > > > being able to see a
> > > > > > > > tree when you are in a forest.
> > > > > > > > Ed K
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From:
> > > > rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > [[2]mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]
> On
> > > > > > > Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11,
> 2004
> > > 7:52
> > > > AM
> > > > > > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]
> Yamaha
> > > 9.9
> > > > Water
> > > > > Pump
> > > > > > > Replacement
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jay,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The usual problem with the water
> pump
> > > > > impellors on
> > > > > > > small outboards is
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > they are made from some sort of
> > > rubber.
> > > > It's
> > > > > > > really a rather clever
> > > > > > > > design.
> > > > > > > > At low speed & at start-up, the
> > > rubber
> > > > vanes
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > the impellor touch the
> > > > > > > > water
> > > > > > > > pump housing, thus making the
> pump
> > > > positive
> > > > > > > displacement & self-priming.
> > > > > > > > At
> > > > > > > > high speed, the rubber vanes
> deflect
> > > > out of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > way & ride on top of a
> > > > > > > > boundary layer of water on the
> wetted
> > > > surface
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the water pump housing.
> > > > > > > > At
> > > > > > > > high speed, the vanes don't
> > > experience
> > > > any
> > > > > wear
> > > > > > > because they are not
> > > > > > > > touching the pump housing. This
> > > design
> > > > makes
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > water pump capable of
> > > > > > > > automatically switching from
> positive
> > > > > displacement
> > > > > > > mode to centrifugal
> > > > > > > > mode
> > > > > > > > for delivering the high volume of cooling
> > > > > water
> > > > > > > required by high speed
> > > > > > > > operation.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So what goes wrong? Well, if the
> > > water
> > > > pump
> > > > > ever
> > > > > > > runs dry, the rubber
> > > > > > > > impellor will lose the
> lubrication &
> > > > cooling
> > > > > > > provided by the water,
> > > > > > > > overheat, & destroy itself very quickly, like
> > > > > in a
> > > > > > > few seconds!
> > > > > > > > Exposure to
> > > > > > > > oil & gasoline in the water (like
> the
> > > > oil film
> > > > > > > that laid down by 2-cycle
> > > > > > > > outboards) will gradually break
> down
> > > > the
> > > > > rubber
> > > > > > > polymer molecules in the
> > > > > > > > impellor; leading to
> embrittlement,
> > > > cracking,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > failure. This is
> > > > > > > > probably
> > > > > > > > the single biggest long-term
> failure
> > > > > mechanism.
> > > > > > > Pump impellors should
> > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > routinely replaced every 4 years
> due
> > > to
> > > > this
> > > > > cause
> > > > > > > alone. There is also
> > > > > > > > another common failure mechanism related to
> > > > > > > storage. When the lower leg
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > lifted free of the water, the
> entire
> > > > cooling
> > > > > > > system drains down. This
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > why the water pump needs to be self-priming at
> > > > > > > start-up. Even fresh
> > > > > > > > water &
> > > > > > > > especially ocean water, has a
> certain
> > > > amount
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > dissolved mineral salts
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > it. When the cooling system
> drains
> > > > down, a
> > > > > small
> > > > > > > amount of water is
> > > > > > > > left
> > > > > > > > trapped in between the ends of
> the
> > > > vanes on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > water pump impellor &
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > aluminum pump housing. When this
> > > water
> > > > > eventually
> > > > > > > evaporates in
> > > > > > > > storage,
> > > > > > > > the impellor vanes can be bonded
> by
> > > > salt
> > > > > crystals
> > > > > > > to the pump housing.
> > > > > > > > Depending upon how strong this
> bond
> > > is,
> > > > the
> > > > > rubber
> > > > > > > impellor can be
> > > > > > > > damaged
> > > > > > > > the next time the engine is
> started
> > > > when the
> > > > > vanes
> > > > > > > are ripped free of
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > salt crystals. In addition, for
> the
> > > > 1st few
> > > > > > > minutes of operation,
> > > > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > the salt crystals dissolve, they
> form
> > > a
> > > > > relatively
> > > > > > > rough surface on the
> > > > > > > > water pump housing that the
> rubber
> > > > vanes have
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > run over on every
> > > > > > > > revolution. Finally, there can
> be
> > > > corrosion
> > > > > > > issues with moist salt
> > > > > > > > crystals
> > > > > > > > in long-term contact with the
> > > aluminum
> > > > pump
> > > > > > > housing in this scenario.
> > > > > > > > In
> > > > > > > > salt water, it's considered good practice to
> > > > > fresh
> > > > > > > water flush the
> > > > > > > > cooling
> > > > > > > > system after every use &
> certainly
> > > > before
> > > > > > > long-term storage. After
> > > > > > > > long-term storage, it wouldn't
> hurt
> > > to
> > > > fresh
> > > > > water
> > > > > > > flush the cooling
> > > > > > > > system
> > > > > > > > prior to start-up. As part of my outboard
> > > > > > > winterizing proceedure, I
> > > > > > > > flush
> > > > > > > > propylene gylcol potable
> antifreeze
> > > (RV
> > > > "red
> > > > > pop")
> > > > > > > thru the cooling
> > > > > > > > systems
> > > > > > > > of my outboards. propylene
> glycol
> > > will
> > > > > prevent
> > > > > > > the build-up of salt
> > > > > > > > crystals in-between the vanes and
> the
> > > > water
> > > > > pump
> > > > > > > housing. During the
> > > > > > > > boating season, on every
> start-up, I
> > > > gently
> > > > > pull
> > > > > > > the outboard thru with
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > pull cord prior to starting it to
> > > break
> > > > the
> > > > > water
> > > > > > > pump impellor free &
> > > > > > > > give
> > > > > > > > the engine several minutes of low
> > > speed
> > > > > warm-up.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The result, the only water pump
> I've
> > > > ever had
> > > > > fail
> > > > > > > on any of my
> > > > > > > > outboards in
> > > > > > > > 25+ years of boating was the time
> > > when
> > > > my
> > > > > younger
> > > > > > > son Gary ran the
> > > > > > > > inflatable dingy & Honda 9.9 hp outboard up on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > beach with the engine
> > > > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > full throttle. The water pump
> > > impellor
> > > > was
> > > > > burnt
> > > > > > > to a crisp!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Good luck!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > > > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "Michael Meltzer"
> > > > > <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
> > > > > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11,
> 2004
> > > 2:25
> > > > AM
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]
> Yamaha
> > > 9.9
> > > > Water
> > > > > Pump
> > > > > > > Replacement
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > sounds like overkill and make
> work,
> > > > maybe
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > impeller very 4 years,
> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > the complete pump, nah. you are
> only
> > > > putting
> > > > > 25-50
> > > > > > > hours on
> > > > > > > > > the motor every year, one thing
> you
> > > > do have
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > watch is salt on the
> > > > > > > > thermostat(and blow the pelages,
> > > clean
> > > > the pee
> > > > > tub
> > > > > > > yearly), is
> > > > > > > > > one of the few parts on the
> engine
> > > > that is
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > rust proof, time will
> > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > it and they need to be replace
> every
> > > > two
> > > > > years,
> > > > > > > luckily it
> > > > > > > > > is also a simple job that you
> can
> > > do
> > > > > yourself.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > MJM
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: "Jay Friedland"
> > > > <a.jayf at verizon.net>
> > > > > > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10,
> 2004
> > > > 11:25 AM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Yamaha
> 9.9
> > > > Water
> > > > > Pump
> > > > > > > Replacement
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Folks,
> > > > > > > > > > My ob service guy says Yam recommends
> > > > > > > replacing the water pump
> > > > > > > > assembly
> > > > > > > > > > every year. The motor is 2001
> > > with
> > > > this
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > first year in service.
> > > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > > in salt water 9-10 months, occasionally
> > > > > flush
> > > > > > > with ear muffs (once a
> > > > > > > > > > month), and end of season run
> it
> > > in
> > > > a
> > > > > barrel
> > > > > > > of fresh water for 1/2
> > > > > > > > > > hour (alos to burn off
> deposits,
> > > > etc.).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Anybody offer best
> suggestions on
> > > > > proceeding
> > > > > > > with this replacement
> > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > any other winter routine?
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Jay
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Use
> Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > > Help?
> > > > > > > [3]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > Help?
> > > > > > > [4]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> Help?
> > > > > > > [5]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> Help?
> > > > > > > [6]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> Help?
> > > > > >[7]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >__________________________________
> > > > > >Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > >Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast
> by
> > > > filing
> > > > > online.
> > > > > >[8]http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >__________________________________________________
> > > > > >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > > [9]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >__________________________________________________
> > > > > >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > > [10]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Keep up with high-tech trends here at
> > > "Hook'd
> > > > on
> > > > > Technology."
> > > > >
> > > >
> [11]http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > [12]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > __________________________________
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by
> > > filing
> > > > online.
> > > > [13]http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > >
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > [14]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > >
> > > > References
> > > >
> > > > 1.
> mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > 2.
> mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > 3. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > 4. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > 5. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > 6. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > 7. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > 8. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > 9. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > 10. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > 11.
> > > http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx
> > > > 12. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > 13. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > 14. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
> > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing
> online.
> > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
>
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
>
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
__________________________________________________
Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
-------------- next part --------------
Name: 03pg10_Lund2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 87545 bytes Desc: not available
Url: http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200402/17/03pg10_Lund2.jpg
More information about the Rhodes22-list
mailing list