[Rhodes22-list]Politics: Muhammed, Prophet of Doom

Thu Oct 14 10:00:20 EDT 2004

Brad,

The implication of my logic is we should have taken more TIME in 
Afghanastan. I am not sure if we needed more troops or not. We should have 
worked harder going after Bin Laden while rebuilding . We could have 
developed the intelligence. We rushed into Iraq. That is my point. We could 
have blown Iraq up when ever we wanted. It was a bad plan. We rushed in 
based on bad intel. This is a fact.

Time would have also allowed us to work with the Turks and other countries. 
What if we waited a year? Who knows what further diplomacy would have lead 
to. If we had a success story in Afghanastan I really believe this would 
have helped. If diplomacy didn't work we could blow them up without a plan 
any time we wanted.

Wally
>From: brad haslett <flybrad at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list]Politics: Muhammed, Prophet of Doom
>Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:50:00 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Wally,
>
>The implication of your logic is that had we thrown
>more men and equipment into Afghanistan we would have
>been more successful.  We did pretty well except for
>not getting THE one guy.  The Soviets spent ten years
>there with massive amounts of troops and hardware and
>couldn't prevail.  What we accomplished there in a
>short time period  is nothing less than awesome
>compared to the Soviets.  Could we have used more
>intel? Yes. But intel in that region comes from the
>local warlords, not our own people save for satellites
>and drones.  Suggesting that we somehow dropped the
>ball on Bin Laden makes for good political rhetoric
>but from a military perspective, it's simply not
>feasable to surround every mountain along the
>Afgahnistan/Pakistan border.
>
>We could have really used the 4th ID in Northern Iraq.
>  The Turks didn't co-operate and the logistics didn't
>allow them in Kuwait because the docks were already
>backed up. Military historians will debate the impact
>of that for a hundred years.  It hurt.
>
>Justification of the war will have to wait until
>tomorrow.  I've been "dozing for dollars" this
>afternoon, otherwise known as airport standby, and
>just got alerted for a departure to Orlando.  See you
>tomorrwow.
>
>Brad
>
>
>--- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Brad,
> >
> > What is bull shit???? You don't think attacking Iraq
> > reduced our focus and
> > capabilities in Afghanistan? Come on Brad get real!
> > As well read as you are
> > I would thing you would realize that fighting 2 wars
> > (multiple fronts)
> > creates problems. If the take over of Iraq was as
> > quick and easy as Bush
> > expected you might be right. However we under
> > estimated the difficulty in
> > completing our mission. We screwed this up big time!
> >
> > Sanctions were working. Yes it is true that the oil
> > for food program was a
> > disaster. As you pointed out Iraq discontinued their
> > WMD programs because of
> > the sanctions. Now what they may or may not have
> > down when the sanctions
> > ended is just speculation.
> >
> > I will tell you what is bull shit; attacking Iraq
> > because of WMD and 911.
> > You can choose to ignore the facts and buy into the
> > line of BS handed down
> > from Bush and Cheney. And you expect me to believe
> > that even though we were
> > sold a bill of goods from Bush the war is justified?
> > You have got to be
> > kidding!!!!
> >
> > Wally
> >
> >
> > >From: brad haslett <flybrad at yahoo.com>
> > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list]Politics:  Muhammed,
> > Prophet of Doom
> > >Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:00:48 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >Wally,
> > >
> > >We agree on this, there is plenty to be nervious
> > >about.  I disagree with you about sanctions
> > working.
> > >They were working for the French, Germans,
> > Russians,
> > >and Chinese, but especially the French.  The
> > >oil-for-food program was working quite well for
> > >Saddam, he continued to build palaces and buy arms.
> > It
> > >didn't stop him from continuing to support
> > terrorists
> > >by paying money to families of Palistiniens who
> > killed
> > >Jews.  The Duelfer report clearly shows Saddam
> > hadn't
> > >given up on WMD, he was just waiting for sanctions
> > to
> > >end.  Saddam's nuclear bomb builder said in the  NY
> > >Times they could re-start the nuclear program in
> > "the
> > >snap of a finger".  WMD is a political problem for
> > >Bush because that's how he sold the war, it doesn't
> > >mean the war wasn't justified.
> > >
> > >This business that everyone talks about of not
> > >concentrating on Bin Laden is Bullshit!  Let me put
> > >that in more family friendly terms, unadulterated
> > pure
> > >Bullshit!  Bin Laden most likely was at Bora Bora.
> > >The Afghans kicked the Soviets ass there.  They had
> > >the terrain, the tunnels, the escape routes, and
> > the
> > >experience. We threw thousands of air sorties
> > against
> > >them.  More boots on the ground would have meant
> > more
> > >dead American soldiers, not a more effective force.
> > >Some of the local militia leaders turned out to be
> > not
> > >trustworthy.  But, to think that we could have
> > thrown
> > >more 20 year-olds at the situation and made a
> > >difference is military foolishness.  It ignores
> > >history, terrain, and reality.  We'll get Bin Laden
> > >but that won't be the end of the problem.  This
> > fight
> > >will last for years.
> > >
> > >Unless of course you believe that terriorism is
> > just a
> > >nuisance, there is no quick solution.
> > >
> > >Brad Haslett
> > >"CoraShen"
> > >--- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >Anyone that can look at the world situation &
> > not
> > > > be really really nervous
> > > > >just doesn't grasp the significance of what's
> > going
> > > > & how quickly the
> > > > >situation could deteriorate.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I agree. The whole thing make me very nervous. I
> > can
> > > > see the current
> > > > situation escalating and dragging on for years.
> > This
> > > > is one of the reasons I
> > > > felt we should have waited a little longer to
> > work
> > > > through the problems in
> > > > Iraq. As we learn more after the fall of Saddam
> > it
> > > > appears there were no
> > > > WMD. It also appears that sanctions were
> > working. We
> > > > should have kept after
> > > > Bin Laden. It seems fairly obvious that we made
> > some
> > > > serious blunders in
> > > > this war.
> > > >
> > > > Wally
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Wally
> > > >
> > > >
> >
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