[Rhodes22-list] What do you do with monsters?

Chris Geankoplis napoli68 at charter.net
Sat Sep 4 22:35:29 EDT 2004 

Roger, thanks for the voice of reason and tone, I wish I could be as
eloquent.  Lets talk boats!

Chris G
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Date: Saturday, September 04, 2004 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] What do you do with monsters?


>Gentlemen,
>
>After a great deal of thought, I've decided I'm going to vote for
>Kerry/Edwards in November.  Let me explain why.
>
>1st of all, there is absolutely no doubt that Iraq had WMD.  By that I mean
>stockpiles of chemical & biological weapons, the means to produce them,
>systems to deliver them, & a well-developed nuclear weapons program, if not
>actual nukes.  Saddam Hussein acted like he had something to hide, had a
>well-documented history of using WMD against Iran and his own people, and
>had a fanatically loyal organization in place which would use these WMD if
>ordered.  Now, several thousand liters of the most toxic stuff known to man
>does not just disappear.  Yet, published reconnaissance data does not show
>any sort of incineration facility in Iraq (Big Footprint - Hard To Hide).
>There are no records of the disposal operation.  There are no witnesses to
>the disposal operation, which had to require many months, if not years to
>accomplish.  Yet, we haven't been able to find significant quantities of
WMD
>in Iraq.
>
>So, which is the more reasonable conclusion?  The entire world intelligence
>community was wrong about Iraq's WMD program for over 10 years.  Or, the
>WMD's were either hidden somewhere in the vast deserts of Iraq &/or
smuggled
>over the relatively porous borders during the wartime chaos into places
like
>Syria, Lebanon, and Afghanistan?  I believe the WMD's are either in some
>relatively insecure, unguarded hiding place or are already in the hands of
>terrorists.  If I lived in Israel, I would be very very nervous.  Mark my
>words, we have not seen the last of Iraq's WMD's.
>
>Why haven't we already seen these WMD's used?  Well, of course it's hard to
>get into the head of someone like Osoma Bin Laden or Yassir Arafat.  But, I
>would speculate these terrorist organizations do not want to tip their
hands
>that they have WMD's until the US & British forces in the Middle East are
>drawn down.  After all, the US & British militaries are the best equipped
to
>detect and function in a biochemical hazard scenario.  Plus, the Bush
>administration would not hesitate to invade whatever Middle Eastern country
>played the WMD card with the forces currently in place in the Middle East.
>
>So why Kerry over Bush?  Well, I believe the nature of the game has changed
>in a way that Bush cannot cope with, given his bullish style and apparent
>lack of diplomatic skill.  Bush did the world a tremendous service in
>invading Afghanistan and Iraq.  There was a fair chance to capture & secure
>the WMD's and the world is vastly better off without the Taliban and the
>Hussein regimes.  But, apparently the gamble did not pay off and the WMD's
>got away.  Bush has used up all of his & the USA's political capital and
the
>world's good will towards the USA to accomplish what's been done to date.
>But, the terrorist cancer has metacized and moved on to other countries.
>The only way to deal with the threat now is with much more help and
>cooperation from the rest of the world.  This can't happen with Bush in the
>white house.  With a change of administration, other countries can
>gracefully save face & join in the hunt for the terrorists and WMD's.
>Please note, this is not a slam against Bush.  I think he did a hard nasty
>job that needed doing and the world owes him a tremendous dept of gratitude
>for his moral courage.  It was a worthwhile gamble that did not completely
>work out according to plan.  But, we live in a dangerous, scary period of
>history and it's time to move on to a workable strategy.
>
>Plus, I think the Bush administration is just completely wrong headed
>regarding the management of the US economy.  They don't seem to even
>understand the issues, much less have workable solutions to propose.
>Kerry/Edwards at least seem to understand the problems.  Whether their
>solutions will ever be implemented or work, given continued Republican
>control of congress is another matter.
>
>That's why I'm voting for Kerry/Edwards in November.
>
>Now, can we please back down on the nasty political retoric?  I perceive
>Bush & Kerry to be a couple of the finest Americans alive today.  The
issues
>in this election are far too important and the stakes are much too high to
>have the election decided by petty arguing.  Keep your eye on the ball
>people!
>
>Roger Pihlaja
>S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 10:19 AM
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] What do you do with monsters?
>
>
>> Chris
>> If this is your 2 cents; I would ask for my money
>> back!!!!!!!!
>>
>> Chris are you really so stupid that the fact that we
>> were ready to go to war and had built up our military
>> so superior to the Soviets; that this was not the
>> reason we won.  When we started the Star War
>> initiative; that was the final straw; the soviets did
>> not have the techonlogy or money brains to complete
>> with us.  We our spent them, out thought them and had
>> the balls to back it up.
>>
>> I cannot believe you don't know what the Mission
>> Accomplish ment to the military.  We took over the
>> country - Mission Accomplish.  The police action will
>> continue on until the terrorists are killed off but
>> the good part of that is that the terrorists are in
>> Iraq.  Where our Military is and where they can handle
>> it.
>>
>> Chris, come on, think a little, you kill the
>> terrorists until they are no more, or until common
>> police can handle the problem.  Bending over and
>> kissing the terrorists ass will do no good.  Talking
>> to them will do no good.  Waiting on them to cave in
>> does no good. Killing them solves the problem.
>>
>> Chris - I know that all you liberals want everthing to
>> be happy, pretty, everybody to get alone; you CANNOT
>> have freedom unless someone is willing to fight & die
>> for it so that this country can keep FREEDOM.  I know
>> it tough to think this way; you are social, liberal
>> type thinkers.  But give me a break, This Bullshit is
>> to stupid.  The only reason this country is Free - is
>> because of all the wars we have fought and the fact
>> that we have a miltary ready to go to war at a second
>> notice.  This is stupid bullshit.  Can all you
>> liberals not think a little bit.
>>
>> Stan - why are you pushing your liberal thinking out
>> on this LIST.  You are old enough to know better.  You
>> should be ashame of yourself.
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Chris Geankoplis <napoli68 at charter.net> wrote:
>>
>> > My 2 cents:
>> >                 A couple of questions Steve.  We won
>> > the cold war by bombing
>> > the Soviet Union right?  Don't give me the" we were
>> > ready to fight or
>> > deterence argument", remember you seem to think any
>> > action however ill
>> > thought out is better than thoughtful engagement.
>> >
>> > Good point "Lobbing bombs does no good untill the
>> > country falls.  Any
>> > country in paticular? Or just one that is
>> > convienient.  Oh, that's right we
>> > did that to Iraq and they fell. Mission
>> > accomplished!  And look at all the
>> > terrorist who decided to find another job. (many are
>> > pushing up daisies
>> > right now, but we have their 13 cousins standing in
>> > the dead guys place).
>> > When one of our kids are killed do you want to give
>> > it up?  No.  When 1000
>> > of our kids get killed I don't hear you saying that
>> > it is time to change
>> > course.  Well what in hell do you think the Islamic
>> > terrorists say when we
>> > kill a mess of them?  "Oh lets give up because we
>> > are cowards and not
>> > commited".   There will be no military victory, it
>> > must be played out on a
>> > much broader field.  Why do so many people think
>> > only we will stay the
>> > course and not be detered by the death of of our
>> > troops, but those camel
>> > jockeys will shurly cave in any day?
>> > Chris G.
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
>> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> > Date: Friday, September 03, 2004 1:13 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] What do you do with
>> > monsters?
>> >
>> >
>> > >Excellent Wally, I will add this one to the list of
>> > >liberal cowards!!!!!!!!!
>> > >Steve
>> > >
>> > >PS - When everyone quits fighting; then no one will
>> > be
>> > >free.  Freedom is NOT free. Someone has to fight
>> > for
>> > >it.  Remember this when you go to vote.  You can't
>> > >count on a liberal to fight for you.  See
>> > >below!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> > >
>> > >--- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Steve,
>> > >>
>> > >> I am not going to get dragged into another round
>> > of
>> > >> politcal emails but
>> > >> ...... are you saying if one is held up a gun
>> > point
>> > >> you advice is to fight
>> > >> back? Are you serious?
>> > >>
>> > >> Even if you are packing heat most of us are not
>> > real
>> > >> good on the quick draw.
>> > >> I don't carry anything in my wallet that is worth
>> > >> getting shot over. Do you?
>> > >>
>> > >> You have posted many emails that show you have a
>> > >> hard time destinguishing
>> > >> between bravery and common sense. I will just add
>> > >> this one to the list.
>> > >>
>> > >> Yeah I know, you will tell me that I am just a
>> > weak
>> > >> liberal blah blah blah
>> > >> ......
>> > >>
>> > >> Hey I am out of here! Spending tonight on the
>> > boat,
>> > >> racing in the morning,
>> > >> seafood boil and keg part in the evening! I hope
>> > >> everyone has a great
>> > >> weekend!
>> > >>
>> > >> Wally
>> > >>
>> > >> Wally
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> >From: Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
>> > >> >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>> > >> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> > >> >To: stan <stan at rhodes22.com>,The Rhodes 22 mail
>> > >> list
>> > >> ><rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> > >> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] What do you do with
>> > >> monsters?
>> > >> >Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 10:10:44 -0700 (PDT)
>> > >> >
>> > >> >Stan
>> > >> >I just don't understand why so many of you all
>> > >> worry
>> > >> >so much about our image overseas.  When push
>> > comes
>> > >> to
>> > >> >shove; This country is the one that the plantet
>> > >> turns
>> > >> >to to fix the problem.  The French can win
>> > >> anything.
>> > >> >They don't spend enough on weapons.  Germany has
>> > >> had
>> > >> >the crap kick out of it twice last century and
>> > >> doesn't
>> > >> >have what it takes to do anything.  Beside, as
>> > the
>> > >> >Democrates say; the USA still Occupies Germany.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >Peace can only remain if a country is willing to
>> > >> fight
>> > >> >for it.  We have to fight and take the fight to
>> > >> them.
>> > >> >Otherwise, they will bring the fight to us.
>> > LIke I
>> > >> >have said before, you can thank Clinton for the
>> > >> 3,000
>> > >> >deaths.  When the terrorists started hammering
>> > us;
>> > >> we
>> > >> >should have fought back.  Lobbing bombs does no
>> > >> good
>> > >> >unless it's continueous untill the country
>> > falls.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >Gore would not have retaliated after 911.  Why
>> > >> anyone
>> > >> >would think he would is beond me.  After all,
>> > what
>> > >> did
>> > >> >Clinton do.  Gore would have followed Clinton
>> > lead.
>> > >> >Kerry would make a lousy President.  He has no
>> > >> >balls!!!!!!!!!!!  Bottom line.  You can't have a
>> > >> >President like Kerry in time of war that worries
>> > >> about
>> > >> >making people mad.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >Terrorism is not climing.  We are killing the
>> > hell
>> > >> out
>> > >> >of them.  Last I heard, our kill ratio is like
>> > way
>> > >> >over 20 to 1.  Sometimes we kill hundreds of
>> > them &
>> > >> >maybe only lose 1 of ours.  That great for a
>> > war.
>> > >> You
>> > >> >can't ask for better ratio than that.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >Just so everyone know, the only way to make
>> > >> terrorists
>> > >> >act right is kill them.  They act just find when
>> > >> thier
>> > >> >dead.  And we don't have to rebuild anything,
>> > what
>> > >> we
>> > >> >are doing in Agfan & Iraq is more than enough.
>> > We
>> > >> >will help them alone and eventually it will get
>> > >> >rebuilt.  And it don't hurt to let them rebuilt
>> > it
>> > >> >themselves.  Nothing says we have to do it all
>> > for
>> > >> >them.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >Also, the biggest thing that helping in the war
>> > on
>> > >> >terrorism; is the fact that we have a BIG
>> > miltary
>> > >> >present over in the middle east.  Fully ready to
>> > >> beat
>> > >> >the crap out of any country.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >Anyway, this is a waist of my time but I don't
>> > want
>> > >> >this list to be totally without at least one
>> > >> senable
>> > >> >view on how the world works.  If you are ever
>> > held
>> > >> up
>> > >> >and someone has a gun in your face, do you
>> > coward
>> > >> down
>> > >> >or fight back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Life is not worst
>> > >> living
>> > >> >as a coward.
>> > >> >Steve
>> > >> >
>> > >> >--- stan <stan at rhodes22.com> wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > love politics
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > My grandkids visited the twin towers a day
>> > >> before
>> > >> > > they collapsed
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Nonetheless, this should not be a one issue
>> > >> election
>> > >> > > nor is there any proof
>> > >> > > that no one else could have done a better job
>> > >> > > fighting terrorism after the
>> > >> > > act, than Bush.  For instance, if you would
>> > have
>> > >> > > made me dictator I would
>> > >> > > have used all that money to finish what we
>> > >> started
>> > >> > > in Afghanistan and turned
>> > >> > > that into a model country to soften the "Ugly
>> > >> > > American" image.  I won't
>> > >> > > argue the amount but will argue the
>> > direction:
>> > >> Not
>> > >> > > following the usual
>> > >> > > American premature bailout policy and instead
>> > >> > > properly implementing our
>> > >> > > stated goals for Afghanistan, would have cut
>> > the
>> > >> > > rate of terrorists
>> > >> > > recruitment - now climbing and so increasing
>> > our
>> > >> > > need to fight terrorism
>> > >> > > more and more.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Like so many religions, acting like we are
>> > the
>> > >> only
>> > >> > > ones with the right
>> > >> > > answer is a sign of the planet's immaturity.
>> > If
>> > >> we
>> > >> > > are lucky, we might live
>> > >> > > to grow up.  But I doubt it - unless you get
>> > to
>> > >> work
>> > >> > > on those placards:
>> > >> > > Spitzer for Dictator, He is the only one with
>> > >> the
>> > >> > > right answers.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >     (that's the problem with dictators - they
>> > >> get
>> > >> > > carried away - anyone got
>> > >> > > a better answer - or at least, anyone for
>> > >> tennis?
>> > >> > > One of the richest
>> > >> > > prospects I ever met said to me, "It is too
>> > >> late,
>> > >> > > enjoy yourself.").
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > stan/gbi
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > >> > > From: "Gardner, Douglas (LNG-DAY)"
>> > >> > > <douglas.gardner at lexisnexis.com>
>> > >> > > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
>> > >> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> > >> > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 10:02 AM
>> > >> > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] What do you do with
>> > >> > > monsters?
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > > While we're so focused on Bush attacking
>> > >> Kerry's
>> > >> > > service in vietnam, and
>> > >> > > > Kerry attacking Bush & Cheney's avoidance
>> > of
>> > >> > > service in vietnam, I'd like
>> > >> > > > to
>> > >> > > > point to Russia for a second:
>> > >> > > >
>> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3624024.stm
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > > > and ask a question: What do you do with
>> > people
>> > >> who
>> > >> > > believe killing
>> > >> > > > children
>> > >> > > > is a good way to get sympathy for their
>> > cause?
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > > > I'll leave my comments at the question.
>> > >> Because
>> > >> > > right now, my own
>> > >> > > > thoughts
>> > >> > > > on this matter are simply too ugly to write
>> > >> down,
>> > >> > > and certainly too ugly
>> > >> > > > to
>> > >> > > > broadcast in public.
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > > > After my anger subsides a bit, I might
>> > return
>> > >> to
>> > >> > > my beliefs in the rights
>> > >> > > > afforded to people in our Constitution and
>> > the
>> > >> > > Bill of Rights, the
>> > >> > > > importance of due process, and my beliefs
>> > that
>> > >> you
>> > >> > > must not punish a
>> > >> > > > person
>> > >> > > > for the offenses of another.
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > > > For now, I'll let my anger seethe and
>> > wonder
>> > >> what
>> > >> > > kind of pathological
>> > >> > > > society or religion could allow these kinds
>> > of
>> > >> > > acts to go unpunished.
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > > > --Doug
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > > > PS: lest anyone be confused... no, I do not
>> > >> intend
>> > >> > > this message to imply I
>> > >> > > > support Bush. Please see my references to
>> > the
>> > >> > > constitution and bill of
>> > >> > > > rights before you infer who I support for
>> > >> > > president. My preferred
>> > >> > > > candidate
>> > >> > > > isn't running. You cannot defeat hate and
>> > >> > > injustice with more hate and
>> > >> > > > more
>> > >> > > > injustice.  I'll speak no more on that
>> > subject
>> > >> in
>> > >> > > this forum.
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > > >
>> > >>
>> > __________________________________________________
>> > >> > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>> > >> > > www.rhodes22.org/list
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >>
>> > __________________________________________________
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>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
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