[Rhodes22-list] Some Public School Programs Work Pretty Well
Todd Tavares
sprocket80 at mail.com
Sat Oct 9 18:45:32 EDT 2004
Roger,
Actually what my father did was the best thing he had ever done
for me. I did alot of growing up in a short period of time. He did
later co-sign for me to get a student loan which paid for the first
years tuition of a two year course. Several friends I had met in
school and hung around with were in similar situations. We spent many
evenings crying in our beers and wishing that our fathers would have
kicked our asses more growing up, and maybe thay would have made us
tougher. My mother secretly called and offered money, but macho pride
made me tell her I was doing fine.
School was from 7:00AM until 3:00PM. I bought a used ten speed
bike at a yard sale, but carpooled to school with my roommate. At
first, I worked two jobs. In the evenings during the week I worked at
a buffet restaurant and loaded trucks in a warehouse on the weekends.
The restaurant took $1.50 a day out of my check any day that I wanted
to eat before or after my shift . I ate before AND after work so that
saved money on groceries! It was hard, but worth it. It was kind
of embarassing however, telling my friends I got that big scab on my
chin because I fell asleep riding my bicycle home from work. LOL I
thanked God I had not gotten the transmission fixed yet!
My father had a saying "Easy come...easy go". I guess that came
from him growing up during the depression. He would say this anytime
we would ask for something. His explanation was that if he gave us
something, we would not appreciate it...but if we worked for it, we
would appreciate it more and take better care of it. And he was
right. This was the best lesson in life. I appreciate what he did for
me and I enjoy telling the story! My father and I were very close up
until the day he passed on.
Todd
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Pihlaja"
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 00:07:26 -0400
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Some Public School Programs Work Pretty
Well
> Todd,
>
> I have a very dear friend, Mike Coley, from my days at Michigan Tech
> University. We were the best man at each other's weddings. Poor
Mike's
> father can only be charitibly be described as "mean spirited". The
guy
> would wait until Friday evening of the weekend before final exam
week to
> call Mike & tell him that he'd decided to not fund the next quarter.
Just
> when Mike needed to have a clear head & focus on cramming for his
finals,
> his father had to pull something like that on him. I've split many a
pizza
> & downed many a pitcher of beer with Mike trying to get him settled
back
> down after numerous incid ents like that. Sometimes, Mike's father
would
> follow thru & Mike would have to quit school & get a job for a
while. It
> took him about 6 years to earn his degree in electrical engineering
& he had
> 10's of thousands of dollars of student loan debt. I always thought
the
> uncertainty of Mike's situation and seemingly random, cruel manner
in which
> his father treated him were tremendously unfair. Your father sounds
at
> least as bad. Tell me, do you ever communicate with him these days?
>
> Deb & I had much better relationships with our parents. Somehow,
both of
> our parents managed to put us thru college without taking out
college loans.
> Not having that debt, made starting out MUCH easier. When our boys
were
> quite young, we set up a trust fund to pay for their college &
contributed
> about $5600 per year to it until Daniel was 18. Deb & I didn't want
the
> boys to have to start out their adult lives saddled with huge
college loan
> debt. Of course, when we set up their trust fund, we never expected
me to
> lose my job just as Daniel was graduating from high school either!
If we
> hadn't had their trust fund already funded, we'd have been in deep
do do,
> especially when I decided to back to school to earn my BSME degree
at the
> same time.
>
> I need to tell you a story about Daniel:
>
> When I took Daniel up to NMU in the end of August, 2004 (No car
remember?),
> we arrived at the Lamda Chi Alpha fraternity house late Friday
afternoon of
> the weekend
> before the fall semester started. The place was a zoo with everyone
moving
> in. Up to this point, I'd only been on the
> 1st floor of the fraternity house. That day, I found out one of the
things
> joining a fraternity involves is a seemingly endless project to fix
up &
> maintain this old turn-of-the-century Victorian house. Daniel's room
at the
> fraternity house was supposed to be furnished. Supposedly, the only
> furniture he needed to bring were a desk, desk lamp, and chair. He
already
> had a couch from his dorm room, stored in the basement of the
fraternity
> house. Plus, Daniel had a small refrigerator, a microwave, his
stereo, & a
> TV packed into the minivan. Anyway, it turned out that the
fraternity had
> been doing some work on the house over the summer & Daniel's room
had been
> the "dumping ground". It was crammed chock full of furniture, tools,
> building materials, nails, drywall screws, & there was about 1/2" of
drywall
> dust coating everything. So, after driving 6 hours to get to
Marquette, MI,
> we spent the next 3 hours moving furniture & cleaning his room
enough to be
> somewhat livable. Once all the furniture in the room was claimed, it
turned
> out the only furniture left in Daniel's room was a chest of drawers.
> Besides that, once we got the debris cleaned out, the walls &
ceiling in
> Daniel's room were at least 4 different colors & full of holes! But,
we
> moved his stuff in anyway. By then, I was exhausted. We went & got
supper
> down by the waterfront & watched the sun go down over Lake Superior.
Over
> supper, I made the observation that the NMU dorm rooms were
furnished &
> ready to live in for about the same money we were paying for the
broken down
> room they've given you. Daniel didn't say much & just looked
resigned to
> his fate. I slept on his couch that night & Daniel slept on the
floor. On
> Saturday morning, before Daniel was awake, I called his mother. I
knew Deb
> would go ballistic at the thought of her baby spending an entire
acedemic
> year virtually without furniture. I told her I thought we might be
able to
> furnish the room fairly inexpensively & this furniture would help
Daniel get
> started in his 1st apartment after graduation. Deb readily agreed to
this
> plan. So, Daniel & I made the rounds of the thrift shops, Salvation
Army, &
> Goodwill Store that Saturday. We were able to get some pretty
reasonable
> stuff that won't fall apart for less than $100. Deb & I don't plan
to take
> the $100 out of Daniel's hide. The look on his face as we were
cleaning
> that room & later at dinner convinced me the lesson had already been
> learned.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V DYnamic Equilibrium
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Todd Tavares"
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 8:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-l ist] Some Public School Programs Work
Pretty Well
>
>
> >
> > Roger,
> >
> > I wish I had such a plan to use when I got out of high school.
> > My older brother got a full boat scholarship to the University of
> > Maryland for Civil Engineering (he never completed his
> > degree). My parents paid for my sister to attend nursing school in
> > Baltimore. Both would come home on the weekends and drop their
> > laundry off on Mom while they went out and partied with their
friends.
> >
> > I graduated in the June of 1980.....right in the middle of the
Iran
> > Hostage Crisis and the re-start of the Selective Service
registration
> > for a possible draft. Having not working hard enough during my
senior
> > year of high school, a scholarship was not in my future. My father
> > was drafted in WWII and being his favorite s on :-) he did not me
to be
> > drafted should we go to war in Iran. I decided to got to a trade
> > school in Tulsa, Oklahoma to learn aircraft mechanics. Pops
promised
> > to pay my tuition and buy me a used car. Rent and food was my
> > problem.
> >
> > We loaded my dad's old Chevy van with my few possesions and headed
> > to Oklahoma. The transmission in the van started to slip as we
pulled
> > into town.(an omen of things to come, but I failed to see the
signs)
> > Well, I registered for classes and found a roommate. The only
thing
> > left was to find a used car dealer..so we headed out. Imagine my
> > surprise when we pulled up in front of the departures terminal at
> > Tulsa International Airport. He jumped out and his parting remark
> > before disappearing into the crowd was "Get the transmission fixed
and
> > you got yourself a nice van!" (omen #2).
> >
> > I found a part time evening job and was settling in to my new life
> > away at school. About four months later, I got a notice to see the
man
> > in the finance office. He informed me that my tuition was already
two
> > months behind. I assured him that it had to be a mistake because
my
> > dad was paying the tuition. He handed me the telephone and I
called
> > my father long distance, at work, in D.C., and the conversation
went
> > just like this:
> >
> > "Hey Dad, I am sitting here in the finance office at school and
the
> > man here says that my tuition is two months behind!?"
> >
> > Dad: "Oh yeah, I've been meaning to call you...(awkward
> > silence).... You're on your own now kid...Sink or Swim!" CLICK
> >
> >
> > Todd
> > ----- Original Message -----
> &g t; From: "Roger Pihlaja"
> > Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:25:47 -0400
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Some Public School Programs Work
Pretty
> > Well
> > > Todd,
> > >
> > > Deb & I also had a "pay for performance" bonus for grades with
> > Daniel &
> > > Gary. Same pay scale too: $5.00 per A, $4.50 per A-, $3.50 per
B+,
> > $3.00
> > > per B, $2.50 per B-. For all A's, the bonus was dinner with the
> > family at
> > > the restaurant of their choice, or the cash equivalent. (The
cash
> > equivalent
> > > of their dinner, not 4 fancy dinners! - about $25 at the time)
> > Daniel flip
> > > flopped both ways between dinner & the money depending upon his
> > finances at
> > > the time. Gary has, so far, always chosen the r estaurant. At
the
> > > restaurant, we've always had a celebratory toast for the honor
roll
> > student.
> > >
> > > With Daniel in college, we have a different system. We have a
> > contract. In
> > > this contract, Deb & I agreed to pay for tuition, books &
supplies,
> > fees,
> > > room & board, clothing, travel expenses to and from home,
provide a
> > car, pay
> > > the insurance and maintenance costs on that car, and a weekly
> > allowance
> > > (currently $30/week) in order to allow Daniel to attend any
public
> > college
> > > in Michigan enrolled in any degree program he chooses. Daniel
choose
> > > Northern Michigan University (NMU) in Marquette, MI in their
Graphic
> > > Arts/Electronic Imaging program. In return, Daniel agreed to:
> > >
> > &g t; 1. You must carry a sufficient class load each semester to
keep you
> > on track
> > > to graduate in 4 years.
> > > If you fall behind in your degree schedule by failing or
dropping
> > > classes or not taking enough
> > > classes; then, you must attend summer school at your own expense
> > until
> > > you ar e caught up.
> > >
> > > 2. If you receive a grade in any of your classes that is not
> > sufficient to
> > > permit you to apply it towards
> > > your degree; then, you must pay the tuition and fees for that
class.
> > > Plus, see item #1 regarding
> > > the consequences of retaking that class.
> > >
> > > 3. The expectation is that your cumulative GPA will be => 3.0.
If
> > your GPA
> > > falls below 3.0, we have a
> > > formula t hat calculates the proportion of tuition and fees you
will
> > owe
> > > for the semester that your
> > > academic performance was below standard. Basically, at a GPA <
2.0,
> > you
> > > will be paying 100%.
> > > Plus, see item #1.
> > >
> > > 4. The cost of room & board is based upon the current cost of
living
> > on
> > > campus in the dormitory and
> > > eating in the NMU cafeterias. If you wish to live off campus;
then,
> > you
> > > will pay any increased cost
> > > of living.
> > >
> > > 5. For each academic school year, we will settle up accounts at
the
> > end of
> > > summer. If you cannot pay
> > > your share based upon the above criteria; then, you will have to
> > > interrupt your college and get a job
> &g t; > to pay off your debt.
> > >
> > > 6. Changing your major is highly discouraged. However, if you
must
> > change
> > > your major; then, talk to
> > > us regarding the situation sooner rather than later. We will
> > > renegotiate your contract.
> > >
> > > 7. The only excuse for not performing against the above criteria
is
> > serious
> > > illness or injury. In this case,
> > > we will renegotiate your contract based upon the specific
> > circumstances.
> > >
> > > So far, a few of the clauses in this contract have been invoked.
> > Daniel
> > > doofed the winter semester of his freshman year with a GPA of
2.4.
> > He owed
> > > us about $600. Although Daniel worked a part-time job, by the
end of
> > > summer, 2002, he had not paid off the debt. So, Daniel stayed
home
> > in the
> > > fall semester, 2003, attended Delta College from home, and
worked
> > part time.
> > > Daniel took general education classes at Delta College which
would
> > transfer
> > > up to NMU in order to keep him on degree schedule track. By the
end
> > of the
> > > fall semester, 2003; Daniel had paid off his debt, gotten his
GPA
> > back up, &
> > > attended the winter semester, 2004 at NMU. During this semester,
he
> > dropped
> > > a class just before the close of the drop period, thus invoking
> > clause #1.
> > > Daniel took another class at Delta College in the summer of 2004
and
> > worked
> > > to pay off his debt. Also in August, 2003, Daniel wrecked his
car.
> > > Fortunately, no was hurt; but, Daniel's Subaru Legacy AWD sedan
wa s
> > totaled.
> > > The accident was 100% Daniel's fault. Deb & I only agreed to
provide
> > one
> > > car & Daniel has been without a car since then. Daniel & I
commuted
> > to
> > > college together a lot in the fall semester, 2003 and last
summer.
> > Delta
> > > College is about 5 miles from Saginaw Valley State University
> > (SVSU). I
> > > would drop Daniel off at Delta College on my way to school &
Daniel
> > was
> > > either stuck there until I came back to get him based upon my
class
> > schedule
> > > or had to find his own way home. Note that both college campuses
are
> > about
> > > 35 miles away from our home. This year, Daniel is living off
campus
> > for the
> > > 1st time. He's living in the Lambda Chi Alpha fraternity house
with
> > an
> > > on-campus cafeteria meal pass. The difference in the cost of
living
> > is
> > > theoretically only about $1.50 per month. But, we'll reexamine
this
> > expense
> > > with real data after each semester. It's been a little messy;
but,
> > so far
> > > the plan is working. Hopefully, Daniel won't mess up any more
> > classes
> > > because were running out of subjects he could take locally that
wo
> > uld
> > > relevant towards his degree.
> > >
> > > Gary is watching all these developments with great interest
because
> > he knows
> > > he's next in line!
> > >
> > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Todd Tavares"
> > > To: "The Rhodes 2 2 mail list"
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 10:44 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Some Public School Programs Work
Pretty
> > Well
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Brad,
> > > >
> > > > My wife and I have always firmly encouraged our boys to do
their
> > > > very best without pushing too hard. We didn't want to force
them,
> > and
> > > > have always made school/homework fun and rewarding I took
quite a
> > > > bit of grief from friends because I give my sons money for
grades,
> > > > with a very special bonus for straight A's. I defend my
actions
> > > > because this mirrors the corporate world.....pay for top
> > performance.
> > > > A's are $5, B's are $3, but a big ticket item for straight
A's. I
> > > > didn 't know mountain bikes cost so dang much!! lol
> > > >
> > > > Luckily, these days doing good in school is cool!! The
smartest
> > > > kids are the most popular. The teen years have arrived though
and
> > > > only time will tell. But soon it will be four-wheelers and
cars
> > > > instead of mountain bikes.
> > > >
> > > > Todd
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: brad haslett
> > > > Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:02:18 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Some Public School Programs Work
> > Pretty
> > > > Well
> > > > > Todd,
> > > > >
> > > > > You may recall a controversial book that was published
> > > > & gt; in 1994 titled "The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class
> > > > > Stucture in American Life" by Herrnstein and Murray.
> > > > > Herrnstein had the good sense to die before
> > > > > publication which left Charles Murray alone to defend
> > > > > chapter 13. His studies showed that Asian-Americans
> > > > > tested slightly higher in IQ than other groups but
> > > > > this alone wouldn't account for their superior
> > > > > academic performance. He was crucified by the PC
> > > > > police.
> > > > >
> > > > > Students attempt to meet the standards that are set
> > > > > for them at home. If those standards or even a
> > > > > fu nctioning home is missing, performance will suffer.
> > > > > It is beyond the function of the educatio n system to
> > > > > fix those problems.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some public schools work because the communit ies where
> > > > > they are located work. Merging functioning schools
> > > > > with non-functioning ones generally drag both down.
> > > > > This is not a racist view, this is what we used to
> > > > > call common sense before the cottage industry of
> > > > > political correctness was developed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brad Haslett
> > > > > "CoraShen"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Todd Tavares wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Roger,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We HAD something like that here in Maryland,
> > > > > > called the MSPAP. I
> > > > > > was initally to used to gage how well the schools
> > > > > > were teaching the
> > > > > > pupils. The schools had to pass and each year
> > > > > > show an improvement or
> > > > > > face ta ke-ove r by the state BOE.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We unfortunately did not reap such positive
> > > > > > results. Instead, the
> > > > > > results were twisted and used by a certain
> > > > > > racially based "lobbyist"
> > > > > > group (no names here), to show that minority
> > > > > > children did universally
> > > > > > worse than their white counterparts. The test
> > > > > > was supposed to be
> ; > > > > > blind and the children's sex, ethnic and economic
> > > > > > information was
> > > > > > never to be recorded...but it was.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A committee was formed by the state Board of
> > > > > > Ed to find out why
> > > > > > the minority children....all except a group named
> > > > > > the "Asian/Pacific
> > > > > > Islander Group"...were scoring po orly. The
> > > > > > committee spent two years
> > > > > > and generated a 208 page report. I studied the
> > > > > > report in painstaking
> > > > > > detail. The c onclusion was 11 reasons grouped
> > > > > > into three main root
> > > > > > causes. Poverty, Lack of parental involvement ,
> > > > > > and low self esteem.
> > > > > > When explaining why the Asian/Pacific Islander
> > > > > > Group children (approx
> > > > > > 2%) scored consistently highest in all grades and
> > > > > > genders, the
> > > > > > committee came up with a statement..to
> > > > > > paraphrase it...It is widely
> > > > > > known that Asian students are generally the
> > > > > > smarter.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Poverty meant that the children were under
> > > > > > nourished, could no t
> > > > > > buy paper and pencils, etc. Lack of parental
> > > > > > involvement is
> > > > > > self-explanatory. Low self esteem was sort of a
> > > > > > catch-all for every
> > > > > > other excuse. Low self esteem came from low self
> > > > > > worth in males
> > > > > > because of the absence of a male role model in
> > > > > > th e home setting;
> > > > > > and the instructional material did not reflect
> > > > > > enough people of color
> > > > > > or their heritage. That is about the only point
> > > > > > I could have agreed
> > > > > > with. etc, etc, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The state budgeted monies and came up with
> > > > > > very loose guidelines
> > > > > > for the counties to follow as far as what types
> > > > > > of programs and
> > > > > > activities to provide to the minorit iy students.
> > > > > > This money was to
> > > > > > specifically help only minority students who were
> > > > > > scoring poorly. The
> > > > > > counties in turn passed the money out to the
> > > > > > schools and left it up to
> > > > > > individual principals to decide how to use it.
> > > > > > (within the vague
> > > > > > guidelines mandated by the state BOE) There was
> > > > > > no accountability at
> > > > > > all. At my sons' elementary school there was
> > > > > > free breakfast and
> > > > > > lunch for minority children, free before and
> > > > > > after daycare for
> > > > > > minority children, they had the "BBC'......the
> > > > > > black boys club which
> > > > > > held field trips, pizza parties and more
> > > &g t; > > exclusively for "african
> > > > > > american" students. Hispanic, Asian and all other
> > > > > > minority students
> > > > > > were excluded....community mentoring and big
> > > > > > brother programs, etc.
> > > > > > The principal was African American, and she too k
> > > > > > all of the money
> > > > > > given out by the state, all money budgeted for
> > > > > > the gifted and talented
> > > > > > program, and even bullied the PTA into opening
> > > > > > their accounts to her
> > > > > > for the stealing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One of the county Board of Ed members is a
> > > > > > friend of ours. When she
> > > > > > spoke out against the testing and kept her
> > > > > > children home during that
> > > > > > week, she was publicly censured by the Board,
> > > > > > received a gag order
> > > > > > and was threatened with legal action for not
> > > > > > having her children at
> > > > > > in school.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thankfully so much negative publicity was
> > > > > > generated that the state
> > > > > > stopped this particular test. Now we have "No
> > > > > > Child Left Behind" and
> > > > > > no funding.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My brother and sister-in-law have thei r
> > > > > > daughter in a Catholic
> > > > > > school. There are less programs and resources
> > > > > > available than in public
> > > > > > schools. They face a different set of problems
> > > > > > though. My niece did
> > > > > > not do very well last year, but she was advanced
> > > > > > anyway. When I was
> > > > > > discussing this with my brother-in-law, he
> > > > > > reasoned that she must have > > done enough or she would
not
> > have
> > > > been advanced
> > > > > > to the next grade. I
> > > > > > could not contain my laughter. I looked him in
> > > > > > the eye and asked, "Do
> > > > > > you think they would admit that they dropped the
> > > > > > ball on educating
> > > > > > your daughter and then look you in the eye and
> > > > > > ask for another $6000
> > > > > > to repeat the sixth grade? Come on!!"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Schooling is like anything else. You only get
> > > > > > out what you put
> > > > > > in. We stay very involved with our kids
> > > > > > schooling. -proactive and
> > > > > > not reactiveand so far it has paid-off.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Todd
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Roger Pihlaja"
> > > > > > Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:22:27 -0400
> > > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" > > > > > > Subject:
[Rhodes22-list] Some Public School
> > > > > > Progra ms Work Pretty Well
> > > > > > > Here in Michigan, we have a test called the
> > > > > > Michigan Education
> > > > > > Assessment Program (MEAP). It tests skills in
> > > > > > math, science, reading,
> > > > > > writing, and critical thinking. Students that
> > > > > > score highly in the 9th,
> > > > > > 10th, 11th, & 12th grades on all sections of the
> > > > > > MEAP test can earn up
> > > > > > to $3000 towards attending a Michigan college.
> > > > > > Our older son, Daniel,
> > > > > > max ed out on the MEAP award money & it helped
> > > > > > tremendously in paying
> > &g t; > > > for his college at Northern Michigan University
> > > > > > (NMU). So far, our
> > > > > > younger son, Gary, is on track to max out as
> > > > > > well. I've seen the MEAP
> > > > > > test & it seems like a pretty reasonable tool to
> > > > > > access a student's
> > > > > > level of development. But, the MEAP test has been
> > > > > > con troversial here
> > > > > > in Michig an as well. Lots of educators don't
> > > > > > like it for all the
> > > > > > reasons cited in the earlier posts on this
> > > > > > subject.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Schools of choice also seems to work pretty
> > > > > > well here in Michigan.
> > > &g t; > > Again, both of our sons have benefite d. We live
> > > > > > in the Meridian School
> > > > > > District, a rural area that is not very wealthy.
> > > > > > Meridian High School
> > > > > > does not have a very good vocational education
> > > > > > program. However, they
> > > > > > supplement their program by participating in a
> > > > > > magnet school program
> > > > > > with the Bay-Arenac Skill Center, located in Bay
> > > > > > City, MI. Note that
> > > > > > the Bay-Arenac Skill Center is located in another
> > > > > > county, about 30
> > > > > > miles away. The Meridian School District pays
> > > > > > tuition and provides b us
> > > > > > transportat ion for our students to & from the
> > > > > > Bay-Arenac Skill Center.
> > > > > > The program is a half day, 5 days/week. Meridian
> > > > > > High S chool students
> > > > > > either take their morning or afternoon classes at
> > > > > > Meridian and then
> > > > > > the other half of the school day at the
> > > > > > Bay-Arenac Skill Center.
> > > > > > Daniel took 2 years of Computer Aided Design
> > > > > > classes at the Bay-Arenac
> > > > > > Skill Center, which has been very helpful in his
> > > > > > Graphic
> > > > > > Arts/Electronic Imaging major up at NMU. Gary has
> > > > > > benefited from this
> > > > > > program even more than Daniel. Last year, Gary
> > > > > > took his first year of
> > > > > >
> > > > > === message truncated ===
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________
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