[Rhodes22-list] Question for Roger on Florida Relief

[Bill Effros]

Roger,

I never questioned your motives or suggested you profited from what was clearly a generous humanitarian gesture, nor did I ever request any accounting from you.  Ed seems to be making a career out of misquoting people to shift the focus from the real questions people are asking.

Here is what I said:

"The problem is not a lack of awareness.  The problem is that everyone wants to get more than they give--and that just won't work.  So we fight using code words UNTIL SOMEONE LIKE YOU COMES ALONG WHO SAYS, IN THIS CASE, HE WANTS TO GIVE MORE THAN HE GETS."

The problem is not the media.  The problem is that bright people like Michael are living in some fantasy world thinking that private insurance is going to pay for everything, and that the only problem is that we don't have enough unemployed people in this country to do the work and get paid for it.

To quote Eldridge Cleaver:  "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."

I believe you must speak up when you can see that Michael just doesn't get it.  Life is a resource allocation problem.  I believe you will do more good speaking to the core issues than you will chopping down trees in Florida.

I will ask my question again, and hope to get a straight answer.  This is not a loaded question.  It does not seek a "conservative" or "liberal" view.  It has nothing to do with this election, or this administration, or any other extraneous matter.  The problem is not "the media".  The problem is us.

Here's the question:  "What do YOU think WE should do?"

Bill Effros





                    

Printed copies of my book "Quote Without Comment" are now available from Amazon and all Bookstores.

Ask for "Quote Without Comment" by Bill Effros--ISBN 1-5901-9587-6 

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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Roger Pihlaja 
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list 
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 6:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Question for Roger on Florida Relief


Ed, Bill,

Well, my church gave me $200 before I left for Florida to help pay for my
share of gas & food.  The folks at Peace Lutheran Church & the Arcadia
Methodist Church treated us like honored guests while we were there & I
didn't have to buy many meals while we were working in Florida.  On Friday,
just before we left, I estimated how much money I needed to get home.  I
donated the rest, $85, to Peace Lutheran Church in the name of Trinity
Lutheran Church in Midland, MI to help them raise the $100,000 they need for
the new roof & other repairs to their church sanctuary.  However, we didn't
do any repairs to the Peace Lutheran Church facilities.  We just lived there
while we were working in the area.  So, this trip cost me $0, just 9 days of
my life.

I think I pay pretty close attention to the news media.  Each of the
hurricanes in Florida was covered pretty well during the strike & for a day
or two afterwards.  Then, the media moved on to other issues & Florida
became yesterday's news.  Until I saw the call for volunters in the
September issue of the Lutheran magazine, I had no idea how bad the
situation still was in Florida.  The folks in Florida feel like the rest of
the country has forgotten about them.  I'm just saying this is a major
failing on the part of the mainstream news media.  There is a major
humanitarian crisis going on under their very noses in the United States and
the mainstream media has simply missed it.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

----- Original Message -----
From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:03 PM
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Question for Roger on Florida Relief


> Roger:
>
> Bill said, "The problem is not a lack of awareness.  The problem is that
> everyone wants to get more than they give"
>
> How much were you paid for your trip to Florida?
>
> I know the answer, but I think you should tell Bill.
>
> Ed K
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 8:36 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Florida Relief
>
> Roger,
>
> I know you didn't say anything about the Guard or disaster relief.  I
agree
> with you that the scale of the disaster has overwhelmed private resources.
>
> The national debate IS going on about where the resources should come
from.
> The current administration says it should not come from the government.
> That each of us should fix our own mobile home, and hope for charities to
> make up the shortfall.  The current administration also downsized the
> national guard, and tried to fight a war on the cheap.  That hasn't worked
> either.
>
> Please note, like virtually everyone on this list and in this country I
have
> been on both sides of all of these issues.  The issues are not simple, and
> the simple answers never work out in practice.
>
> The problem is not a lack of awareness.  The problem is that everyone
wants
> to get more than they give--and that just won't work.  So we fight using
> code words until someone like you comes along who says, in this case, he
> wants to give more than he gets.
>
> Fine.  I applaud that, and so do most people.  But how do we convert that
> impulse into a national policy?  Do you even think we should try to
convert
> that impulse into a national policy?
>
> Bill Effros
>
>
> Printed copies of my book "Quote Without Comment" are now available from
> Amazon and all Bookstores.
>
> Ask for "Quote Without Comment" by Bill Effros--ISBN 1-5901-9587-6
>
> If they are out of stock they can get more copies within 3 days.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Pihlaja
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 7:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Florida Relief
>
>
> Bill,
>
> I didn't say anything about deploying the National Guard to help with the
> situation in Florida, where the disaster relief resources are going to
come
> from, or whether or not this is an issue the federal government should or
> should not be involved in.  I merely made the observation that we have a
> humanitarian crisis of rather large scale in Florida that is going
> unreported by the mainstream press.  It's been my experience that
resources
> seem to suddenly become available whenever the press exposes situations
like
> what is happening in Florida.
>
> My own sense from last week's experience is that the shear scale of the
> disaster has overwhelmed the resources available to America's churches.
>
> At the very least, I think there should be a national debate or at least
an
> awareness at the national level of just how bad things still are down
there
> in Florida.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 10:27 AM
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Florida Relief
>
>
> > Roger,
> >
> > We no longer have enough either money or people to deal with things like
> this when they come up.   The National Guard used to do what you did last
> week.  There was money put aside for natural disaster relief.
> >
> > You are going to have to decide what you think is important.  Is this a
> job for government, or not?
> >
> > When push comes to shove you can't find enough money or people to do the
> job privately.
> >
> > I don't have a scripted answer for this.  I don't think you do, either.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> > Printed copies of my book "Quote Without Comment" are now available from
> Amazon and all Bookstores.
> >
> > Ask for "Quote Without Comment" by Bill Effros--ISBN 1-5901-9587-6
> >
> > If they are out of stock they can get more copies within 3 days.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Roger Pihlaja
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 6:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Leak on port side bow area of the 1983
Rhodes
> 22
> >
> >
> > Lou,
> >
> > Again, assuming your 1981 hull is built like my 1976 hull, the bow
towing
> > eye is behind a piece of decorative teak plywood in the extreme front of
> the
> > V-berth area.  On my boat, there are a couple of flat head SS wood
screws
> > fastening the plywood to the cabin liner.  Unscrew those two wood
screws,
> > lift off the plywood, and you will be looking at the nuts & backing
plate
> of
> > the bow towing eye.  You will need a deep socket wrench to loosen these
> > nuts.
> >
> > Yes, the 1995 AWD Astro minivan in the picture is our primary tow
vehicle.
> > Our Astro is rated to tow 4500 lbs, the middle of the 3 factory offered
> > towing packages.  It came with a transmission cooler.  It's a great tow
> > vehicle, perfectly adequate for towing the Rhodes 22.  I also tow my Boy
> > Scout troop trailer with the Astro, about 4000 lbs, tandem axle, fully
> > enclosed.
> >
> > Thanks for the kind words regarding the mission trip to Florida.  There
> are
> > thousands of elderly folks and migrant worker families made homeless and
> now
> > living out of their cars &/or in makeshift shelters built from scrounged
> > debris in the areas hit by these hurricanes!  We're looking at a
> > humanitarian crisis of huge proportions right here in the United States
> and
> > the press is completely ignoring it!  At times, it was hard to believe
we
> > were still in the United States.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lou Rosenberg" <lsr3 at MAIL.nyu.edu>
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 11:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Leak on port side bow area of the 1983
Rhodes
> > 22
> >
> >
> > >   Roger,
> > >     Much thanks for your description of the construction of the hull
> > > and rub rail.  I have to re bed my trailer U bolt and have had to
> > > remove some of the screws holding the cabin liner.  Any words of
> > > advice on how to get to that U bolt ?
> > >
> > >   On the blewskies site the photo of your gold Astro with your son
> > > next to it.. I have the identical vehicle do you tow the boat with
> > > the Astro?  How does it do uphill??
> > >   Although I have the tow haul pkg  I plan to add the tranny cooler
> > > when I get my hitch early in 05.  Rick C helped me get my trailer
> > > from LI to Bklyn in August so I avoided a trailer expense this season.
> > >
> > >
> > > Some one who thought they could attach some sort of bumper to the
> > > front of my R22 ( 81 hull) left 4 ugly holes on the topside of the
> > > deck just above the rubrail.  I used polyester resin on the the holes
> > > and then gelcoated them now in the process of fairing and finishing.
> > > I need to change my rub rail next year but I dont think its leaking..
> > > My poptop leak was from the hatch fasteners which are now being
> > > rebedded.  Just gelcoated and reinforced my hatch.
> > >   Someone had stepped on the leading edge and cracked it. my boat was
> > > badly abused and neglected.
> > >   thanks again for that great description of the way to fix the rub
> rail!!
> > >   Lou
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >Steve,
> > > >
> > > >Assuming your 1983 hull is constructed like my 1976 hull, the
hull/deck
> > > >flange design resembles something like the lid of a shoebox.  The
deck
> > has a
> > > >downward flange that overlaps the upper edge of the hull.  The space
in
> > > >between the two components was filled with some sort of sealant &
then
> > the
> > > >two were mechanically joined with pop rivets on about 18 inch
centers.
> > > >Finally, the rub rail was installed on the outside of the hull to
hide
> > the
> > > >seam.  On the inside, the cabin liner also has a downward flange all
> > around
> > > >the perimeter.  This cabin liner flange is nonstructural & there
should
> > be a
> > > >decorative black vinyl molding thru bolted to the flange in order to
> > cover
> > > >the hull/deck joint.  In order to inspect the hull/deck flange, this
> > > >decorative molding will have to be removed.  When you remove any
pieces
> > of
> > > >this molding, be certain to mark the location it came from as well as
> > which
> > > >end was facing towards the bow because these pieces/parts are not
> > > >interchangeable.
> > > >
> > > >The shoebox type of hull/deck flange is a pretty good design & really
> > > >shouldn't cause a problem; but, I suppose it's possible the hull/deck
> > flange
> > > >has developed a leak.  However, before removing the rub rail, I would
> > remove
> > > >the decorative molding up in the V-berth area.  If the hull/deck
joint
> is
> > > >leaking; then, the most likely source is one of the pop rivets.  With
> the
> > > >decorative molding removed, you will be able to pinpoint the leak.
> > Assuming
> > > >the leak really is a pop rivet, you will have to remove the section
of
> > rub
> > > >rail and drill out the pop rivet.  Then, I would cover the inside and
> > > >outside of the pop rivet hole with a HD tape like duck tape.  Take a
> > > >hypoderdermic syringe and inject as much unthickened epoxy as you can
> > into
> > > >the pop rivet hole.  Let the epoxy cure, drill out the hole, put in a
> new
> > > >pop rivet (or machine screw & nut), and reassemble the whole thing.
> > > >
> > > >However, it's also quite likely that once you remove the decorative
> > molding,
> > > >you will see the hull/deck joint is not the source of the leak.  To
> > locate
> > > >the leak, seal yourself up inside the cabin.  Have an assistant spray
> > water
> > > >on various thru bolted fittings on the foredeck and cabin top one at
a
> > time
> > > >for several minutes each while you inspect for leakage inside the
> cabin.
> > > >It's quite likely the source of the leak is something like a deck
> cleat,
> > > >cabin port, or rail stanchion.  It's also possible you have a crack
in
> > the
> > > >foredeck in the nonskid or the toe rail and the water is running
along
> > the
> > > >inside of the cabin liner for some distance before dripping out where
> you
> > > >observe it.
> > > >
> > > >Tiny leaks like you have can be drive you nuts trying to track them
> down!
> > > >Good luck.
> > > >
> > > >Roger Pihlaja
> > > >S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "steve" <stevej78 at comcast.net>
> > > >To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 11:27 PM
> > > >Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Leak on port side bow area of the 1983
Rhodes
> 22
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Roger,
> > > >
> > > >Good evening,
> > > >
> > > >I 'm a Rhodes 22 owner with a 1983 Rhodes.  I live in Bellevue, WA.,
in
> > the
> > > >Seattle area.
> > > >
> > > >There is a leak on the port side inside the v berth of the boat.
> > > >
> > > >It's a small leak in the in the berth that weeps from the on the port
> > side
> > > >seams where the upper deck and hull meet..
> > > >
> > > >This leak seeps down along the port seam to the wooden support rail
> which
> > is
> > > >fiber glassed in the bow.  The water continues along the rail to the
> end
> > of
> > > >the rail where now the exposed wood shows dampness.
> > > >
> > > >Would the rub rail and the black holding device for the rub rail be
> > removed
> > > >off around the nose of the boat and using a sealant calk the joint to
> > solve
> > > >the leak?
> > > >
> > > >Please advise in stopping this leak.
> > > >
> > > >Thank you for your patience in reading this long email.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Steve Jacobs
> > > >
> > > >Bellevue, WA
> > > >
> > > >Stevej78 at comcast.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -
> > > >----
> > > >
> > > >
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>
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