[Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad nauseam
Steve
rhodes2282 at yahoo.com
Wed Feb 18 13:26:22 EST 2004
Yeah, Jim, I concur with that. I have a one 6 gallon
tank on my boat & never use much over half. That why
I don't worry about fuel econcomy or would factor that
into buying a new motor. With my 4.5 hp Johnson, I
spend less that 10 bucks a year on gas for my boat &
that the pre-mix stuff I buy from the dock. It would
be cheaper if I would buy it myself & mix it but what
the hell - a man got to splurge ones in a while:-)
Also, the manager of our dock is always complaining
that us sailboaters don't spend enough money at the
marina. So I guess it don't hurt for me to buy gas
from him, ones a year:-)
Steve
--- jbconnolly at comcast.net wrote:
> I do not claim to understand the lake fisherman
> mentality. ;-)
>
> OTOH, if you are going 50+ miles offshore, it's nice
> to have 2 motors, and they don't both have to
> produce 250 HP and cost $13,000. In addition to
> providing "get home" backup, you get a lot better
> control at slow speed for station keeping, less plug
> fouling on the big 2-stroke, and better fuel economy
> loitering over fishing spots. For further details,
> ask a real fisherman, I usually just drove the boat.
> Fuel economy is a consideration, even when you jave
> more than 150 gallons onboard, you can burn that in
> 6-8 yours with the big motor.
>
> Last year, I burned less than 3 gallons of gasoline
> all summer in my 2-stroke 8 HP Tohatsu. Life was
> good.
>
> I think we can all agree on that.
>
> Jim Connolly
> > Now Jim.
> > Look at the pictures. Seriously, does that not
> look
> > stupid. That boat need a 200 hp motor like I need
> a
> > hole in my head:-) That guy is trying to impress
> > someone but it not happening with me. That 200 hp
> > motor does nothing for helping his fishing. There
> was
> > a fishing tournament back in October. There were
> pics
> > in the paper of all these overpowered bass boats;
> but
> > what got me was the pic of the guy that won the
> > tournment - Proudly holding up this big bass (your
> > gonna love this) standing next to his 14 foot
> tri-hull
> > with a 50 hp motor:-)
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > --- Jim Connolly <jbconnolly at comcast.net> wrote:
> > > Maybe on widdle lakes. Not on the mighty ocean.
> > >
> > >
> > > OK, sometimes even on little lakes. See
> attached
> > >
> > > Jim Connolly
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Steve
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 9:39 AM
> > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>
> > > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4
> > > cycle smoke: ad nauseam
> > >
> > > I don't know if you guys know this but If you
> have a
> > > motor on a fishing boat
> > > & its your main motor but it will not throttle
> down
> > > enough to move from one
> > > fishing hole to the next - You have the wrong
> motor
> > > on your
> > > boat:-)Especially when you would have a DC
> trolling
> > > motor in the water that
> > > you will have to pull up; go to the back of you
> boat
> > > & put the kicker in the
> > > water because your main motor doesn't idle.
> > > Hummmmmm, But on a bright note;
> > > this is the first time I have seen the 4 stroke
> > > justified like this. There
> > > is an old sayings around here - Some folks have
> more
> > > Dollars than Sence. If
> > > you are wanting to throw money away - then this
> make
> > > perfectly good sence.
> > > However, you may want to add a 3rd motor on the
> back
> > > of that boat for when
> > > both the 4 stroke break down:-) It only money,
> and
> > > it not mine:-) Steve
> > >
> > >
>
> > > --- Jim Connolly <jbconnolly at comcast.net> wrote:
> > > > Also, on my old Grady White I had a Yamaha 250
> v-6
> > > > 2- stroke. Kicker was a
> > > > Yamaha 9.9 4-stroke for the very reason Russ
> > > Miller said. Advantage
> > > > of mixing the two types of engine (in this
> case)
> > > was the 250 had
> > > > automatic oil mixing. Fuel in tanks was not
> > > mixed, so the 9.9 ran off
> > > > the same fuel tanks as the 250.
> > > >
> > > > FWIW
> > > >
> > > > Jim Connolly
> > > > s/v Inisheer
> > > > 1985 recycled 2003
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Russell
> > > > Miller
> > > > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 6:22 PM
> > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs
> 4
> > > cycle smoke: ad
> > > > nauseam
> > > >
> > > > They need the smaller motor for troling, etc.
> The
> > > big one does not
> > > > throttle down enough.
> > > >
> > > > Russ
> > > > s/v Bulldog
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > > From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 10:48 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs
> 4
> > > cycle smoke: ad
> > > > nauseam
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > One thing that I would add. When you go to
> buy
> > > a
> > > > new motor; pop off
> > > > > the cover and ask yourself - What would I do
> if
> > > it
> > > > stop working far
> > > > > from shore? Make you think!!! FYI- Has
> > > everyone
> > > > seen these Big Bass
> > > > > Boats with those big 4 stroke motor - Have
> you
> > > > notice they all are
> > > > > carrying nowadays a 9.9 or 25 hp 2 stroke
> > > > > Kicker:-) Wonder why???????????????
> > > > > Steve
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > It manufactors make the 2 stroke meet
> > > standards;
> > > > how can you say
> > > > > > they will become a thing of the past? I
> don't
> > > > know anyone that like
> > > > > > a 4 stroke who has brought one. Their
> heavy
> > > and
>
> > > > most folks can work
> > > > > > on them themselfs. When you are out on
> the
> > > > water & your motor goes
> > > > > > out; being able to work on it yourself is
> more
> > > > important than
> > > > > > polluting the air and/or water.
> > > > > > Besides, it is a well know fact that boat
> > > motors
> > > > are not the big
> > > > > > factor that pollute water. That like
> saying
> > > > that smoking is the #1
> > > > > > health problem of people. Everyone know
> that
> > > > being FAT is the #1
> > > > > > health problem. 2 stroke will not be done
> > > away
> > > > with except on small
> > > > > > bodies of water (that if the facts were
> known
> > > > are poluted by things
> > > > > > other that oil) & Calaforia (where all
> the
> > > > crazy enviromentists
> > > > > > live). The reasons most manufactors push
> 4
> > > > strokes are that they
> > > > > > get all the repair business. Why fall
> into
> > > that
> > > > game.
> > > > > > If you want to throw away your money;
> give it
> > > > to me; I'll make good
> > > > > > use of it and buy some Bourbon:-) Steve
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > --- Jim White <jdwhite at panam.edu> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The 2 stroke 4 stroke debate is one
> that
> > > no
> > > > > > only
> > > > > > > in sailors circles,
> > > > > > > but motorboat circles and generates
> > > > spirited
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > lively debate- it's
> > > > > > > akin to arguing religion or politics.
> As
> > > a
> > > > > > former
> > > > > > > mechanic turned
> > > > > > > biologist (marine), I work hand in
> hand
> > > > with outboards, and
> > > > > > > repair
> > > > > > > shops at our facility each day. We
> > > probably
> > > > log more water time
> > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > the average individual (I would
> guess).
> > > > Here
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > some of the things
> > > > > > > that I have become aware of over the
> past
> > > > > > several
> > > > > > > years:
> > > > > > > 1. Two stroke engines will very well
> soon
> > > > be a thing of the
> > > > > > > past.
> > > > > > > Pressure at the federal level to
> reduce
> > > > > > emissions
> > > > > > > in the water, as
>
> > > > > > > well as the air will cause the death
> of
> > > the
> > > > 2-stroke. Common
> > > > > > > sense
> > > > > > > then tells us that it will become
> > > > increasingly difficult to
> > > > > > > obtain
> > > > > > > parts for those out of manufacture
> > > engines.
> > > > Yes all engines
> > > > > > > pollute,
> > > > > > > and modern two strokes pollute much
> less
> > > > than older ones. There
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > real fears out there like folks who
> mix
> > > > their
> > > > > > oil
> > > > > > > in the field (i.e.
> > > > > > > in the parking lot or out on the
> water,
> > > and
> > > > > > spill
> > > > > > > directly, or older 2
> > > > > > > strokes that mix into the gas tank by
> > > human
> > > > addition of the
> > > > > > > oil,
> > > > > > > running around rich and smokey
> ("smoke
> > > > pots").....these are all
> > > > > > > well
> > > > > > > founded fears that the regulators &
> and
> > > > environmentalists
> > > > > > > (especially)
> > > > > > > justify in pushing out the good ol' 2
> > > > stroke
>
> > > > > > > 2. Four stroke engines are
> inherently
> > > > heavier than two strokes
> > > > > > > to a
> > > > > > > certain point in horsepower rating
> (about
> > > > 90 or so), at which
> > > > > > > time the
> > > > > > > weight becomes a non-issue. This
> makes a
> > > > great deal of
> > > > > > > difference to
> > > > > > > the small engine/small boat owner,
> > > > especially ones like
> > > > > > > us....Manufacturers are working on
> > > cutting
> > > > the weight of those
> > > > > > > smaller
> > > > > > > engines though, and the gap is
> closing
> > > > there.
> > > > > > > 3. Two stroke engines by virtue of
> > > > operation
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > a higher low end
> > > > > > > torque which can be useful if you're
> > > > powering a boat that needs
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > "get out of the hole"
> quickly....usually
> > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > apply to sailcraft.
> > > > > > > However newer 4 strokes are quickly
> > > closing
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > gap also.
> > > > > > > 4. According to our shops, four
> stroke
> > > > engines have fewer
>
> > > > > > > problems,
> > > > > > > and see far less down time and many
> of
> > > our
> > > > > > former
> > > > > > > two stroke engine
> > > > > > > fishing guides, eco-tour operators,
> and
> > > > especially sailboat
> > > > > > > owners are
> > > > > > > now turning to the 4 stroke with this
> > > fact
> > > > as a major selling
> > > > > > > point.
> > > > > > > However, when a four stroke breaks,
> it
> > > can
> > > > be a more costly
> > > > > > > repair
> > > > > > > than a comparable two stroke, but
> again,
> > > > with design changes in
> > > > > > > both
> > > > > > > engines, the gap narrows here
> too.....
> > > > > > > In any event, our facility has now
> > > plunged
> > > > into the 4 stroke
> > > > > > > world
> > > > > > > along with the tide of others. BTW I
> have
> > > a
> > > > > > 2002
> > > > > > > 9.9 Honda 4stroke as
> > > > > > > auxiliary (notice the previous word)
> > > power
> > > > for
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > > newly acquired
> > > > > > > Rhodes 22, Le Menagerie.
> > > > > > > Cheers (and sorry for the lengthy
> > > > diatribe/dissertation...
>
> > > > > > > JDWHITE
> > > > > > > At 05:57 AM 02/13/2004 -0800, you
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wally
> > > > > > > I can't remember where I read the
> > > article
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > 2
> > > > > > > strokes meeting standards; one of
> my
> > > sail
> > > > mag
> > > > > > > probably. But I would think you
> are
> > > > right.
> > > > > > If
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > smaller motors don't already; its
> just
> > > a
> > > > > > matter
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > time.
> > > > > > > Steve
> > > > > > > --- Wally Buck
> <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > I had heard that the new cleaner
> 2
> > > > strokes were only
> > > > > > > > coming out in the
> > > > > > > > larger motors. Is this true? I
> got to
> > > > think that the
> > > > > > > > technolgy will trickly
> > > > > > > > down to the smaller motors as
> well
> > > but
> > > > you never
> > > > > > > > know.....
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Wally
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: "Kroposki"
>
> > > <kroposki at innova.net>
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To:
> kroposki at innova.net,The
> > > > Rhodes
> > > > > > 22
> > > > > > > mail
> > > > > > > > list
> > > > > > > > ><rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > > > >To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> > > > > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > > > >Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2
> > > cycle
> > > > vs
> > > > > > 4
> > > > > > > cycle
> > > > > > > > smoke
> > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:42:21
> > > -0500
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Steve,
> > > > > > > > > The issue is that new 2
> cycle
> > > > engines
> > > > > > > are not
> > > > > > > > smoke pots. They
> > > > > > > > >more than comply with the
> current
> > > > environmental
> > > > > > > > standards and they will
> > > > > > > > >comply with the new impending
> > > > standards.
> > > > > > > > > As for using oil, all gas
> > > motors
> > > > use
> > > > > > > oil and some
> > > > > > > > of that
> > > > > > > > >lubricating oil is combusted.
> The
> > > > issue
> > > > > > is
>
> > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > much of that oil and gas
> > > > > > > > >is wasted directly into the
> > > > environment.
> > > > > > > The old 2
> > > > > > > > cycle engines did
> > > > > > > > >not care. However, the EPA
> > > standards
> > > > got the
> > > > > > > > manufacturers attention
> > > > > > > > >and the new engines do not
> > > > statistically pollute
> > > > > > > > the environment more
> > > > > > > > >than 4 cycle engines which also
> spew
> > > > pollutants.
> > > > > > > > All gas engines
> > > > > > > > >pollute. It is a matter of
> degree.
> > > > When that
> > > > > > > > degree is evaluated
> > > > > > > > >statistically is the difference
> > > > > > significant?
> > > > > > > > Simply put, will the
> > > > > > > > >impact difference between the
> two
> > > > types of motors
> > > > > > > > on the environment
> > > > > > > > >really matter? A few years ago
> the
> > > > answer was yes,
> > > > > > > > however, with design
> > > > > > > > >changes the effects are no
> longer
>
> > > > statistically
> > > > > > > > significant. They both
> > > > > > > > >pollute.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
>
> > >
> > > > Ed
> > > > > > K
> > > > > > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > >From:
> > > > rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> >[[1]mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > > > > > > > Behalf Of Steve
> > > > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, February 12,
> 2004
> > > 9:01
> > > > AM
> > > > > > > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] 2
> cycle
> > > > vs 4 cycle
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >I thought the reason they came
> out
> > > > with 4 strocks
> > > > > > > > were
> > > > > > > > >to satify the Non-smoking
> folks:-)
> > > You
> > > > > > know,
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > >a smoking part of a Restaurant;
> and
> > > a
> > > > non-smoking
> > > > > > > > >part. You can now have a
> smoking
> > > part
> > > > of
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > lake; &
>
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > >non-smoking part:-)You see, the
> more
> > > > folks that go
> > > > > > > > 4
> > > > > > > > >stoke; that means the more folks
> > > that
> > > > can
> > > > > > go
> > > > > > > 2
> > > > > > > > stoke.
> > > > > > > > >And the enviroment only get
> poluted
> > > > the
> > > > > > same
> > > > > > > amount
> > > > > > > > >that we have always done for
> > > > > > years:-)Beside,
> > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > need a
> > > > > > > > >little more Globle warming.
> Temps
> > > > here
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > in the
> > > > > > > > >40s. That evendent that we need
> to
> > > > polute quite a
> > > > > > > > bit
> > > > > > > > >more. Arkansas need to be warm
> up
> > > so
> > > > are winter
> > > > > > > > stay
> > > > > > > > >above 50 degrees:-)What are you
> > > > thinking,
> > > > > > > > Michael:-)
> > > > > > > > >Steve
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >--- Michael Meltzer
> > > > > > <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > Well lets try a differ tack
> for
> > > the
> > > > sessions
> > > > > > > > version
> > > > > > > > > > of the question, "So how much
> > > harm
> > > > are you
> > > > > > > > willing
> > > > > > > > > > to cause, like: frogs
> > > > > > > > > > killed, fish unfit to eat,
> woman
> > > > miscarry,
> > > > > > > > children
> > > > > > > > > > born with birth defects, men
> > > going
> > > > impememnt,
> > > > > > > > etc..
> > > > > > > > > > so you can selflessy use
> > > > > > > > > > your 2 stoke". BTW did you
> beat
> > > > your
> > > > > > wife
> > > > > > > to day
> > > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > MJM
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > From: "Kroposki"
> > > > <kroposki at innova.net>
> > > > > > > > > > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail
> list'"
> > > > > > > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11,
> > > 2004
> > > > 9:12 AM
>
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] 2
> cycle
> > > vs
> > > > 4 cycle
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Rummy,
> > > > > > > > > > > Here we go again. I know
> > > better
> > > > than question
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > technical
> > > > > > > > > > > accuracy and efficacy of
> > > Roger's
> > > > eloquent
> > > > > > > > > > discussion, but I can lift my
> > > > > > > > > > > 2 cycle when I have to by
> > > myself.
> > > > > > > Roger
> > > > > > > > forgets
> > > > > > > > > > that not everybody has
> > > > > > > > > > > two robust sons to help.
> It is
> > > > the
> > > > > > old
> > > > > > > > problem of
> > > > > > > > > > being able to see a
> > > > > > > > > > > tree when you are in a
> forest.
> > > > > > > > > > > Ed K
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > > From:
> > > > > > > rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
>
> > > [[2]mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]
> > > > On
> > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February
> 11,
> > > > 2004
> > > > > > 7:52
> > > > > > > AM
> > > > > > > > > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re:
> [Rhodes22-list]
> > > > Yamaha
> > > > > > 9.9
> > > > > > > Water
> > > > > > > > Pump
> > > > > > > > > > Replacement
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Jay,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The usual problem with the
> > > water
> > > > pump
> > > > > > > > impellors on
> > > > > > > > > > small outboards is
> > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > they are made from some
> sort of
> > > > > > rubber.
> > > > > > > It's
> > > > > > > > > > really a rather clever
> > > > > > > > > > > design.
> > > > > > > > > > > At low speed & at start-up,
> the
> > > > > > rubber
> > > > > > > vanes
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > the impellor touch the
> > > > > > > > > > > water
>
> > > > > > > > > > > pump housing, thus making
> the
> > > > pump
> > > > > > > positive
> > > > > > > > > > displacement & self-priming.
> > > > > > > > > > > At
> > > > > > > > > > > high speed, the rubber
> vanes
> > > > deflect
> > > > > > > out of
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > way & ride on top of a
> > > > > > > > > > > boundary layer of water on
> the
> > > > wetted
> > > > > > > surface
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > the water pump housing.
> > > > > > > > > > > At
> > > > > > > > > > > high speed, the vanes don't
> > > > > > experience
> > > > > > > any
> > > > > > > > wear
> > > > > > > > > > because they are not
> > > > > > > > > > > touching the pump housing.
> > > This
> > > > > > design
> > > > > > > makes
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > water pump capable of
> > > > > > > > > > > automatically switching
> from
> > > > positive
> > > > > > > > displacement
> > > > > > > > > > mode to centrifugal
> > > > > > > > > > > mode
>
> > > > > > > > > > > for delivering the high
> volume
> > > of cooling
> > > > > > > > water
> > > > > > > > > > required by high speed
> > > > > > > > > > > operation.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So what goes wrong? Well,
> if
> > > the
> > > > > > water
> > > > > > > pump
> > > > > > > > ever
> > > > > > > > > > runs dry, the rubber
> > > > > > > > > > > impellor will lose the
> > > > lubrication &
> > > > > > > cooling
> > > > > > > > > > provided by the water,
> > > > > > > > > > > overheat, & destroy itself
> very
> > > quickly, like
> > > > > > > > in a
> > > > > > > > > > few seconds!
> > > > > > > > > > > Exposure to
> > > > > > > > > > > oil & gasoline in the water
> > > (like
> > > > the
> > > > > > > oil film
> > > > > > > > > > that laid down by 2-cycle
> > > > > > > > > > > outboards) will gradually
> break
> > > > down
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > rubber
> > > > > > > > > > polymer molecules in the
> > > > > > > > > > > impellor; leading to
> > > > embrittlement,
>
> > > > > > > cracking,
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > failure. This is
> > > > > > > > > > > probably
> > > > > > > > > > > the single biggest
> long-term
> > > > failure
> > > > > > > > mechanism.
> > > > > > > > > > Pump impellors should
> > > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > routinely replaced every 4
> > > years
> > > > due
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > cause
> > > > > > > > > > alone. There is also
> > > > > > > > > > > another common failure
> > > mechanism related to
> > > > > > > > > > storage. When the lower leg
> > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > lifted free of the water,
> the
> > > > entire
> > > > > > > cooling
> > > > > > > > > > system drains down. This
> > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > why the water pump needs to
> be
> > > self-priming at
> > > > > > > > > > start-up. Even fresh
> > > > > > > > > > > water &
> > > > > > > > > > > especially ocean water, has
> a
> > > > certain
> > > > > > > amount
> > > > > > > > of
>
> > > > > > > > > > dissolved mineral salts
> > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > it. When the cooling
> system
> > > > drains
> > > > > > > down, a
> > > > > > > > small
> > > > > > > > > > amount of water is
> > > > > > > > > > > left
> > > > > > > > > > > trapped in between the ends
> of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > vanes on
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > water pump impellor &
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > aluminum pump housing.
> When
> > > this
> > > > > > water
> > > > > > > > eventually
> > > > > > > > > > evaporates in
> > > > > > > > > > > storage,
> > > > > > > > > > > the impellor vanes can be
> > > bonded
> > > > by
> > > > > > > salt
> > > > > > > > crystals
> > > > > > > > > > to the pump housing.
> > > > > > > > > > > Depending upon how strong
> this
> > > > bond
> > > > > > is,
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > rubber
> > > > > > > > > > impellor can be
> > > > > > > > > > > damaged
> > > > > > > > > > > the next time the engine is
> > > > started
>
> > > > > > > when the
> > > > > > > > vanes
> > > > > > > > > > are ripped free of
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > salt crystals. In
> addition,
> > > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > > 1st few
> > > > > > > > > > minutes of operation,
> > > > > > > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > > > > the salt crystals dissolve,
> > > they
> > > > form
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > relatively
> > > > > > > > > > rough surface on the
> > > > > > > > > > > water pump housing that the
> > > > rubber
> > > > > > > vanes have
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > run over on every
> > > > > > > > > > > revolution. Finally, there
> can
> > > > be
> > > > > > > corrosion
> > > > > > > > > > issues with moist salt
> > > > > > > > > > > crystals
> > > > > > > > > > > in long-term contact with
> the
> > > > > > aluminum
> > > > > > > pump
> > > > > > > > > > housing in this scenario.
> > > > > > > > > > > In
> > > > > > > > > > > salt water, it's considered
> > > good practice to
> > > > > > > > fresh
>
> > > > > > > > > > water flush the
> > > > > > > > > > > cooling
> > > > > > > > > > > system after every use &
> > > > certainly
> > > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > > > long-term storage. After
> > > > > > > > > > > long-term storage, it
> wouldn't
> > > > hurt
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > fresh
> > > > > > > > water
> > > > > > > > > > flush the cooling
> > > > > > > > > > > system
> > > > > > > > > > > prior to start-up. As part
> of
> > > my outboard
> > > > > > > > > > winterizing proceedure, I
> > > > > > > > > > > flush
> > > > > > > > > > > propylene gylcol potable
> > > > antifreeze
> > > > > > (RV
> > > > > > > "red
> > > > > > > > pop")
> > > > > > > > > > thru the cooling
> > > > > > > > > > > systems
> > > > > > > > > > > of my outboards. propylene
> > > > glycol
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > prevent
> > > > > > > > > > the build-up of salt
> > > > > > > > > > > crystals in-between the
> vanes
> > > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > > water
> > > > > > > > pump
>
> > > > > > > > > > housing. During the
> > > > > > > > > > > boating season, on every
> > > > start-up, I
> > > > > > > gently
> > > > > > > > pull
> > > > > > > > > > the outboard thru with
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > pull cord prior to starting
> it
> > > to
> > > > > > break
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > water
> > > > > > > > > > pump impellor free &
> > > > > > > > > > > give
> > > > > > > > > > > the engine several minutes
> of
> > > low
> > > > > > speed
> > > > > > > > warm-up.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The result, the only water
> pump
> > > > I've
> > > > > > > ever had
> > > > > > > > fail
> > > > > > > > > > on any of my
> > > > > > > > > > > outboards in
> > > > > > > > > > > 25+ years of boating was
> the
> > > time
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > younger
> > > > > > > > > > son Gary ran the
> > > > > > > > > > > inflatable dingy & Honda
> 9.9 hp
> > > outboard up on
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > beach with the engine
>
> > > > > > > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > > > full throttle. The water
> pump
> > > > > > impellor
> > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > burnt
> > > > > > > > > > to a crisp!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Good luck!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > > > > > > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message
> -----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: "Michael Meltzer"
> > > > > > > > <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail
> list"
> > > > > > > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February
> 11,
> > > > 2004
> > > > > > 2:25
> > > > > > > AM
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re:
> [Rhodes22-list]
> > > > Yamaha
> > > > > > 9.9
> > > > > > > Water
> > > > > > > > Pump
> > > > > > > > > > Replacement
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > sounds like overkill and
> make
> > > > work,
> > > > > > > maybe
> > > > > > > > the
>
> > > > > > > > > > impeller very 4 years,
> > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > the complete pump, nah. you
> are
> > > > only
> > > > > > > putting
> > > > > > > > 25-50
> > > > > > > > > > hours on
> > > > > > > > > > > > the motor every year, one
> > > thing
> > > > you
> > > > > > > do have
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > watch is salt on the
> > > > > > > > > > > thermostat(and blow the
> > > pelages,
> > > > > > clean
> > > > > > > the pee
> > > > > > > > tub
> > > > > > > > > > yearly), is
> > > > > > > > > > > > one of the few parts on
> the
> > > > engine
> > > > > > > that is
> > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > rust proof, time will
> > > > > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > > > it and they need to be
> replace
> > > > every
> > > > > > > two
> > > > > > > > years,
> > > > > > > > > > luckily it
> > > > > > > > > > > > is also a simple job that
> you
> > > > can
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > yourself.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > MJM
> > > > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message
> -----
> > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Jay Friedland"
> > > > > > > <a.jayf at verizon.net>
> > > > > > > > > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail
> list"
> > > > > > > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February
> 10,
> > > > 2004
> > > > > > > 11:25 AM
> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list]
> > > Yamaha
> > > > 9.9
> > > > > > > Water
> > > > > > > > Pump
> > > > > > > > > > Replacement
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Folks,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > My ob service guy says
> Yam
> > > recommends
> > > > > > > > > > replacing the water pump
> > > > > > > > > > > assembly
> > > > > > > > > > > > > every year. The motor
> is
> > > 2001
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > first year in service.
> > > > > > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > > > in salt water 9-10
> months,
> > > occasionally
> > > > > > > > flush
>
> > > > > > > > > > with ear muffs (once a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > month), and end of
> season
> > > run
> > > > it
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > barrel
> > > > > > > > > > of fresh water for 1/2
> > > > > > > > > > > > > hour (alos to burn off
> > > > deposits,
> > > > > > > etc.).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Anybody offer best
> > > > suggestions on
> > > > > > > > proceeding
> > > > > > > > > > with this replacement
> > > > > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > > > > any other winter
> routine?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Jay
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Use
> > > > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > > > > > Help?
> > > > > > > > > > [3]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > Use
> > > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > > > > Help?
> > > > > > > > > > [4]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > Use
> Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
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> > > > > > > >
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> > > >
> __________________________________________________
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> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Use
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>
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> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> >__________________________________
> > > > > > > > >Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund
> fast
> > > > by
> > > > > > > filing
> > > > > > > > online.
> > > > > > > >
> > > >[8]http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
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> > > > > > > > >
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> > > > >
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> > >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Keep up with high-tech trends
> here at
> > > > > > "Hook'd
>
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > Technology."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> [11]http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
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> > > > > > > [12]www.rhodes22.org/list
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> > > > > > filing
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> > > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> Help?
> > > > > > > [14]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > References
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1.
> > > > mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > > 2.
> > > > mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > > 3. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > 4. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>
> > > > > > > 5. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > 6. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > 7. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > 8. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > > > > 9. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > 10. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > 11.
> > > > > >
> http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx
> > > > > > > 12. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > 13. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > > > > 14. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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> > > > > >
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> filing
> > > online.
> > > > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > > >
> > > >
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> > > > >
> > > > >
>
> > > > > __________________________________
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> > > > > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by
> filing
> > > > online.
> > > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > >
> > >
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> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
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> > >
> > >
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> > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > >
> __________________________________________________
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> > > bytes Desc: not available
> > > Url:
> > >
>
> >
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