[Rhodes22-list]reply to comment on mast hoist on Rhodes 22

Thu Jul 1 23:42:49 EDT 2004

Ed, are you saying that you don't sail with the trailer attached
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
To: "'stan'" <stan at rhodes22.com>; "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
<rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:21 PM
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list]reply to comment on mast hoist on Rhodes 22

But, But, But Stan:

If you mount the winch on the trailer, you can not raise and lower
the mast on the water!  That light on the mast does burn out at inconvenient
times.  I just do not see a need to put the boat on a trailer to change the
light bulb.  Now if Rummy were here, he would say that his carpenter friend
Rodger can shimmy up the mast to change the light bulb, but I can not.
Wasn't there a Rhodie who used it on the water to get under a bridge to sail
upriver?

Ed K

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of stan
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 8:02 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]reply to comment on mast hoist on Rhodes 22

Our mast hoist system, being so big,  looked over my shoulder and has a few
choice comments in response to the comments referring to her:

She was pleased that her supporters referred to her light weight.

She was disappointed that no one mentioned that you can sail the boat
without touching her. The carrier is designed so it can stay put while
sailing, since the double aluminum legs of the transom carrier are designed
to not interfere with the tiller steering.  Even the crane can remain either
standing against the mast, or lowered to the deck without disconnect from
its cabin top deck plate - or can stow inside the cabin or under the cockpit
seats.

And she wanted to point out that one of her admirers was correct in that the
special brake winch (that lets you go to the bathroom with the mast sitting
at any angle until you get back) is the heavy part of the crane and can be
mounted on the trailer instead.

stan/gbi

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Gardner, Douglas (LNG-DAY)" <douglas.gardner at lexisnexis.com>
To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:20 PM
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list]reply to comment on mast hoist on Rhodes 22

> Ummm... one thing I left out is the mast crutch!  I don't think you're
going
> to be able to make THAT very compact (well, unless you have Roger's!).  I
> suppose it could be designed to collapse and fold, but at that point I
think
> you may be better off with a different boat.  It seems that if you need a
> portable mast hoist that much, your needs are just diverging a bit too
much
> from where the R22 is.
>
> Sounds like Menger time...
>
> --Doug
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Gardner, Douglas
> (LNG-DAY)
> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:14 PM
> To: 'The Rhodes 22 mail list'
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list]reply to comment on mast hoist on Rhodes 22
>
>
> Hi Ed,
>
>     Yeah, but I'm willing to cut him some slack, for now.  People on most
> discussion groups are still used to using aliases rather than signing
their
> real name.  Comes from the open nature of most of the lists.  He probably
> doesn't realize yet that we're still relatively protected here (less so
than
> in the past, when we had no online archive?), and that we have a strong
norm
> for traditional politeness, which includes identification. (So, Nic, or
> Vic... you might note that we like to know who we're talking to.  So
please
> introduce yourself.  Who are you?  What do you sail?  etc.)
>
>    Still, Ed, you're correct about the fact that you really need to see
the
> system operate to appreciate it.  For example, it isn't clear from the
> picture that the GB pole is aluminum and actually pretty light.  Still,
Vic
> or Nic is right that it could probably be made more compact.  When you
only
> use the thing a couple of times a year and don't keep it on the boat,
there
> is less need to engineer it to be storable than if you use it every time
you
> go out!
>
> A couple of thoughts on how that might be done:
> The big heavy thing on this is the winch.  So, if you could use the
trailer
> winch, you could eliminate that. All you'd need to do is redirect the path
> to go over the bow and then lead toward the deck cleat so that your
geometry
> is correct (the pole goes down to the cleat).  A bow roller and block
looped
> over the cleat could take care of that. The problem is, if you use the
> trailer winch, you'd only be able to use the crane on the trailer.
Wouldn't
> help for bridges.  Frankly, I don't think I'd trust the boat winches to do
> it.  One slip and someone gets hurt, so that isn't really an option, in my
> opinion.
>
> The other issue with the bulkiness is the size of the pole.  I'd be
> uncomfortable using a collapsible pole, so I think you're stuck with the
> length.
>
> My take on it is that I think you could design the system to be more
compact
> and still maintain its strength.  I don't have the answer to it, though.
>
> If you really needed to carry it on the boat, you could probably rig up an
> under-seat mount for it.  Not particularly convenient, though.  I think
the
> real answer if you need to frequently rig-derig is to use a standard rig
> instead of IMF or buy a catboat.
>
> Just my 2 cents.  ;^)
>
> --Doug G
> S/V Fretnaught
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of ed kroposki
> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 4:50 PM
> To: 'The Rhodes 22 mail list'
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list]reply to comment on mast hoist on Rhodes 22
>
>
> Doug:
>
> Have you noticed that this guy (?) be it nick (?), Vic (?), mike (?) who
> refuses to sign and then calls the crane system bulky when he has never
seen
> or used it.  He comes from the middle of Minnesota and someone in that
part
> of the country needs to invite him to see the boat and mast hoist system.
> He needs to touch it so he understands what is involved.
>
> Ed K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Gardner, Douglas
> (LNG-DAY)
> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 2:04 PM
> To: 'The Rhodes 22 mail list'
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] raising mast on Rhodes 22
>
> FWIW,
>
> This GB system uses the lower shrouds to raise the mast, and the upper
> shrouds and other set of lower shrouds to stabilize it. (Is that what you
> mean when you talk about the "mini stays?")
>
> The system is sized to raise the IMF mast, which is much heavier than the
> standard mast.  Not only is the extrusion much larger, but the main and
> genoa are both raised with the mast.  I haven't weighed it, but my guess
is
> that the load is at least double what you would have if you raised a
> standard mast alone.
>
> So... I'd caution against using a much lighter system to raise an IMF mast
> without doing the engineering to make sure you don't overload any
component.
> If you are raising a standard mast... well, let's just say I've seen a lot
> of folks with 25' boats do it by having their wives pull on the jib
halyard
> from in front of the boat while they step it by hand.
>
> Now, the system could probably be redesigned to be less bulky and still be
> as strong.  Sounds like an interesting project.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Business
> International Group, LLC
> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 1:27 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] raising mast on Rhodes 22
>
>
> I saw the photos and it certainly looks stable but very bulky.  If you use
> mini stays on the mast which allow the mast to rotate forward and prevent
it
> from going sideways, you can have a much more compact pole, fast and easy
to
> take along in case you need to lower the mast under low bridges.
>
>
> on 7/1/04 8:23 AM, ed kroposki at ekroposki at charter.net wrote:
>
> > Nic (vic?)(you never sign)
> >
> > With the Rhodes 22 there is a mast hoist system that is much more
> > than a gin pole.  It is a balanced system mounted to the cabin top.  It
is
> > based on the principle of a gin pole, but it is secured to the cabin top
> > (base) and has a line to the front deck cleat.  It uses the two back
> inside
> > stays to actually hoist the mast with the poles descending movement.
The
> > other six stays act as guides and stabilizing support while raising and
> > lowering.  The current version of the system is quite safe and
efficient.
> > One person can raise and lower the mast without dropping the mast on his
> > head.  This can be done on the water or on the trailer!
> > However, according to Stan caution should still be used.
> >
> > Ed K
> > R22 South Carolina
> > ~~~~~~~ _/) ~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > In remembrance, Rummy may he sail in peace.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Business
> > International Group, LLC
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 9:32 PM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] raising mast on Rhodes 22
> >
> > Are you saying you actually bought a mast hoise?? I'm thinking about the
> > small crane like devices marinas use to hoist a mast.  Ever think about
> > using a Gin pole instead.  That way you're not limited to one location
> > unless somehow your hoist is moveable.
> >
> > on 6/29/04 8:19 AM, Dennis Narehood at dennis_narehood at att.net wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >> Stan suggested I ask the list and try to contact Jay Friedland.
> >>
> >> I got a recycled Rhodes 22 in August last year.  Love it.  Taking down
> >> the mast was a disaster.  We tried to do it manually and I dropped it
on
> > my
> >> head.
> >>
> >> We bought a mast hoist In January and I almost have the boat repaired
and
> >> back in shape. (Waiting for plastic shims for the spreaders ).
> >>
> >>
> >> Is there anyone in Barnegat bay area around Toms river that could check
> my
> >> work and guide me through raising the mast using the hoist system?
> >> Thanks
> >> Dennis
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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