[Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements

Thu Jul 29 21:33:50 EDT 2004

Steve,
Look for Blue Loon, she just got splashed back in the Lake. I'm waiting for
Dan to get home - he's a couple days early - long story, I'm sure you'll
hear about it offline. If you're sailing this weekend, let's try to hook up.
Need to find out where the good overnight anchorages are.

As for the trailer, you're right that the two-axle will solve the fish-tail
problem. And how often do you really need to manuever the trailer by hand?
Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Alm" <salm at mn.rr.com>
To: "Rhodes" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements

> Hi Julie,
>
> Thanks again for the offer.  Here's what we decided:  After lots of phone
> calls and running around, I finally found a well-recommended welding shop
> that has done hundreds of trailers.  The guy took about two hours to look
> the trailer over, explore all the options and pricing out each one.  We
> discovered that the original axle is only rated for 3500 lbs.  The boat
and
> trailer combined well exceed that, so not only would I have to move the
> axle, I'd also have to upgrade to a 3" 6000 lb. axle and 16" tires.
>
> Next, we considered leaving the original and adding a second 3500 lb.
axle.
> After lots of discussion and a phone call to Stan, we decided to go with
the
> tandem axle.  Stan's first reaction was, "Well, then you can afford two
> flats."  8-)  The disadvantage being that it's harder to maneuver the
> trailer around by hand when the boats not on it.  It doesn't turn as
easily.
> But it's going to totally solve the tongue weight and balance problem once
> and for all, and there will be no more of that fishtailing.  It should
track
> down the road much better.
>
> We went out and had a fantastic sail on Tuesday.  Hope to see you soon.
>
> Slim
>
> On 7/27/04 7:16 AM, "Julie Thorndycraft" <julie at circle7.net> wrote:
>
> > Slim,
> > When Blue Loon gets back from Ontario/Lake Superior, come over and take
> > measurements off of our trailer. We have learned that we have to have
the
> > aft side of the third portlight either in front of the axle or right on
top
> > of it.
> >
> > Our trailer (Triad model built for the Rhodes), hauls the boat great if
we
> > follow that guideline. If we don't then we get to drive 45mph and have
white
> > knuckles.
> >
> > We've been using the Regional Park on Mtka, which has a great ramp. I
take
> > the boat across the lake and Dan backs the trailer in as he sees me
coming
> > around the corner, I drive on, and he pulls the boat out of the water.
We've
> > been driving the boat with the mast up to the top of the hill where the
> > trailer lot is located. Then we can take all the time in the world to
get
> > things tied down. We've been doing the same for the launch.
> >
> > Get some quotes before you spend a bunch of money on your trailer. You
may
> > find that it makes sense to buy a new Triad. Otherwise, Blue Loon will
be
> > back on Lake Minnetonka around August 3rd and will be staying in the
lake
> > until Labor Day when she's off to the Upper Peninsula. You can borrow
our
> > trailer anytime during that period.
> >
> > Julie
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve Alm" <salm at mn.rr.com>
> > To: "Rhodes" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 12:01 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements
> >
> >
> >> Bill,
> >>
> >> Here's my situation at this point:  When landing Fandango, I can't get
it
> >> far enough forward on the trailer.  Many attempts, various ramps,
various
> >> depths,  etc. but always the same result.  At least it's consistent.
If
> >> only the balance were right, it'd be nearly foolproof!  That part gives
me
> >> hope.
> >>
> >> This spring I bought a pair of WM boat stands and a floor jack.  And I
> > have
> >> trailer jacks on the rear corners of the trailer, and together with the
> >> tongue jack, I raise the trailer as high as it will go on its 3 jacks.
> > This
> >> raises the trailer wheels off the ground. Then I put the boat stands
under
> >> the stern quarters and can even raise the hull up some more by cranking
> > the
> >> screws on the boat stands.  Then I pull the tongue extension out of the
> > way
> >> and put the floor jack under the bow, jack it up as high as it will go.
> > At
> >> this point, you can lower the trailer jacks and the boat is perched on
the
> >> floor jack at the bow and the two boat stands in the stern--a nice,
sturdy
> >> tripod. Even if one of those stands were to fail, the trailer bunks are
> > only
> >> inches below.
> >>
> >> Now I go to the trailer's bow winch clipped to the bow eye of the boat
> > and,
> >> with the boat on the hard, I winch the trailer backwards--farther under
> > the
> >> boat.  I have to lift the boat off the trailer in this way in order to
> >> position the trailer under the boat at the correct balance point, i.e.,
to
> >> get enough tongue weight.  Needless to say this is a royal PITA, albeit
> >> doable.
> >>
> >> Roger's not the only one to modify a trailer.  Rik posted his changes
too.
> >> I saved their recommendations as well as Todd's dimensions,  and I'm
just
> >> gonna have to go for it.  But when it comes right down to it, I'm going
to
> >> have to guess at how far to move the axle back.  Is there a formula for
> >> this?  I'm thinking about 6".
> >>
> >> Slim
> >>
> >>
> >> On 7/26/04 10:35 PM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Slim,
> >>>
> >>> If you can make a better trailer than the one Stan builds, Stan will
> > give you
> >>> his blessings.  You know that.  My comments were addressed only to the
> > idea of
> >>> copying what Stan built without either obtaining his permission, or
> > paying him
> >>> for doing so.  I know you, as a musician, are well acquainted with
this
> >>> concept.
> >>>
> >>> With regard to trailers, you should probably convince Roger to build
one
> > for
> >>> you to Roger's own specifications, or get Roger to send you a set of
> > plans so
> >>> you can duplicate his trailer which is a successful home-built of his
> > own
> >>> design.  (Personally I would avoid his glow-in-the-dark model,
> > notwithstanding
> >>> its possible nighttime safety advantages.)
> >>>
> >>> I would like to see someone build a Rhodes trailer with on-board Jack
> > Stands
> >>> so the boat could easily be lifted off the bunks for painting and
below
> >>> waterline, off season chores.  If someone develops and tests that
> > concept, I'd
> >>> be a buyer, and I'd happily pay my share for all the dropped wrecked
> > boats
> >>> destroyed while trying to make this idea work.
> >>>
> >>> Bill
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: Steve Alm
> >>> To: Rhodes
> >>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Bill,
> >>>
> >>> So what's a guy to do?  Are you saying that I have no other options
than
> > to
> >>> trailer my boat all the way to Edenton (there's the first
problem--I'll
> >>> probably kill myself or someone else in the process)  so that Stan can
> >>> adjust my trailer to fit my boat--all boats being a little different?
> > If
> >>> Stan himself doesn't do the work, I'm opening myself up to hellish
> >>> consequences?
> >>>
> >>> Honestly, Bill, I'm not trying to be an argumentative PITA here--but I
> > need
> >>> to get my trailer fixed and I'm not going to pull it to GBI.  As much
as
> > I'd
> >>> like to, that's just not an option.  I need to be able to put my faith
> > in a
> >>> reputable shop in MN with realistic specs and get this job done.  It
> > can't
> >>> be that hard--can it?
> >>>
> >>> I bought the Rhodes because it's supposed to be a trailerable rig. At
> > this
> >>> point, mine is simply not, and I don't mind saying I'm more than a
> > little
> >>> disappointed.  I love sailing the R22 but if I can't solve this
problem
> > I
> >>> don't want it.  It's not safe!
> >>>
> >>> Slim
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 7/26/04 8:30 PM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Slim,
> >>>>
> >>>> If you are reading these in order you saw Stan gave his blessing to
> > those
> >>>> repairing and building their trailers.  As always, he is very
generous
> > in
> >>>> these matters.  Also I have dozens of postings wherein Stan has
> > suggested
> >>>> methods for moving the center of gravity to improve the trailer for
> >>>> individual
> >>>> boats.
> >>>>
> >>>> My original reply to Herb was primarily for newer members of the list
> > who may
> >>>> not have thought through this matter, and its ramifications.  Herb
> > responded
> >>>> generously multiple times.  That was all I was asking.  Thank you,
> > Herb.
> >>>>
> >>>> With regard to using an engineer as a lawyer, I would strongly urge
> > against
> >>>> it.  If you honestly believe you can take a full set of plans for a
> > Ford,
> >>>> that
> >>>> you received from a third party, and take them to Toyota, and have
> > Toyota
> >>>> build you just one Ford for your personal use and eventual sale to an
> >>>> unwitting fourth party...you could wind up in jail before you get
back
> > to
> >>>> Brazil.  Patent law would be the least of your problems--there are
> > dozens of
> >>>> laws on the books prohibiting this activity.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: Steve Alm
> >>>> To: Rhodes
> >>>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:38 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Bill,
> >>>>
> >>>> I hope you don't feel badly of me for asking, but speaking as one of
> > those
> >>>> who has had a great deal of trouble with my trailer, just exactly how
> >>>> intellectual is this property?  After all, mine is a lemon.
> >>>>
> >>>> Having not purchased my boat and trailer from GBI, I have no
certainty
> >>>> whatsoever if Stan put his stamp of approval on my rig before it left
> > the
> >>>> shop so I know better than to point fingers--but the fact remains
that
> > I
> >>>> have to rebuild my trailer.  Last year, when I posted my complaints,
> > even
> >>>> Stan said I need to have my axle moved.  This is no small
modification.
> >>>>
> >>>> Now, I'd like nothing more than to bring the boat and trailer to Stan
> > and
> >>>> ask him to fix it for me, but I live in MN.  There must be a better
> > option.
> >>>> If I had the correct specs, I'd take the rig to a qualified shop here
> > at
> >>>> home and have them do the work.  I'm not qualified to do this kind of
> > work
> >>>> myself so I need some help, i.e., specs to give to the shop that does
> > the
> >>>> work.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you, Roger, for reminding us of the legalities of this.  If I
> > have
> >>>> this work done here in MN and then something goes dreadfully wrong, I
> > won't
> >>>> be liable--the shop that does the work will be the target of any
> > litigation.
> >>>> I'm certainly not going into production and sales of R22 trailers--I
> > just
> >>>> want mine to work.
> >>>>
> >>>> Slim
> >>>>
> >>>> On 7/26/04 11:31 AM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm an author who earns a living off my intellectual property.  I
> > think it's
> >>>>> wrong for people to buy what I've written, make a copy, and send the
> > copy to
> >>>>> their friends without paying me for my work.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Stan spent a lot of time and money developing these trailers.
Anyone
> > can
> >>>>> look
> >>>>> at them, say "that's a good idea" and copy the concept, and modify
> > their own
> >>>>> trailer, or have someone else build one--to their own
specifications.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But to ask people on the list to measure the trailers they have
bought
> > from
> >>>>> Stan, and to send you the measurements, so you can build your own
> > trailer,
> >>>>> or
> >>>>> teach someone else how to build these trailers, without paying Stan
> > for his
> >>>>> intellectual property, is wrong, in my view.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm sure that is not what you were thinking when you asked the
> > question, and
> >>>>> I
> >>>>> do not think badly of you for asking it.  This has come up many
times
> >>>>> before,
> >>>>> and I only sometimes respond in this way.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But I do think it's wrong, and I haven't said anything about it for
a
> > while.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> By the way,  there have been people who extended your idea of "send
me
> > the
> >>>>> trailer measurements," to "why not copy and sell the whole
boat"--let
> > me
> >>>>> borrow your boat, I'll make molds from it, we'll make our own exact
> > copies
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> the boat, we'll sell them and split the profit--if we don't have to
> > pay
> >>>>> anything for R&D we can easily sell them for less than Stan can sell
> > them
> >>>>> for.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Essentially that's what you're trying to do in the trailer
department,
> > in my
> >>>>> view.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: Herb Parsons
> >>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> >>>>> Cc: bill at parsonsys.net
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:44 AM
> >>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Measurements
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I saw on here that someone had posted information about the trailer
> >>>>> measurements for a Rhodes 22. I assume this was bunkboard settings
and
> > such.
> >>>>> I
> >>>>> thought I had saved the original email, but could not find it. If
> > someone
> >>>>> has
> >>>>> that information, I would be grateful if you could pass it on to me.
> > The
> >>>>> Rhodes 22 we are trying to set up a trailer for is a 1983 model.
> > Thanks in
> >>>>> advance.
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list