[Rhodes22-list] I Wish To Change My Vote

[Glen & Dorene Barrera]

I heard a recent clip from a radio show in Chicago. It was made by Penn of
Penn and Teller. This is a rough synopsis:

Penn: Remember the Three Stooges? Moe would say to Curly after showing his
hand, "pick two fingers."  Of course, Curly would pick two fingers and then
Moe would poke him in the eye. We now have a choice between two leaders of
our country, and the problem is...no matter who you pick...you're going to
get poked in the eye!

Sorry liberals/conservatives, nice try...but I'm still trying to make up my
mind cognizant of  historical, political, economic, and social implications
not just in our country but world wide.

Glen


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Alm" <salm at mn.rr.com>
To: "Rhodes" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 4:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I Wish To Change My Vote


Roger,

I'll certainly give you credit for your intellectual honesty.  You come
right out and say it.  You'll send your two boys to die for oil. I don't
know how I can argue with that, but when I read your earlier post on how
they're both kicking ass in school, I can't help but think what a tragic
waste that would be.   They have bright futures ahead of them.  Why
jeopardize that?  They're both of the age where they could be drafted--that
means it's not THEIR decision, but rather a decision made for them by
politicians.  It seems like that's what you really want, and so the chances
of talking you out of that are slim and none.  I'll just have to accept the
fact that one of the great minds here on the Rhodes list has adopted a
hawkish, blood-lust mentality, even to the expense of his own children.  I
regret that.

You say that GWB deserves the benefit of the doubt. Come on, man, he's HAD
the benefit of the doubt.  He got elected president--well, not exactly.  But
what he deserves now more than ever is scrutiny!  I don't hold politicians
up to godlike standards--that's asking way too much!  I just want them to be
responsible, intelligent and honest and I don't think GWB has been any of
those.

I'm not even going to try to offer solutions for untangling the mess in the
middle east.  I'm not informed enough nor smart enough.  I don't know who
is.  Pull out? Stay in? Sounds like what happened at the drive-in when I was
16.  But I sure as Hell will not let Michael Moore OR Rush Limbaugh tell me
what to think.  I go with my gut.  And my gut tells me that there's gotta be
a better way.  Maybe it's naïve to be optimistic but that's why I vote for
change.  The Bush administration has shown us nothing but fear, contempt and
aggression.  If that's how you want America to be characterized, then he's
your man.

I'm frustrated that John Kerry is the best that the dems can come up with.
I don't really like him much at all.  And I definitely don't like John
Edwards. Come to think about it, I don't like any of these jackasses, so a
guy's gotta vote for the lesser of two evils.  I don't like it but that's
the reality.  Kerry hasn't done anything to piss me off and Bush has.  I
hear a lot of noise about Kerry's voting record, but have you really looked
at it yourself?  Have you counted votes and read all the bills and their
riders for 30 years and decided for yourself?  Probably not. OK, he's a
Massachusetts liberal and he votes on the left--that ain't news.  But when
in doubt--dump the incumbent and get a fresh start.

Roger, there's nothing wrong with flip-flopping.  There's still time to
change your mind again.  Don't put Daniel and Gary in harm's way!

Slim Chance

On 10/6/04 5:43 PM, "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:

> Rummy,
>
> This is the real world and the answers are not in the back of the
textbook.
> We grope along as best we can using the best intelligence assessments
> available, making the best decisions possible with the data available at
the
> time the decision has to be made.  You are accusing the President of the
> United States of going to war with Iraq to settle a blood feud with Saddam
> Hussein regarding the dictator's attempt to have Bush Sr. assonated.  This
> involved lying to the US congress and the American people.  Pretty strong
> stuff!  If true, it would definitely rise to the level of an impeachable
> offense.  If there was any proof of this sort of conspiracy, the
democratic
> side of the aisle in congress would be screaming for impeachment.  I will
> wait for the judgement of history; but, I doubt Bush is guilty of anything
> worse than believing bad intelligence.  Until some sort of reasonable
proof
> is forthcoming, I think the President of the United States deserves the
> benefit of the doubt.
>
> We hold our leaders up against a Godlike standard of performance.  It's
> Bush's fault that 3000 people died on 9/11.  It's Bush's fault that the
> entire world intelligence community AT THE TIME believed Iraq had WMD's.
> It's Bush's fault that we toppled a brutal dictator's regime & then found
> out the prewar intelligence assessment was wrong.
>
> I'll accept the judgement of history regarding the validity of going to
war
> with Iraq.  The question is, what do we do right now to move forward?  The
> data on Kerry strongly suggests he is nothing but an appeaser who will cut
&
> run at the 1st opportunity in Iraq.  This will almost certainly make the
> situation much worse.  Kerry can bluster and bellow all he wants about how
> he will defend this country during the campaign.  He'll be looking for a
way
> out of Iraq the 1st time our nose gets bloody.  His 30 year record of
public
> service indicates he has no stomach for war.  No other countries will join
> our coalition under Kerry either because his commitment to the mission in
> Iraq is so weak.  He will use this as another excuse to cut and run.
>
> If the Iraq war escalates and we have to have a draft; then, both Daniel &
> Gary are prepared to serve.  Deb & I will worry about their safety every
> day, just like any other parent.  FYI, Gary's choosen career in law
> enforcement isn't exactly the safest career choice a guy could make.  But,
> Deb & I support his decision.
>
> Japan & Germany are two democratic success stories brought about by a long
> bloody war.  I don't understand your point.
>
> Rummy, if you don't like the cut of Bush's jib; in this country, that's a
> perfectly acceptable reason to not vote for him.  All I'm asking is that
you
> be intellectually honest with yourself regarding your reasons.  Michael
> Moore style propaganda isn't necessarily true no matter how many film
awards
> he wins or how many times he shouts it.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 1:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] I Wish To Change My Vote
>
>
>> Roger,
>> If you truly believe that the U.S. invaded Iraq to get rid of the
> terrorists,
>> I'm sorry, but you are truly mistaken. We went into Iraq to finish what
> "W"s
>> father didn't and couldn't and also because Sadam tried to have his
father
>> killed. Plain and simple.
>> Starting a war is easy. Finishing it and getting out of it whole is an
>> entirely different story. Besides Vietnam, Japan and Germany come to mind
> as well as
>> countless others. War is not a solution to any problems. People die. It
> also
>> brings out the worst in people.
>> Let me ask you a question? How do you think President Bush is going to
get
> us
>> out of Iraq? What will the price be? Will we ever really win?
>>
>> Rummy
>> __________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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