[Rhodes22-list] I Wish To Change My Vote

[P&M Beals]

Rik, 

Just imagine how much we could be putting into Homeland Security with some
of the billions that are going into the mess in Iraq.  Homeland Security has
some funding but from what I have read not enough at the bottom, middle and
top levels.  As we go around the globe trying to root out terrorists,
leaving civilians homeless, sewerless, childless don't you think that
younger terrorists grow up in their places?  We are never going to put an
end to terrorism by our attitude of we beat you all down and eliminate you,
eliminate the threat to America.. we will not eliminate Terrorism....didn't
even W say a month ago " I don't think we can win the war on terrorism...."
oops a day later..."I didn't mean that..."

The dollars that we are sinking, losing in Iraq, let alone our sons and
daughters, how much better they could be invested back here in the U.S.

Sure if we have acts of terrorism we have to respond and act
decisively....hence there really wasn't much if any opposition to entering
Afghanistan to get Osama and the Al Queda bad guys...Kerry isn't going to
sit on his hands....we need an approach that works on improving our
intelligence, coordination for response if things do happen here...all the
guidelines from the 9/11 Commission.... that is where we should be putting
our efforts....

along with No School Left Unfunded you know the No Child Left Behind....the
most unfunded mandate, federal funding for special education that never gets
funded....

or how about bringing the heating assistance programs up to where they
should be.... right now funded at the 1981 levels....while we get to go out
on beautiful sail boats there are people in this county... working, two
couple families  No not welfare folks.... who choose between heat, health
care and how much food for  the week...

but we should just keep fighting the good fight in Iraq....we will win the
war on terrorism....yeah right.

Phyllis
Whisper

> From: Rik Sandberg <sanderico at earthlink.net>
> Reply-To: sanderico at earthlink.net, The Rhodes 22 mail list
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 06:59:52 -0500
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I Wish To Change My Vote
> 
> Slim,
> 
> I'm not Roger again........ But
> 
> There's a heck of a lot more to this than "You'll send your two boys to
> die for oil".  Doesn't it bother you just a bit when Muslim extremists
> blow up one of the biggest office buildings in the world and kill 3000
> of our citizens?? Would you rather lay back and wait to see how long it
> takes for them to do it again??? Don't forget Slim, we (yes, you and me)
> are infidels and these people have gotten the idea that it is their duty
> to wipe us off the face of the planet for God. You ain't gonna stop that
> by sitting around the camp fire singing Kum-ba-ya(sp). Thank God for
> people like Roger who are realistic enough to realize it.
> 
> Rik
> 
> Steve Alm wrote:
> 
>> Roger,
>> 
>> I'll certainly give you credit for your intellectual honesty.  You come
>> right out and say it.  You'll send your two boys to die for oil. I don't
>> know how I can argue with that, but when I read your earlier post on how
>> they're both kicking ass in school, I can't help but think what a tragic
>> waste that would be.   They have bright futures ahead of them.  Why
>> jeopardize that?  They're both of the age where they could be drafted--that
>> means it's not THEIR decision, but rather a decision made for them by
>> politicians.  It seems like that's what you really want, and so the chances
>> of talking you out of that are slim and none.  I'll just have to accept the
>> fact that one of the great minds here on the Rhodes list has adopted a
>> hawkish, blood-lust mentality, even to the expense of his own children.  I
>> regret that.
>> 
>> You say that GWB deserves the benefit of the doubt. Come on, man, he's HAD
>> the benefit of the doubt.  He got elected president--well, not exactly.  But
>> what he deserves now more than ever is scrutiny!  I don't hold politicians
>> up to godlike standards--that's asking way too much!  I just want them to be
>> responsible, intelligent and honest and I don't think GWB has been any of
>> those.  
>> 
>> I'm not even going to try to offer solutions for untangling the mess in the
>> middle east.  I'm not informed enough nor smart enough.  I don't know who
>> is.  Pull out? Stay in? Sounds like what happened at the drive-in when I was
>> 16.  But I sure as Hell will not let Michael Moore OR Rush Limbaugh tell me
>> what to think.  I go with my gut.  And my gut tells me that there's gotta be
>> a better way.  Maybe it's naïve to be optimistic but that's why I vote for
>> change.  The Bush administration has shown us nothing but fear, contempt and
>> aggression.  If that's how you want America to be characterized, then he's
>> your man.
>> 
>> I'm frustrated that John Kerry is the best that the dems can come up with.
>> I don't really like him much at all.  And I definitely don't like John
>> Edwards. Come to think about it, I don't like any of these jackasses, so a
>> guy's gotta vote for the lesser of two evils.  I don't like it but that's
>> the reality.  Kerry hasn't done anything to piss me off and Bush has.  I
>> hear a lot of noise about Kerry's voting record, but have you really looked
>> at it yourself?  Have you counted votes and read all the bills and their
>> riders for 30 years and decided for yourself?  Probably not. OK, he's a
>> Massachusetts liberal and he votes on the left--that ain't news.  But when
>> in doubt--dump the incumbent and get a fresh start.
>> 
>> Roger, there's nothing wrong with flip-flopping.  There's still time to
>> change your mind again.  Don't put Daniel and Gary in harm's way!
>> 
>> Slim Chance
>> 
>> On 10/6/04 5:43 PM, "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Rummy,
>>> 
>>> This is the real world and the answers are not in the back of the textbook.
>>> We grope along as best we can using the best intelligence assessments
>>> available, making the best decisions possible with the data available at the
>>> time the decision has to be made.  You are accusing the President of the
>>> United States of going to war with Iraq to settle a blood feud with Saddam
>>> Hussein regarding the dictator's attempt to have Bush Sr. assonated.  This
>>> involved lying to the US congress and the American people.  Pretty strong
>>> stuff!  If true, it would definitely rise to the level of an impeachable
>>> offense.  If there was any proof of this sort of conspiracy, the democratic
>>> side of the aisle in congress would be screaming for impeachment.  I will
>>> wait for the judgement of history; but, I doubt Bush is guilty of anything
>>> worse than believing bad intelligence.  Until some sort of reasonable proof
>>> is forthcoming, I think the President of the United States deserves the
>>> benefit of the doubt.
>>> 
>>> We hold our leaders up against a Godlike standard of performance.  It's
>>> Bush's fault that 3000 people died on 9/11.  It's Bush's fault that the
>>> entire world intelligence community AT THE TIME believed Iraq had WMD's.
>>> It's Bush's fault that we toppled a brutal dictator's regime & then found
>>> out the prewar intelligence assessment was wrong.
>>> 
>>> I'll accept the judgement of history regarding the validity of going to war
>>> with Iraq.  The question is, what do we do right now to move forward?  The
>>> data on Kerry strongly suggests he is nothing but an appeaser who will cut &
>>> run at the 1st opportunity in Iraq.  This will almost certainly make the
>>> situation much worse.  Kerry can bluster and bellow all he wants about how
>>> he will defend this country during the campaign.  He'll be looking for a way
>>> out of Iraq the 1st time our nose gets bloody.  His 30 year record of public
>>> service indicates he has no stomach for war.  No other countries will join
>>> our coalition under Kerry either because his commitment to the mission in
>>> Iraq is so weak.  He will use this as another excuse to cut and run.
>>> 
>>> If the Iraq war escalates and we have to have a draft; then, both Daniel &
>>> Gary are prepared to serve.  Deb & I will worry about their safety every
>>> day, just like any other parent.  FYI, Gary's choosen career in law
>>> enforcement isn't exactly the safest career choice a guy could make.  But,
>>> Deb & I support his decision.
>>> 
>>> Japan & Germany are two democratic success stories brought about by a long
>>> bloody war.  I don't understand your point.
>>> 
>>> Rummy, if you don't like the cut of Bush's jib; in this country, that's a
>>> perfectly acceptable reason to not vote for him.  All I'm asking is that you
>>> be intellectually honest with yourself regarding your reasons.  Michael
>>> Moore style propaganda isn't necessarily true no matter how many film awards
>>> he wins or how many times he shouts it.
>>> 
>>> Roger Pihlaja
>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 1:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I Wish To Change My Vote
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Roger,
>>>> If you truly believe that the U.S. invaded Iraq to get rid of the
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> terrorists,
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> I'm sorry, but you are truly mistaken. We went into Iraq to finish what
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> "W"s
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> father didn't and couldn't and also because Sadam tried to have his father
>>>> killed. Plain and simple.
>>>> Starting a war is easy. Finishing it and getting out of it whole is an
>>>> entirely different story. Besides Vietnam, Japan and Germany come to mind
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> as well as
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> countless others. War is not a solution to any problems. People die. It
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> also
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> brings out the worst in people.
>>>> Let me ask you a question? How do you think President Bush is going to get
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> us
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> out of Iraq? What will the price be? Will we ever really win?
>>>> 
>>>> Rummy
>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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