[Rhodes22-list] From Single to Tandem?

[ed kroposki]

Slim:

It has been done before.  Check archives as to who did it last.  I think
within the last two years.  

I thought we were going to see some pictures of Brazil or did miss something
in all the ruckus of the last few weeks.

Ed K

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Steve Alm
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 3:51 PM
To: Rhodes
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements

Hi Julie,

Thanks again for the offer.  Here's what we decided:  After lots of phone
calls and running around, I finally found a well-recommended welding shop
that has done hundreds of trailers.  The guy took about two hours to look
the trailer over, explore all the options and pricing out each one.  We
discovered that the original axle is only rated for 3500 lbs.  The boat and
trailer combined well exceed that, so not only would I have to move the
axle, I'd also have to upgrade to a 3" 6000 lb. axle and 16" tires.

Next, we considered leaving the original and adding a second 3500 lb. axle.
After lots of discussion and a phone call to Stan, we decided to go with the
tandem axle.  Stan's first reaction was, "Well, then you can afford two
flats."  8-)  The disadvantage being that it's harder to maneuver the
trailer around by hand when the boats not on it.  It doesn't turn as easily.
But it's going to totally solve the tongue weight and balance problem once
and for all, and there will be no more of that fishtailing.  It should track
down the road much better.

We went out and had a fantastic sail on Tuesday.  Hope to see you soon.

Slim 

On 7/27/04 7:16 AM, "Julie Thorndycraft" <julie at circle7.net> wrote:

> Slim,
> When Blue Loon gets back from Ontario/Lake Superior, come over and take
> measurements off of our trailer. We have learned that we have to have the
> aft side of the third portlight either in front of the axle or right on
top
> of it.
> 
> Our trailer (Triad model built for the Rhodes), hauls the boat great if we
> follow that guideline. If we don't then we get to drive 45mph and have
white
> knuckles.
> 
> We've been using the Regional Park on Mtka, which has a great ramp. I take
> the boat across the lake and Dan backs the trailer in as he sees me coming
> around the corner, I drive on, and he pulls the boat out of the water.
We've
> been driving the boat with the mast up to the top of the hill where the
> trailer lot is located. Then we can take all the time in the world to get
> things tied down. We've been doing the same for the launch.
> 
> Get some quotes before you spend a bunch of money on your trailer. You may
> find that it makes sense to buy a new Triad. Otherwise, Blue Loon will be
> back on Lake Minnetonka around August 3rd and will be staying in the lake
> until Labor Day when she's off to the Upper Peninsula. You can borrow our
> trailer anytime during that period.
> 
> Julie
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Alm" <salm at mn.rr.com>
> To: "Rhodes" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 12:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements
> 
> 
>> Bill,
>> 
>> Here's my situation at this point:  When landing Fandango, I can't get it
>> far enough forward on the trailer.  Many attempts, various ramps,
various
>> depths,  etc. but always the same result.  At least it's consistent.  If
>> only the balance were right, it'd be nearly foolproof!  That part gives
me
>> hope.
>> 
>> This spring I bought a pair of WM boat stands and a floor jack.  And I
> have
>> trailer jacks on the rear corners of the trailer, and together with the
>> tongue jack, I raise the trailer as high as it will go on its 3 jacks.
> This
>> raises the trailer wheels off the ground. Then I put the boat stands
under
>> the stern quarters and can even raise the hull up some more by cranking
> the
>> screws on the boat stands.  Then I pull the tongue extension out of the
> way
>> and put the floor jack under the bow, jack it up as high as it will go.
> At
>> this point, you can lower the trailer jacks and the boat is perched on
the
>> floor jack at the bow and the two boat stands in the stern--a nice,
sturdy
>> tripod. Even if one of those stands were to fail, the trailer bunks are
> only
>> inches below.
>> 
>> Now I go to the trailer's bow winch clipped to the bow eye of the boat
> and,
>> with the boat on the hard, I winch the trailer backwards--farther under
> the
>> boat.  I have to lift the boat off the trailer in this way in order to
>> position the trailer under the boat at the correct balance point, i.e.,
to
>> get enough tongue weight.  Needless to say this is a royal PITA, albeit
>> doable.
>> 
>> Roger's not the only one to modify a trailer.  Rik posted his changes
too.
>> I saved their recommendations as well as Todd's dimensions,  and I'm just
>> gonna have to go for it.  But when it comes right down to it, I'm going
to
>> have to guess at how far to move the axle back.  Is there a formula for
>> this?  I'm thinking about 6".
>> 
>> Slim
>> 
>> 
>> On 7/26/04 10:35 PM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Slim,
>>> 
>>> If you can make a better trailer than the one Stan builds, Stan will
> give you
>>> his blessings.  You know that.  My comments were addressed only to the
> idea of
>>> copying what Stan built without either obtaining his permission, or
> paying him
>>> for doing so.  I know you, as a musician, are well acquainted with this
>>> concept.
>>> 
>>> With regard to trailers, you should probably convince Roger to build one
> for
>>> you to Roger's own specifications, or get Roger to send you a set of
> plans so
>>> you can duplicate his trailer which is a successful home-built of his
> own
>>> design.  (Personally I would avoid his glow-in-the-dark model,
> notwithstanding
>>> its possible nighttime safety advantages.)
>>> 
>>> I would like to see someone build a Rhodes trailer with on-board Jack
> Stands
>>> so the boat could easily be lifted off the bunks for painting and below
>>> waterline, off season chores.  If someone develops and tests that
> concept, I'd
>>> be a buyer, and I'd happily pay my share for all the dropped wrecked
> boats
>>> destroyed while trying to make this idea work.
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Steve Alm
>>> To: Rhodes
>>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:19 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bill,
>>> 
>>> So what's a guy to do?  Are you saying that I have no other options than
> to
>>> trailer my boat all the way to Edenton (there's the first problem--I'll
>>> probably kill myself or someone else in the process)  so that Stan can
>>> adjust my trailer to fit my boat--all boats being a little different?
> If
>>> Stan himself doesn't do the work, I'm opening myself up to hellish
>>> consequences?
>>> 
>>> Honestly, Bill, I'm not trying to be an argumentative PITA here--but I
> need
>>> to get my trailer fixed and I'm not going to pull it to GBI.  As much as
> I'd
>>> like to, that's just not an option.  I need to be able to put my faith
> in a
>>> reputable shop in MN with realistic specs and get this job done.  It
> can't
>>> be that hard--can it?
>>> 
>>> I bought the Rhodes because it's supposed to be a trailerable rig. At
> this
>>> point, mine is simply not, and I don't mind saying I'm more than a
> little
>>> disappointed.  I love sailing the R22 but if I can't solve this problem
> I
>>> don't want it.  It's not safe!
>>> 
>>> Slim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 7/26/04 8:30 PM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Slim,
>>>> 
>>>> If you are reading these in order you saw Stan gave his blessing to
> those
>>>> repairing and building their trailers.  As always, he is very generous
> in
>>>> these matters.  Also I have dozens of postings wherein Stan has
> suggested
>>>> methods for moving the center of gravity to improve the trailer for
>>>> individual
>>>> boats.
>>>> 
>>>> My original reply to Herb was primarily for newer members of the list
> who may
>>>> not have thought through this matter, and its ramifications.  Herb
> responded
>>>> generously multiple times.  That was all I was asking.  Thank you,
> Herb.
>>>> 
>>>> With regard to using an engineer as a lawyer, I would strongly urge
> against
>>>> it.  If you honestly believe you can take a full set of plans for a
> Ford,
>>>> that
>>>> you received from a third party, and take them to Toyota, and have
> Toyota
>>>> build you just one Ford for your personal use and eventual sale to an
>>>> unwitting fourth party...you could wind up in jail before you get back
> to
>>>> Brazil.  Patent law would be the least of your problems--there are
> dozens of
>>>> laws on the books prohibiting this activity.
>>>> 
>>>> Bill Effros
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Steve Alm
>>>> To: Rhodes
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:38 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Bill,
>>>> 
>>>> I hope you don't feel badly of me for asking, but speaking as one of
> those
>>>> who has had a great deal of trouble with my trailer, just exactly how
>>>> intellectual is this property?  After all, mine is a lemon.
>>>> 
>>>> Having not purchased my boat and trailer from GBI, I have no certainty
>>>> whatsoever if Stan put his stamp of approval on my rig before it left
> the
>>>> shop so I know better than to point fingers--but the fact remains that
> I
>>>> have to rebuild my trailer.  Last year, when I posted my complaints,
> even
>>>> Stan said I need to have my axle moved.  This is no small modification.
>>>> 
>>>> Now, I'd like nothing more than to bring the boat and trailer to Stan
> and
>>>> ask him to fix it for me, but I live in MN.  There must be a better
> option.
>>>> If I had the correct specs, I'd take the rig to a qualified shop here
> at
>>>> home and have them do the work.  I'm not qualified to do this kind of
> work
>>>> myself so I need some help, i.e., specs to give to the shop that does
> the
>>>> work.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you, Roger, for reminding us of the legalities of this.  If I
> have
>>>> this work done here in MN and then something goes dreadfully wrong, I
> won't
>>>> be liable--the shop that does the work will be the target of any
> litigation.
>>>> I'm certainly not going into production and sales of R22 trailers--I
> just
>>>> want mine to work.
>>>> 
>>>> Slim
>>>> 
>>>> On 7/26/04 11:31 AM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Herb,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm an author who earns a living off my intellectual property.  I
> think it's
>>>>> wrong for people to buy what I've written, make a copy, and send the
> copy to
>>>>> their friends without paying me for my work.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Stan spent a lot of time and money developing these trailers.  Anyone
> can
>>>>> look
>>>>> at them, say "that's a good idea" and copy the concept, and modify
> their own
>>>>> trailer, or have someone else build one--to their own specifications.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But to ask people on the list to measure the trailers they have bought
> from
>>>>> Stan, and to send you the measurements, so you can build your own
> trailer,
>>>>> or
>>>>> teach someone else how to build these trailers, without paying Stan
> for his
>>>>> intellectual property, is wrong, in my view.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm sure that is not what you were thinking when you asked the
> question, and
>>>>> I
>>>>> do not think badly of you for asking it.  This has come up many times
>>>>> before,
>>>>> and I only sometimes respond in this way.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But I do think it's wrong, and I haven't said anything about it for a
> while.
>>>>> 
>>>>> By the way,  there have been people who extended your idea of "send me
> the
>>>>> trailer measurements," to "why not copy and sell the whole boat"--let
> me
>>>>> borrow your boat, I'll make molds from it, we'll make our own exact
> copies
>>>>> of
>>>>> the boat, we'll sell them and split the profit--if we don't have to
> pay
>>>>> anything for R&D we can easily sell them for less than Stan can sell
> them
>>>>> for.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Essentially that's what you're trying to do in the trailer department,
> in my
>>>>> view.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Herb Parsons
>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>>> Cc: bill at parsonsys.net
>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:44 AM
>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I saw on here that someone had posted information about the trailer
>>>>> measurements for a Rhodes 22. I assume this was bunkboard settings and
> such.
>>>>> I
>>>>> thought I had saved the original email, but could not find it. If
> someone
>>>>> has
>>>>> that information, I would be grateful if you could pass it on to me.
> The
>>>>> Rhodes 22 we are trying to set up a trailer for is a 1983 model.
> Thanks in
>>>>> advance.
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> 
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>>> 
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>> 
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> 
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