[Rhodes22-list] Outboard Repair

Fri Oct 15 11:57:19 EDT 2004

Brad,

You continually allow yourself to become so invested in your intellectual position that you refuse to listen to the experience of others.  Notwithstanding your troubled childhood, or whatever it was, you are a respected member of every community you join, and your opinions are truly valued by all.  It is OK for you to listen to others, and change your mind.

Just because an airline mechanic does something, that doesn't make it right.  Just because an engineer says something, that doesn't make it right.

You remember when cargo doors used to pop off DC-10s.  The airline mechanics and engineers screwed up big time.  You have confidence that they have changed certain professional opinions and rectified their errors, knowing they were wrong regarding their initial specifications.

I can understand why aircraft pilots would like their mechanics to throw a pinch of salt over their shoulders "just to be on the safe side".   I might be a little more superstitious, too.  But let's call it what it is.

With a little outboard on the back of a sailboat you don't need as much luck.

Yes, yes, I know about gasoline shelf life, and varnishing, and gum.  But what I am trying to tell you is that if you put that same oil and gas that 4-stroke engine owners say is "bad" into my 2-stroke engine, or Rummy's, or Ed's--our little motors are going to start up on the first pull and run just fine.

All of these products people are inserting into their cylinders are some version of "oil".  Let's not kid ourselves on this point.  I'm telling you I have never used any of them, and I have never had a problem with gasoline shelf life, varnish, gum, or engines seizing.  If I lived in Alaska I would treat my engine differently.  If I lived in Iraq I would worry more about sand.  But where most of us live, these measures, IMHO, are silly and counterproductive.

Bill

(Got to do some work now.)

Printed copies of my book "Quote Without Comment" are now available from Amazon and all Bookstores.

Ask for "Quote Without Comment" by Bill Effros--ISBN 1-5901-9587-6 

If they are out of stock add the book to your "Wish List" and they will tell you when it is back in stock--usually within 2 days.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: brad haslett 
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list 
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboard Repair

Bill, 

I wasn't speaking of mothballing in the desert.  We
did this to A/C in the Midwest for planes that were
not going to fly over the winter.  Any gasoline
mixture will develop "varnishs" if left in place too
long. Also, moisture forms in the tanks which is
precisely why aircraft are regularly sumped.  When I
flew corporate jets I ran my diesel Rabbit on the
Jet-A we sumped. The 2-cycle mixture forms "gums" more
rapidly than regular gasoline.  The technique I
refered to is good for both types.

All internal combustion engines, including jets, run
on the same principle - Suck/Squeeze/Bang/Blow. 
Getting any piston engine ready for an idle period
seeks the same goals, keep moisture out of the
cylinders, provide lubrication on start-up, don't let
fuel in the tanks and lines "go bad".  Gasoline does
have a shelf life!

Your description of 4-cycle engine start-up is not
exactly correct.  Oil is splashed on the cylinder
walls AFTER start-up just as on a 2-stroke oil is
provided via the fuel AFTER start-up.  What you want
is a nice slick lubricated cylinder wall so the rings
don't stick or gouge until the engine's
self-lubrication begins.

You'll have better luck getting me to change my vote
than to back off on this.  It ain't rocket surgery!

Brad Haslett
"CoraShen"
--- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

> Brad,
> 
> There you go again.
> 
> You read too much and evaluate too little.
> 
> I know what's been written, and I know the 40 stands
> for the 40th formulation of the product.
> 
> There is no correlation between moth-balling
> aircraft engines left in the desert for years and
> putting a 2 stroke motor in your garage over the
> winter.
> 
> I don't think you would recommend spraying cosmoline
> all over your boat for the winter, but maybe I'm
> wrong.
> 
> Bill
> 
> (PS -- We can make this fun, too.)
>                                      
> 
> Printed copies of my book "Quote Without Comment"
> are now available from Amazon and all Bookstores.
> 
> Ask for "Quote Without Comment" by Bill Effros--ISBN
> 1-5901-9587-6 
> 
> If they are out of stock add the book to your "Wish
> List" and they will tell you when it is back in
> stock--usually within 2 days.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: brad haslett 
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list 
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 9:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboard Repair
> 
> 
> Bill,
> 
> It is a lot more fun when we disagree on other
> matters.  The most important thing to do with a
> 2-stroke is to run the engine, either shut off the
> fuel supply, or run it until the tank is empty
> (either
> way, empty the tank for the winter).  Any fuel left
> in
> the tank, fuel lines, or cylinder walls will "gum"
> over the winter.  You chemists on the list can
> analyze
> the gum.  The best solution for the cylinder walls
> is
> a good misting of WD-40.  The WD stands for water
> displacement and it provides lubrication for
> start-up,
> keeps moisture from forming on the cylinder walls,
> and
> will burn on start-up. It is not a bad idea to
> re-mist
> before start-up in the spring.  This prevents stuck
> rings and softens any rust or "gums" that formed
> over
> the winter.
> 
> This is the technique we used on piston aircraft
> engines when they were "moth-balled".  If you stain
> your clothes while performing this task, WD-40 is
> also
> a good stain remover.  Never tried inhaling the
> stuff,
> might be good for that too!
> 
> Brad Haslett
> "CoraShen"
> --- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> 
> > If it's a 2-stroke you just don't need to put oil
> in
> > the cylinders.  The oil is in the gas.  The last
> > time you use the engine put in extra oil if you
> > like, but not required.  The first time you use it
> > next season put a little extra oil in the gas. 
> > Disconnect the spark plug wires.  Turn over the
> > engine a few times so the oil filled gas mixture
> > covers the walls of the cylinders.  Then start the
> > engine.  The gas/oil mixture will lubricate the
> > cylinder walls with every stroke of the engine. 
> > With 4 strokes you have to wait until the separate
> > oil system delivers oil to the cylinder walls.
> > 
> > Modern engines are so well made, none of this is
> > required, 4-strokes included.  This stuff is in
> the
> > same category as throwing a pinch of salt over
> your
> > shoulder "just to be on the safe side."  Your
> engine
> > is most vulnerable when you open up the spark plug
> > hole and inject some unknown contaminant into the
> > system.  I never open the innards of my engine to
> > the environment except to change spark
> > plugs--something I do as infrequently as possible.
> > 
> > Bill
> >                                      
> > 
> > Printed copies of my book "Quote Without Comment"
> > are now available from Amazon and all Bookstores.
> > 
> > Ask for "Quote Without Comment" by Bill
> Effros--ISBN
> > 1-5901-9587-6 
> > 
> > If they are out of stock add the book to your
> "Wish
> > List" and they will tell you when it is back in
> > stock--usually within 2 days.
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: Steve Alm 
> > To: Rhodes 
> > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 2:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboard Repair
> > 
> > 
> > Bill and Rummy,
> > Thanks.  I'll try jumping the solenoid on the old
> > Evinrude.  As for treating
> > the cylinders, last year I found this stuff in a
> > spray can that you spray
> > into the carburetor as you run it out of gas.  A
> > little more after it quits
> > and then a couple hand pulls.  I can't remember
> what
> > it's called.  BTW, my
> > Merc 8.0 is a two stroke.
> > 
> > Slim
> > 
> > On 10/14/04 1:44 PM, "R22RumRunner at aol.com"
> > <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Slim,
> > > I agree with Bill. Sounds like the starter
> > solenoid is bad. You can jump the
> > > solenoid with a screw driver across the
> terminals
> > and if the starter turns,
> > > it's definitely the solenoid.
> > > I still prefer the 2 stroke oil in the
> cylinders.
> > It might not be as thick as
> > > gear oil, but it's still slipprier than snot on
> a
> > door knob in the rain.
> > > 
> > > Rummy
> > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > 
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> http://vote.yahoo.com
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> 

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. 
http://messenger.yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list