[Rhodes22-list] US Energy Supply & Demand

Tue May 4 07:00:32 EDT 2004

Roger
Just analyze your charts.  Your projecting out useage
without factoring in the Changes that are being made
in the US - past & present.  Those assumptions are
incorrect.
Steve

--- Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Roger
> Did you not read the data I sent.  Also, check out
> the
> link.  Looks like your research is incomplete. 
> There
> is only one thing stoping this country from being
> seft
> relieance; and that Democrat stopping us from
> drilling. You should support the President plan; go
> to
> the white house web site and read thier energy
> policy.
>  
> Steve
> 
> 
> --- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
> > Steve,
> > 
> > The two attachments give the data re the United
> > States supply & demand for
> > crude oil & natural gas.  I just happen to have
> > these two plots because I
> > needed to generate them for the business plan in
> my
> > MSTP531 Entrepreneurship
> > Seminar last week.  Take a look at the data
> because
> > its pretty alarming!
> > Your statement re being able to make up the
> current
> > shortfall in crude oil &
> > natural gas production are simply not correct.  I
> > know because I just spent
> > most of last semester researching the subject.  Do
> > you remember the 1973
> > OPEC oil embargo?  We currently import almost
> twice
> > as much crude oil as in
> > 1973.  OPEC can hurt us real bad any time they
> > choose.  Perhaps in a couple
> > of years, with massive exploration + widespread
> > application of secondary &
> > tertiary oil recovery techniques, we could make a
> > substantial dent in our
> > oil imports.  But, do you you know how long an
> > average supertanker of crude
> > oil will run the US economy?  About 2-3 days!  The
> > famous strategic
> > petroleum reserve is only for the military.  It
> > would only run our economy
> > for a couple of months.  We literally run the US
> > energy economy on a
> > just-in-time supply basis!
> > 
> > Frankly, the US needs a better energy policy than
> > the one we've got - or is
> > it the one we don't got!
> > 
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] reply to Wally's
> > Politics
> > 
> > 
> > > Roger - you shouldn' unset poor Wally like that.
> 
> > War
> > > is for Oil; Wally is lible to start believing
> > that:-)
> > >
> > > For the record, the US is the 3rd largest
> producer
> > of
> > > Oil in the World.  Yes, we import a lot of oil
> and
> > > natrual gas but those are the only two.  All
> other
> > > energy sources, the US is self reliant.
> > >
> > > Also for the record, we don't need the middle
> east
> > > oil.  We have the cability to produce our own
> > > stockpiles there in the US.  The fact that we
> > don't;
> > > just thank your Democrats & Enviormentalist. 
> > Also, we
> > > can produce enough energy to last 250 years if
> we
> > > swithch over to utilize Coal.
> > > Steve
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- ed kroposki <ekroposki at charter.net> wrote:
> > > > Wally:
> > > >
> > > > For those with no connection to New York City,
> > nor
> > > > ever having seen
> > > > the twin towers, it appears easy to forget the
> > part
> > > > of the equation that
> > > > deals with terrorist.  Many say Iraq had no
> > > > connection.  I beg your pardon.
> > > > One terrorist wanted for questioning fled to
> > Iraq
> > > > and was given asylum and
> > > > sanctuary by Sadaam.
> > > > Loud voices say no weapons of mass destruction
> > were
> > > > found. Just two
> > > > weeks ago in Jordan a plot to use chemical
> > weapons
> > > > was stopped in Jordan.
> > > > Analyst determined the weapons came to Jordan
> > thru
> > > > Syria.  The chemicals
> > > > were determined to have been made in Iraq in
> > what
> > > > the news media called a
> > > > fertilizer factory.
> > > > I say it is better to take the fight to
> > terrorist
> > > > where they come
> > > > from and not allow them to do their dirty
> tricks
> > in
> > > > America.  Maybe you
> > > > think the middle of Tennessee is safe.  But
> > where is
> > > > Oak Ridge?  Are you
> > > > willing to let terrorist get inside and
> control
> > of
> > > > the plant?  I imagine
> > > > that they could made a bang there.
> > > > This problem is not only about oil.
> > > > Humpf!
> > > >                Ed K
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > > > Behalf Of Wally Buck
> > > > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 7:59 AM
> > > > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Politics
> > > >
> > > > Roger,
> > > >
> > > > I would have much more respect for the war
> > > > supporters if they all admited
> > > > that it was about oil. If you listen to folks
> > like
> > > > Steve one can see they
> > > > are blinded by party line. To me their
> viewpoint
> > is
> > > > the one that is naive.
> > > > They are buying into all of the other reasons
> > like
> > > > freedon, WMD, and so on.
> > > > Your post supports my belief, that oil is
> blood
> > and
> > > > we are the ones
> > > > attacking over it. Some just need to wrap
> their
> > arms
> > > > around that!
> > > >
> > > > Wally
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Roger Pihlaja"
> <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> > > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Politics
> > > > >Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:20:27 -0400
> > > > >
> > > > >Gentlemen,
> > > > >
> > > > >The world population is currently at about
> 6.2
> > > > billion people & continuing
> > > > >to grow exponentially.  Depending upon which
> > study
> > > > you believe, that's
> > > > >about
> > > > >2X - 3X the size of the population that could
> > be
> > > > supported W/O modern
> > > > >technology.  Like it or not, that means
> > > > transportation, energy systems,
> > > > >infrastructure, & products that run on crude
> > oil.
> > > > If the civilized world
> > > > >does not take steps to assure the
> uninterrupted
> > > > flow of crude oil from the
> > > > >Middle East; then, more people are going to
> > have to
> > > > die off than have died
> > > > >in all of the wars and all of the plagues
> > > > throughout human history
> > > > >combined!
> > > > >Please keep that in mind as you go on & on
> > about
> > > > how there should be no
> > > > >blood for oil.  The plain, unvarnished,
> > > > irrefutable, inescapable truth is
> > > > >that OIL IS BLOOD!  Wrap your arms around
> that
> > > > concept & learn to deal with
> > > > >it.  Any other attitude is so naive that it
> > must be
> > > > considered childish.
> > > > >For everything else that G.W. Bush has done
> > wrong,
> > > > he clearly understands
> > > > >that basic truth.
> > > > >
> > > > >Roger Pihlaja
> > > > >S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "Wally Buck" <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
> > > > >To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 9:40 AM
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Politics
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Steve,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I wouldn't call Bush's taking us to war
> over
> > > > false hoods a "minor
> > > > >lapse".
> > > > > > Talk about understatement!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree that the French and Russians were
> on
> > the
> > > > take. At least when the
> > > > > > French and Russian's were on the take no
> > > > Americans were getting killed.
> > > > >I
> > > > > > have said all along this war is about oil
> > and
> > > > Paul's post supports my
> > > > >view
> > > > > > point. WMD, human rights, freedom and so
> on
> > all
> > > > sound good but if there
> > > > > > wasn't a drop of oil in the area the US,
> > France,
> > > > and Russia wouldn't
> > > > >give
> > > > >a
> > > > > > flip.So now we are at "war " and the US
> > controls
> > > > the oil. I don't see
> > > > >how
> > > > > > this is a big improvement.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wally
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More
> Politics
> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:25:08 -0700
> (PDT)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Very interesting, Paul.  You know, I
> > figured it
> > > > was
> > > > > > >only a matter of time before this came
> out.
> >  A
> > > > country
> > > > > > >such a French putting monetary issue
> before
> > the
> > > > safety
> > > > > > >of the world.  We should all get down on
> > our
> > > > knees &
> > > > > > >thank God that we have our President (and
> a
> > > > GREAT
> > > > > > >President at that) & Tony Blair over in
> > England
> > > > that
> > > > > > >was willing to take a stand for whats
> > > > right!!!!!!!!!!
> > > > > > >Where me a flag; I feel like saluting
> it:-)
> > > > > > >Steve
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >--- pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote:
> > > > > > > > Forgive me if you receive this twice. 
> I
> > > > > > > > accidentally left out the subject
> > > > > > > > on the first try. - Paul
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > April 28, 2004 -- ANYONE who pines for
> > > > genuine
> > > > > > > > international
> > > > > > > > multilateralism would do well to
> follow
> > the
> > > > bribes
> > > > > > > > now being uncovered in
> > > > > > > > the United Nations' Oil-for- Food
> > scandal.
> > > > > > > > Why did France and Russia oppose
> efforts
> > to
> > > > topple
> > > > > > > > Saddam Hussein's regime?
> > > > > > > > And why did they press constantly,
> > > > throughout the
> > > > > > > > '90s, for an expansion of
> > > > > > > > Iraqi oil sales? Was it their empathy
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > starving children of that
> > > > > > > > impoverished nation? Their desire to
> > stop
> > > > the United
> > > > > > > > States from arrogantly
> > > > > > > > imposing its vision upon the Middle
> > East?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It now looks like they it was simply
> > because
> > > > they
> > > > > > > > were on the take. Saddam
> > > > > > > > was their cash cow. If President Bush
> > has
> > > > suffered
> > > > > > > > some discredit over his
> > > > > > > > apparently false - but not
> disingenuous
> > -
> > > > claims of
> > > > > > > > Iraqi weapons of mass
> > > > > > > > destruction, the lapse is minor
> compared
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > outright personal
> > > > > > > > selfishness and criminality that
> appears
> > to
> > > > have
> > > > > > > > motivated many of those
> > > > > > > > who opposed his efforts to rid the
> world
> > of
> > > > one of
> > > > > > > > its worst dictators.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Throughout the '90s, France and Russia
> > > > badgered the
> > > > > > > > United States and
> > > > > > > > Britain to increase Iraqi oil
> > production.
> > > > President
> > > > > > > > Bill Clinton and Prime
> > > > > > > > Minister Tony Blair fought them at
> each
> > > > step, but
> > > > > > > > then reluctantly gave
> > > > > > > > way. First Iraq was allowed to sell
> > 500,000
> > > > barrels
> > > > > > > > daily. Then, on Franco-
> > > > > > > > Russian insistence, it was raised to 1
> > > > million, then
> > > > > > > > to 2 million and,
> > > > > > > > finally, to 3 million barrels a day.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Each time, America and Britain - the
> > nations
> > > > now
> > > > > > > > accused of coveting Iraqi
> > > > > > > > oil - resisted the increases in Iraqi
> > > > production and
> > > > > > > > urged tighter controls
> > > > > > > > over the program. Each time, the
> French
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > Russians prattled on about
> > > > > > > > the rights of Iraqi sovereignty and
> the
> > need
> > > > to feed
> > > > > > > > the children.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now we know why the French and
> Russians
> > were
> > > > so
> > > > > > > > insistent. Iraqi government
> > > > > > > > documents (leaked to the Baghdad
> > newspaper
> > > > Al Mada)
> > > > > > > > list at least 270
> > > > > > > > individuals and entities who got
> > vouchers
> > > > allowing
> > > > > > > > them to sell Iraqi oil -
> > > > > > > > and to keep much of the money. These
> > > > vouchers, and
> > > > > > > > the promise of instant
> > > > > > > > great wealth they carried with them,
> > bought
> > > > vital
> > > > > > > > support in the United
> > > > > > > > Nations to let Saddam stay in power.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The list of those receiving these
> bribes
> > > > includes
> > > > > > > > France's former French
> > > > > > > > Interior Minister Charles Pasqua
> (who's
> > a
> > > > leader of
> > > > > > > > Chirac's party) and
> > > > > > > > Patrick Maugein, the head of the
> French
> > Oil
> > > > firm
> > > > > > > > Soco International.
> > > > > > > > France's former U.N. ambassador,
> > > > Jean-Bernard
> > > > > > > > Merimee, got vouchers to sell
> > > > > > > > 11 million barrels.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In Russia, the payoff chain reached
> > right
> > > > into the
> > > > > > > > "office of the Russian
> > > > > > > > president." President Vladimir Putin's
> > Peace
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > Unity Party also got
> > > > > > > > vouchers, as did the Soviet-era Prime
> > > > Minister
> > > > > > > > Nikolai Ryzhkov and the
> > > > > > > > Russian Orthodox Church. Nationalist
> > leader
> > > > Vladimir
> > > > > > > > Zhirinovsky shared in
> > > > > > > > the largesse.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Not to be left behind, the Rev. Jean
> > Marie
> > > > Benjamin
> > > > > > > > of the Vatican got the
> > > > > > > > rights to sell 4.5 million barrels as
> > > > recompense for
> > > > > > > > setting up a meeting
> > > > > > > > between Iraqi Foreign Minister Tariq
> > Aziz
> > > > and the
> > > > > > > > pope.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Indeed, the list indicates that Benon
> > Sevan,
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > United Nations official in
> > > > > > > > charge of the Oil-for-Food program.
> > received
> > > > > > > > vouchers. He denies the
> > > > > > > > charge, but has decided to retire next
> > month
> > > > anyway.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > At the start of the Oil-for-Food
> > program,
> > > > America
> > > > > > > > and Britain proposed that
> > > > > > > > the money flow only to accounts
> entirely
> > > > controlled
> > > > > > > > by the United Nations.
> > > > > > > > Soon this standard was lowered to
> > include
> > > > accounts
> > > > > > > > not actually controlled
> > > > > > > > by the United Nations, but only
> > monitored by
> > > > it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Then-Sen. Frank Murkowski (R-Alaska)
> > warned
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > "oil is fungible" and
> > > > > > > > noted that once Iraq was allowed to
> pump
> > and
> > > > sell
> > > > > > > > it, Saddam could sell all
> > > > > > > > he wanted outside of officially
> > sanctioned
> > > > channels
> > > > > > > > and nobody could tell
> > > > > > > > which black liquid was legal and which
> > not.
> > > > But
> > > > > > > > nobody imagined that there
> > > > > > > > were actual bribes going to specific
> > French,
> > > > Russian
> > > > > > > > and U.N. officials as
> > > > > > > > part of the program.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now it appears that Secretary-General
> > Kofi
> > > > Annan's
> > > > > > > > sanctimonious posturing
> > > > > > > > may have concealed oil bribes which
> > reached
> > > > high up
> > > > > > > > in the ranks of the
> > > > > > > > U.N. organization itself.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The defect of international coalitions
> > is
> > > > that they
> > > > > > > > include the just and
> > > > > > > > the unjust, the bribed and the honest,
> > the
> > > > > > > > democratic and the autocratic.
> > > > > > > > And their members cannot be trusted
> > equally.
> > > > The
> > > > > > > > group that stood up and
> > > > > > > > backed the invasion of Iraq was
> > nicknamed
> > > > "the
> > > > > > > > Coalition of the Willing."
> > > > > > > > Now it appears it was also "the
> > Coalition of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > Honest."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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