[Rhodes22-list] Florida Relief

Wed Oct 27 00:18:25 EDT 2004

Michael,

Please slow down and read what I write before you respond.  I did not pin fault on anyone.  It is the stated position of the Bush Administration to reduce troop strength.  There is no dispute about this.  Many people from all sides of the political spectrum support this goal.  But now it is clear that we have overcommitted the troops.  What should we do?--and whoever made the comment about "knee-jerk conservatives" was completely right!  You guys are not reading what people say, you just start calling people names, inject irrelevant opinions, and completely dodge the real questions being asked.

Roger has asked the classic Guns vs. Butter question as a result of his personal experiences.  The Bush administration has responded with the slogan "Compassionate Conservatism" but what does that mean when the roof blows off your house and no one has the resources to put it back on?

Bob announced to the world that he considers himself a "Conservative" but voting for Guns AND Butter or lowering taxes in wartime is the antithesis of the conservative doctrine.

To quote from a leading Heritage Foundation economist:

"Conservatives are so afraid of losing their majority
status right now that.they're showing an astonishing
willingness to spend now and dump all the cost in our
children's laps, and an amazing unwillingness to
reconcile the size of government with the amount of
taxes needed to fund it."

Brian M. Riedl
Heritage Foundation
November 24, 2003

I think he's right.  What do you think?

Bill

Printed copies of my book "Quote Without Comment" are now available from Amazon and all Bookstores.

Ask for "Quote Without Comment" by Bill Effros--ISBN 1-5901-9587-6 

If they are out of stock they can get more copies within 3 days.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Michael Meltzer 
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list 
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Florida Relief

bill not everything is bush fault, last I heard FEMA was doing it 
thing(in fact very richly because of the timings), Remember it the state 
national guard also and what ever happened to insurance?, maybe we 
should use prison labor(seem you like slave labor in the case?), this is 
not the war in Iraq causing it, the bottom line they got smacked by 
there hurricanes in a month and a half, that allot of cleanup and a lot 
of hands and takes time. What I am wondering, Is this like the french, 
so "drunk" trying do do something that people are loosing touch with 
reality, next we will be blaming the flu shortage on bush :-) Stan is 
off the deep end on steamcells(hint the research is offshore and on 
shore is paid for by the ford foundations), everything is IRAQ for 
others. they a big stink about RDX when even thought no one know if it 
was still their when the troop came(hint crop of engineers would have 
blow it up in place if it was their, SOP). Have we reached the point 
that people do not think anymore and are will to say or do anything "for 
the good of the cause".  I like everyone is "drunk" in the mind and 
everything make sense to them not matter how off the wall, very strange.

MJM

Bill Effros wrote:

>Roger,
>
>I know you didn't say anything about the Guard or disaster relief.  I agree with you that the scale of the disaster has overwhelmed private resources.  
>
>The national debate IS going on about where the resources should come from.  The current administration says it should not come from the government.  That each of us should fix our own mobile home, and hope for charities to make up the shortfall.  The current administration also downsized the national guard, and tried to fight a war on the cheap.  That hasn't worked either.
>
>Please note, like virtually everyone on this list and in this country I have been on both sides of all of these issues.  The issues are not simple, and the simple answers never work out in practice.
>
>The problem is not a lack of awareness.  The problem is that everyone wants to get more than they give--and that just won't work.  So we fight using code words until someone like you comes along who says, in this case, he wants to give more than he gets.
>
>Fine.  I applaud that, and so do most people.  But how do we convert that impulse into a national policy?  Do you even think we should try to convert that impulse into a national policy?
>
>Bill Effros
>                                     
>
>Printed copies of my book "Quote Without Comment" are now available from Amazon and all Bookstores.
>
>Ask for "Quote Without Comment" by Bill Effros--ISBN 1-5901-9587-6 
>
>If they are out of stock they can get more copies within 3 days.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Roger Pihlaja 
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list 
>Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 7:56 PM
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Florida Relief
>
>
>Bill,
>
>I didn't say anything about deploying the National Guard to help with the
>situation in Florida, where the disaster relief resources are going to come
>from, or whether or not this is an issue the federal government should or
>should not be involved in.  I merely made the observation that we have a
>humanitarian crisis of rather large scale in Florida that is going
>unreported by the mainstream press.  It's been my experience that resources
>seem to suddenly become available whenever the press exposes situations like
>what is happening in Florida.
>
>My own sense from last week's experience is that the shear scale of the
>disaster has overwhelmed the resources available to America's churches.
>
>At the very least, I think there should be a national debate or at least an
>awareness at the national level of just how bad things still are down there
>in Florida.
>
>Roger Pihlaja
>S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 10:27 AM
>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Florida Relief
>
>
>  
>
>>Roger,
>>
>>We no longer have enough either money or people to deal with things like
>>    
>>
>this when they come up.   The National Guard used to do what you did last
>week.  There was money put aside for natural disaster relief.
>  
>
>>You are going to have to decide what you think is important.  Is this a
>>    
>>
>job for government, or not?
>  
>
>>When push comes to shove you can't find enough money or people to do the
>>    
>>
>job privately.
>  
>
>>I don't have a scripted answer for this.  I don't think you do, either.
>>
>>Bill
>>
>>
>>Printed copies of my book "Quote Without Comment" are now available from
>>    
>>
>Amazon and all Bookstores.
>  
>
>>Ask for "Quote Without Comment" by Bill Effros--ISBN 1-5901-9587-6
>>
>>If they are out of stock they can get more copies within 3 days.
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Roger Pihlaja
>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 6:09 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Leak on port side bow area of the 1983 Rhodes
>>    
>>
>22
>  
>
>>Lou,
>>
>>Again, assuming your 1981 hull is built like my 1976 hull, the bow towing
>>eye is behind a piece of decorative teak plywood in the extreme front of
>>    
>>
>the
>  
>
>>V-berth area.  On my boat, there are a couple of flat head SS wood screws
>>fastening the plywood to the cabin liner.  Unscrew those two wood screws,
>>lift off the plywood, and you will be looking at the nuts & backing plate
>>    
>>
>of
>  
>
>>the bow towing eye.  You will need a deep socket wrench to loosen these
>>nuts.
>>
>>Yes, the 1995 AWD Astro minivan in the picture is our primary tow vehicle.
>>Our Astro is rated to tow 4500 lbs, the middle of the 3 factory offered
>>towing packages.  It came with a transmission cooler.  It's a great tow
>>vehicle, perfectly adequate for towing the Rhodes 22.  I also tow my Boy
>>Scout troop trailer with the Astro, about 4000 lbs, tandem axle, fully
>>enclosed.
>>
>>Thanks for the kind words regarding the mission trip to Florida.  There
>>    
>>
>are
>  
>
>>thousands of elderly folks and migrant worker families made homeless and
>>    
>>
>now
>  
>
>>living out of their cars &/or in makeshift shelters built from scrounged
>>debris in the areas hit by these hurricanes!  We're looking at a
>>humanitarian crisis of huge proportions right here in the United States
>>    
>>
>and
>  
>
>>the press is completely ignoring it!  At times, it was hard to believe we
>>were still in the United States.
>>
>>Roger Pihlaja
>>S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Lou Rosenberg" <lsr3 at MAIL.nyu.edu>
>>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 11:26 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Leak on port side bow area of the 1983 Rhodes
>>22
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>  Roger,
>>>    Much thanks for your description of the construction of the hull
>>>and rub rail.  I have to re bed my trailer U bolt and have had to
>>>remove some of the screws holding the cabin liner.  Any words of
>>>advice on how to get to that U bolt ?
>>>
>>>  On the blewskies site the photo of your gold Astro with your son
>>>next to it.. I have the identical vehicle do you tow the boat with
>>>the Astro?  How does it do uphill??
>>>  Although I have the tow haul pkg  I plan to add the tranny cooler
>>>when I get my hitch early in 05.  Rick C helped me get my trailer
>>>from LI to Bklyn in August so I avoided a trailer expense this season.
>>>
>>>
>>>Some one who thought they could attach some sort of bumper to the
>>>front of my R22 ( 81 hull) left 4 ugly holes on the topside of the
>>>deck just above the rubrail.  I used polyester resin on the the holes
>>>and then gelcoated them now in the process of fairing and finishing.
>>>I need to change my rub rail next year but I dont think its leaking..
>>>My poptop leak was from the hatch fasteners which are now being
>>>rebedded.  Just gelcoated and reinforced my hatch.
>>>  Someone had stepped on the leading edge and cracked it. my boat was
>>>badly abused and neglected.
>>>  thanks again for that great description of the way to fix the rub
>>>      
>>>
>rail!!
>  
>
>>>  Lou
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Steve,
>>>>
>>>>Assuming your 1983 hull is constructed like my 1976 hull, the hull/deck
>>>>flange design resembles something like the lid of a shoebox.  The deck
>>>>        
>>>>
>>has a
>>    
>>
>>>>downward flange that overlaps the upper edge of the hull.  The space in
>>>>between the two components was filled with some sort of sealant & then
>>>>        
>>>>
>>the
>>    
>>
>>>>two were mechanically joined with pop rivets on about 18 inch centers.
>>>>Finally, the rub rail was installed on the outside of the hull to hide
>>>>        
>>>>
>>the
>>    
>>
>>>>seam.  On the inside, the cabin liner also has a downward flange all
>>>>        
>>>>
>>around
>>    
>>
>>>>the perimeter.  This cabin liner flange is nonstructural & there should
>>>>        
>>>>
>>be a
>>    
>>
>>>>decorative black vinyl molding thru bolted to the flange in order to
>>>>        
>>>>
>>cover
>>    
>>
>>>>the hull/deck joint.  In order to inspect the hull/deck flange, this
>>>>decorative molding will have to be removed.  When you remove any pieces
>>>>        
>>>>
>>of
>>    
>>
>>>>this molding, be certain to mark the location it came from as well as
>>>>        
>>>>
>>which
>>    
>>
>>>>end was facing towards the bow because these pieces/parts are not
>>>>interchangeable.
>>>>
>>>>The shoebox type of hull/deck flange is a pretty good design & really
>>>>shouldn't cause a problem; but, I suppose it's possible the hull/deck
>>>>        
>>>>
>>flange
>>    
>>
>>>>has developed a leak.  However, before removing the rub rail, I would
>>>>        
>>>>
>>remove
>>    
>>
>>>>the decorative molding up in the V-berth area.  If the hull/deck joint
>>>>        
>>>>
>is
>  
>
>>>>leaking; then, the most likely source is one of the pop rivets.  With
>>>>        
>>>>
>the
>  
>
>>>>decorative molding removed, you will be able to pinpoint the leak.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>Assuming
>>    
>>
>>>>the leak really is a pop rivet, you will have to remove the section of
>>>>        
>>>>
>>rub
>>    
>>
>>>>rail and drill out the pop rivet.  Then, I would cover the inside and
>>>>outside of the pop rivet hole with a HD tape like duck tape.  Take a
>>>>hypoderdermic syringe and inject as much unthickened epoxy as you can
>>>>        
>>>>
>>into
>>    
>>
>>>>the pop rivet hole.  Let the epoxy cure, drill out the hole, put in a
>>>>        
>>>>
>new
>  
>
>>>>pop rivet (or machine screw & nut), and reassemble the whole thing.
>>>>
>>>>However, it's also quite likely that once you remove the decorative
>>>>        
>>>>
>>molding,
>>    
>>
>>>>you will see the hull/deck joint is not the source of the leak.  To
>>>>        
>>>>
>>locate
>>    
>>
>>>>the leak, seal yourself up inside the cabin.  Have an assistant spray
>>>>        
>>>>
>>water
>>    
>>
>>>>on various thru bolted fittings on the foredeck and cabin top one at a
>>>>        
>>>>
>>time
>>    
>>
>>>>for several minutes each while you inspect for leakage inside the
>>>>        
>>>>
>cabin.
>  
>
>>>>It's quite likely the source of the leak is something like a deck
>>>>        
>>>>
>cleat,
>  
>
>>>>cabin port, or rail stanchion.  It's also possible you have a crack in
>>>>        
>>>>
>>the
>>    
>>
>>>>foredeck in the nonskid or the toe rail and the water is running along
>>>>        
>>>>
>>the
>>    
>>
>>>>inside of the cabin liner for some distance before dripping out where
>>>>        
>>>>
>you
>  
>
>>>>observe it.
>>>>
>>>>Tiny leaks like you have can be drive you nuts trying to track them
>>>>        
>>>>
>down!
>  
>
>>>>Good luck.
>>>>
>>>>Roger Pihlaja
>>>>S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "steve" <stevej78 at comcast.net>
>>>>To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 11:27 PM
>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Leak on port side bow area of the 1983 Rhodes
>>>>        
>>>>
>22
>  
>
>>>>Roger,
>>>>
>>>>Good evening,
>>>>
>>>>I 'm a Rhodes 22 owner with a 1983 Rhodes.  I live in Bellevue, WA., in
>>>>        
>>>>
>>the
>>    
>>
>>>>Seattle area.
>>>>
>>>>There is a leak on the port side inside the v berth of the boat.
>>>>
>>>>It's a small leak in the in the berth that weeps from the on the port
>>>>        
>>>>
>>side
>>    
>>
>>>>seams where the upper deck and hull meet..
>>>>
>>>>This leak seeps down along the port seam to the wooden support rail
>>>>        
>>>>
>which
>  
>
>>is
>>    
>>
>>>>fiber glassed in the bow.  The water continues along the rail to the
>>>>        
>>>>
>end
>  
>
>>of
>>    
>>
>>>>the rail where now the exposed wood shows dampness.
>>>>
>>>>Would the rub rail and the black holding device for the rub rail be
>>>>        
>>>>
>>removed
>>    
>>
>>>>off around the nose of the boat and using a sealant calk the joint to
>>>>        
>>>>
>>solve
>>    
>>
>>>>the leak?
>>>>
>>>>Please advise in stopping this leak.
>>>>
>>>>Thank you for your patience in reading this long email.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Steve Jacobs
>>>>
>>>>Bellevue, WA
>>>>
>>>>Stevej78 at comcast.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-
>>    
>>
>>>>----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>          
>>>>>
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>>>      
>>>
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>>
>>    
>>
>
>
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