Fw: [Rhodes22-list] The War of 1812

Fri Oct 29 11:09:09 EDT 2004

Roger,

The War Hawks were interested in westward expansion.  The British (and everyone else} had their way with us on the high seas because we didn't have a navy.  Tecumseh was very angry with his brother for the attack at Tippecanoe as it undercut his plan.  Washington got burned down to the ground because we didn't have a plan for homeland defense, and left it unguarded.  The invasion of Canada was a diversion that went badly.  The westward expansion could have been accomplished at much less cost, and probably without the enduring fiction of treaties with sovereign Indian nations.

Or, as our President so eloquently put it:

http://politicalhumor.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=politicalhumor&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ifilm.com%2Fifilmdetail%2F2646755

Bill

"Are You Safer Today Than You Were 4 Years Ago?"

www.QuoteWithoutComment.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Roger Pihlaja 
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list 
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 9:00 AM
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] The War of 1812

Bill,

According to Greg D. Feldmeth, "US History Resources", the war of 1812 had a
lot more causes than simply a land grab from the Indians.
For example:

Year    Event
1806    Napoleon excluded British goods from "Fortress Europe".  The British
responded with a blockade
            & American merchant ships were caught in the middle.  The
British seized about 1000 American ships.

1803-1812 British military ships stopped American merchant ships on the high
seas and impressed
                  over 10,000 American sailors to involuntarily serve on
British ships.

1807    The American merchant ship, Chesapeake, refused to stop for the
British military ship, Leopard
            in US territorial waters about 3 miles off Norfolk, VA.  The
Leopard opened fire, killing 3
            Americans & wounding 18 more.

1810    The "War Hawks" get elected to congress.

1811    The Battle of Tippecanoe in the Ohio River Valley was an attack by
Tecumseh's brother
            (The Prophet) on Harrison's army of about 1000 soldiers

June 18, 1812  Congress declares war.  All the Federalists oppose the war

Note that the initial battles in the War of 1812 were American defeats, such
as the British capture of Fort Mackinaw on Mackinaw Island in the Straights
of Mackinaw, Lake Huron.  These attacks were launched from British bases in
Canada.  Note that the British crossed our border 1st because they had
better communication with their military outposts.  The American military
believed the best defense was a good offense & that taking Canada out of
British hands would have made British invasion of the United States more
difficult.  The British had launched their major offensives during the
Revolutionary War from Canada.  The Battle of the Chesapeake in 1814, during
which the British captured & burned Washington D.C., was launched from
Canada.  The burning of Washington was intended as British retribution for
the American burning of Toronto.

Certainly, there was a desire to seize land from the American Indians to
facilitate American westward expansion.  US/Indian relations can only be
described as "poor" in the period following the American Revolution.  But,
note that the Indians started their war with America, (with British support
& weapons) BEFORE the War of 1812 started.  One can argue that by
encouraging and arming the Indians, the British were meddling in internal
American affairs.

The American's made 3 attempts to invade Canada in 1812.  As you noted, all
3 of these attempts were repelled.  It was a case of the military technology
of the time greatly favoring the defenders & of the US military not
attacking with sufficient strength to overcome the defenses.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was that the British gave the
Americans no respect.  This British contempt for America continued after the
British defeat in the Revolutionary War & was a big reason why the British
thought they could simply seize American merchant ships and sailors on the
high seas in the run up to the War of 1812.  America needed to be global
trading partner & simply could not afford to have its ships and sailors
seized like this.

Certainly, the causes of the War of 1812 were controversial at the time and
remain so to this day.  The country was divided.  One of the major things
the United States came away from the War of 1812 with was a far better sense
of our own national identity.  We also won some respect & safety for our
ships & sailors from the British.  Of course, the biggest losers were the
American Indians.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 12:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes owners in Canada preferably Ontario
>
>
> Mark,
>
> As I'm sure you know, but Michael probably doesn't, what Americans call
"The War of 1812" is better remembered in Canada as "The
> Invasion of Canada".  It did not go well for the United States, and
resulted in the British burning down Washington, D.C.  It was
> started by a faction in the United States Congress known as the "War
Hawks" who really wanted to attack the Indians so the Americans
> could take their land.  A handful of Canadians repeatedly repelled a much
larger force of Americans.  The Americans had no plan.
> They expected to be greeted as liberators.  The separate Indian tribes
were galvanized by the attack, and joined together to fight
> the westward expansion of the United States.
>
> Ah, history.
>
> Please don't encourage these guys to try it again.  They know not what
they do.
>
> Bill Effros
>
>
> "Are You Safer Today Than You Were 4 Years Ago?"
>
> www.QuoteWithoutComment.com
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark Skapinker
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:39 AM
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes owners in Canada preferably Ontario
>
>
> You don't get it, do you? We really like elections in French. That way,
> most of us don't understand anything the politicians are saying. Believe
> me, it's much better that way.
>
> By the way, if you are going to invade, you had better do it soon before
> the Canadian dollar becomes worth more than yours! In fact, if you
> attack before next week, you could get a lot more voters in the
> election. It should only take about 15 minutes to take Canada - it is
> cold now, and so most people are already in Florida.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Michael Meltzer
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 10:22 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes owners in Canada preferably Ontario
>
> Canada elections, we have to go thought Canada election, in french to
> boot, We should invade before it comes to that :-)
>
> MJM
>
>
>
> Mark Skapinker wrote:
>
> >Hi Barbara,
> >Where about in Ontario are you? I have a Rhodes22 that I bought last
> >spring. I keep it in Toronto on Lake Ontario in the spring and the
> >fall, and this year I kept it on Lake Muskoka for the summer.
> >I would be happy to share my experiences of the boat (I love it!!), of
> >importing it into Canada (fairly straightforward), and working with
> >Stan and Elton (wonderful). The only problem is that it is *about* to
> >be winterized and may already be shrinkwrapped if you want to see it
> >before next spring.
> >Besides which, it would be GREAT to have someone on this web site who
> >was focused on sailing in Canada instead of the US election <g>.
> >Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Barbara
> >Zarzosa
> >Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 3:28 PM
> >To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes owners in Canada preferably Ontario
> >
> >Hello everybody,
> >Not too long ago I had the misfortune of falling in love with a Rhodes
> >I saw at a boat show. I say misfortune because I know that right now,
> >since I'm in the midst of downsizing my home now that the kids have
> >moved out, I can't afford to buy one of my own (sigh). I feel like the
> >little kid with her nose pressed against the toystore window lovingly
> >admiring a little red wagon.
> >
> >Anyhow, I've downloaded and printed out pictures of other people's
> >Rhodes and they are my middle-aged "pin-ups" replacing the long
> >forgotten pin-ups of the dreamboats of my youth. ha, ha.
> >
> >I am new to sailing - got the bug this past season - and over the fall
> >I'm taking the CPS boating course so I can learn to safely navigate
> >around. Over the past few months I have been researching little
> >trailerable boats and I know that a Rhodes is in my future. However,
> >since I am so new to the whole scene, I have many questions.
> >
> >I know the Rhodes are built in the US and I wonder what is involved in
> >buying a boat (used or recycled) from the US and bringing it to Canada.
> >Are there many Canadian Rhodes owners? I'll leave my questions at that
> >for now.
> >
> >Thanks in advance,
> >Barbara.
> >__________________________________________________
> >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >__________________________________________________
> >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>

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