[Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements

Steve Alm salm at mn.rr.com
Wed Jul 28 01:10:32 EDT 2004 

I've got my trailer at my house now and I taken some measurements and
compared them to Todd's.  Most of the parameters are within close proximity
with one glaring exception.  My axle is about 8-10 inches forward.  This
would definitely make all the difference.

Slim

On 7/27/04 5:59 AM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:

> Slim,
> 
> With my proposed jack stand modification you weld 4 small jack stands to the
> frame of the trailer, so the tops are well below bunk level.  If your boat has
> to be moved on the trailer you simply screw up the jack stands using the hand
> cranks to the point where the boat is gently resting in the bunks instead of
> fully supported by the bunks.  Place a block of wood under the keel, and back
> off the jacks so the weight of the boat is resting on the wood block.
> 
> At this point you can move the trailer to where you want it under the boat,
> sliding the boat on the bunks.  Once you know your sweet spot you can get the
> boat to it in less than 5 minutes total.
> 
> If you would like to test this method before committing to it, get 4 bottle
> jacks.  Put one under each corner of the frame of your trailer.  Jack the boat
> on its trailer high enough so you can get the block of wood under the keel.
> Back off the bottle jacks.  Move the trailer.
> 
> This will probably take more than 5 minutes, but it demonstrates the principle
> at minimal cost.
> 
> Bill
> 
> PS -- If you crash your boat into the jack stands on your modified trailer I
> don't want to hear about it, however if you try this and it works well I'd
> love to know, because I'll do the same thing based on your experience.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Alm 
> To: Rhodes 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 1:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements
> 
> 
> Bill,
> 
> Here's my situation at this point:  When landing Fandango, I can't get it
> far enough forward on the trailer.  Many attempts, various ramps,  various
> depths,  etc. but always the same result.  At least it's consistent.  If
> only the balance were right, it'd be nearly foolproof!  That part gives me
> hope.
> 
> This spring I bought a pair of WM boat stands and a floor jack.  And I have
> trailer jacks on the rear corners of the trailer, and together with the
> tongue jack, I raise the trailer as high as it will go on its 3 jacks. This
> raises the trailer wheels off the ground. Then I put the boat stands under
> the stern quarters and can even raise the hull up some more by cranking the
> screws on the boat stands.  Then I pull the tongue extension out of the way
> and put the floor jack under the bow, jack it up as high as it will go.  At
> this point, you can lower the trailer jacks and the boat is perched on the
> floor jack at the bow and the two boat stands in the stern--a nice, sturdy
> tripod. Even if one of those stands were to fail, the trailer bunks are only
> inches below.  
> 
> Now I go to the trailer's bow winch clipped to the bow eye of the boat and,
> with the boat on the hard, I winch the trailer backwards--farther under the
> boat.  I have to lift the boat off the trailer in this way in order to
> position the trailer under the boat at the correct balance point, i.e., to
> get enough tongue weight.  Needless to say this is a royal PITA, albeit
> doable.  
> 
> Roger's not the only one to modify a trailer.  Rik posted his changes too.
> I saved their recommendations as well as Todd's dimensions,  and I'm just
> gonna have to go for it.  But when it comes right down to it, I'm going to
> have to guess at how far to move the axle back.  Is there a formula for
> this?  I'm thinking about 6".
> 
> Slim
> 
> 
> On 7/26/04 10:35 PM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> 
>> Slim,
>> 
>> If you can make a better trailer than the one Stan builds, Stan will give you
>> his blessings.  You know that.  My comments were addressed only to the idea
>> of
>> copying what Stan built without either obtaining his permission, or paying
>> him
>> for doing so.  I know you, as a musician, are well acquainted with this
>> concept.
>> 
>> With regard to trailers, you should probably convince Roger to build one for
>> you to Roger's own specifications, or get Roger to send you a set of plans so
>> you can duplicate his trailer which is a successful home-built of his own
>> design.  (Personally I would avoid his glow-in-the-dark model,
>> notwithstanding
>> its possible nighttime safety advantages.)
>> 
>> I would like to see someone build a Rhodes trailer with on-board Jack Stands
>> so the boat could easily be lifted off the bunks for painting and below
>> waterline, off season chores.  If someone develops and tests that concept,
>> I'd
>> be a buyer, and I'd happily pay my share for all the dropped wrecked boats
>> destroyed while trying to make this idea work.
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Steve Alm 
>> To: Rhodes 
>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements
>> 
>> 
>> Bill,
>> 
>> So what's a guy to do?  Are you saying that I have no other options than to
>> trailer my boat all the way to Edenton (there's the first problem--I'll
>> probably kill myself or someone else in the process)  so that Stan can
>> adjust my trailer to fit my boat--all boats being a little different?  If
>> Stan himself doesn't do the work, I'm opening myself up to hellish
>> consequences?  
>> 
>> Honestly, Bill, I'm not trying to be an argumentative PITA here--but I need
>> to get my trailer fixed and I'm not going to pull it to GBI.  As much as I'd
>> like to, that's just not an option.  I need to be able to put my faith in a
>> reputable shop in MN with realistic specs and get this job done.  It can't
>> be that hard--can it?
>> 
>> I bought the Rhodes because it's supposed to be a trailerable rig. At this
>> point, mine is simply not, and I don't mind saying I'm more than a little
>> disappointed.  I love sailing the R22 but if I can't solve this problem I
>> don't want it.  It's not safe!
>> 
>> Slim
>> 
>> 
>> On 7/26/04 8:30 PM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Slim,
>>> 
>>> If you are reading these in order you saw Stan gave his blessing to those
>>> repairing and building their trailers.  As always, he is very generous in
>>> these matters.  Also I have dozens of postings wherein Stan has suggested
>>> methods for moving the center of gravity to improve the trailer for
>>> individual
>>> boats.
>>> 
>>> My original reply to Herb was primarily for newer members of the list who
>>> may
>>> not have thought through this matter, and its ramifications.  Herb responded
>>> generously multiple times.  That was all I was asking.  Thank you, Herb.
>>> 
>>> With regard to using an engineer as a lawyer, I would strongly urge against
>>> it.  If you honestly believe you can take a full set of plans for a Ford,
>>> that
>>> you received from a third party, and take them to Toyota, and have Toyota
>>> build you just one Ford for your personal use and eventual sale to an
>>> unwitting fourth party...you could wind up in jail before you get back to
>>> Brazil.  Patent law would be the least of your problems--there are dozens of
>>> laws on the books prohibiting this activity.
>>> 
>>> Bill Effros
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Steve Alm
>>> To: Rhodes 
>>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:38 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bill,
>>> 
>>> I hope you don't feel badly of me for asking, but speaking as one of those
>>> who has had a great deal of trouble with my trailer, just exactly how
>>> intellectual is this property?  After all, mine is a lemon.
>>> 
>>> Having not purchased my boat and trailer from GBI, I have no certainty
>>> whatsoever if Stan put his stamp of approval on my rig before it left the
>>> shop so I know better than to point fingers--but the fact remains that I
>>> have to rebuild my trailer.  Last year, when I posted my complaints, even
>>> Stan said I need to have my axle moved.  This is no small modification.
>>> 
>>> Now, I'd like nothing more than to bring the boat and trailer to Stan and
>>> ask him to fix it for me, but I live in MN.  There must be a better option.
>>> If I had the correct specs, I'd take the rig to a qualified shop here at
>>> home and have them do the work.  I'm not qualified to do this kind of work
>>> myself so I need some help, i.e., specs to give to the shop that does the
>>> work.
>>> 
>>> Thank you, Roger, for reminding us of the legalities of this.  If I have
>>> this work done here in MN and then something goes dreadfully wrong, I won't
>>> be liable--the shop that does the work will be the target of any litigation.
>>> I'm certainly not going into production and sales of R22 trailers--I just
>>> want mine to work.
>>> 
>>> Slim
>>> 
>>> On 7/26/04 11:31 AM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Herb,
>>>> 
>>>> I'm an author who earns a living off my intellectual property.  I think
>>>> it's
>>>> wrong for people to buy what I've written, make a copy, and send the copy
>>>> to
>>>> their friends without paying me for my work.
>>>> 
>>>> Stan spent a lot of time and money developing these trailers.  Anyone can
>>>> look
>>>> at them, say "that's a good idea" and copy the concept, and modify their
>>>> own
>>>> trailer, or have someone else build one--to their own specifications.
>>>> 
>>>> But to ask people on the list to measure the trailers they have bought from
>>>> Stan, and to send you the measurements, so you can build your own trailer,
>>>> or
>>>> teach someone else how to build these trailers, without paying Stan for his
>>>> intellectual property, is wrong, in my view.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm sure that is not what you were thinking when you asked the question,
>>>> and
>>>> I
>>>> do not think badly of you for asking it.  This has come up many times
>>>> before,
>>>> and I only sometimes respond in this way.
>>>> 
>>>> But I do think it's wrong, and I haven't said anything about it for a
>>>> while.
>>>> 
>>>> By the way,  there have been people who extended your idea of "send me the
>>>> trailer measurements," to "why not copy and sell the whole boat"--let me
>>>> borrow your boat, I'll make molds from it, we'll make our own exact copies
>>>> of
>>>> the boat, we'll sell them and split the profit--if we don't have to pay
>>>> anything for R&D we can easily sell them for less than Stan can sell them
>>>> for.
>>>> 
>>>> Essentially that's what you're trying to do in the trailer department, in
>>>> my
>>>> view.
>>>> 
>>>> Bill Effros
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Herb Parsons
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>> Cc: bill at parsonsys.net
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:44 AM
>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I saw on here that someone had posted information about the trailer
>>>> measurements for a Rhodes 22. I assume this was bunkboard settings and
>>>> such.
>>>> I
>>>> thought I had saved the original email, but could not find it. If someone
>>>> has
>>>> that information, I would be grateful if you could pass it on to me. The
>>>> Rhodes 22 we are trying to set up a trailer for is a 1983 model. Thanks in
>>>> advance.
>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>> 
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