[Rhodes22-list] Weber's Analysis of Lee helm
Bob Weber
ruba1811 at hotmail.com
Fri Sep 17 09:36:01 EDT 2004
Ed, Im just guessing, I know the go fast people spend a lot of time fairing
- and refairing after a number of seasons and coats of paint to get it
perfect. It involves several precise templates. I would not think it is a
molding issue since the influence of the Keel portion of the
Keel/Centerboard is small enough to not really influence the boat that much.
A twist in the centerboard would do such thing. That is what happened to
my RC Sailboat when I tried to cram it into the wrong spot in my car. Bob
>From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Weber's Analysis of Lee helm
>Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 08:32:39 -0400
>
>
>Bob:
> Congratulations! You have come up with a very different analysis of
>the problem. Could you now suggest a more detailed way to test the fairing
>of the centerboard and keel?
> Does this mean that it is only her centerboard and/or keel? Is
>there a problem in molds for the keel or centerboard? Could it have been
>caused by damage or curing?
> By fairing, I assume that you are saying that one or the other or
>both are not shaped correctly. If we go to sanding to shape the keel or
>centerboard, won't we be getting into the fiberglass? Can you give a more
>detailed analysis?
>
>Ed K
>
>Ed K
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bob Weber
>Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:13 PM
>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee helm
>
>Mary Lou, I am inclined to believe your problem is in the fairing of the
>centerboard or keel. Does the boat sail right on anchor in a current? In
>a
>
>calm marina put someone onboard, put the rudder up and give the boat a
>shove. If it steer right that is your problem. You may have to repeat
>this
>
>a few times to ensure accuracy of results. That meathod worked well on
>fairing the keel on my RC sailboat - of course it was much easier to do
>repeated times. Another guess is that the piviot for the CB is not
>horizontal and the board retracts at an angle toward the Port Side. This
>would not manifest the Right turning tendancy until under sail. Just a
>guess but the testing should be cheap and not require a haul-out. Good
>luck
>
>Bob Weber
>
>
> >From: Mary Lou Troy <mltroy at verizon.net>
> >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee helm
> >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 20:26:11 -0400
> >
> >Thanks Steve (and everyone else) for your thoughts on our boat that wants
> >to go right.
> >
> >Here's a summary of the problem and the possibilities offered by the
>group.
>
> >I'm writing this in hopes that if all the ideas are in one place someone
> >will say "what about.....?" and we'll say "eureka..."
> >
> >We've had lee helm issues with Fretless since we got her. The learning
> >curve learning to sail her and the fluky wind and current conditions on
>the
>
> >Chesapeake have slowed us down diagnosing the problem.
> >
> >She has always sailed better on starboard than on port. When we set her
>up
> >this spring we lengthened the forestay and took up the backstays. In a
>nice
>
> >breeze with a full main and genoa this gave us a small amount of weather
> >helm on starboard and less lee helm on port. It also made us really pay
> >attention to the difference between her behavior on port and starboard.
> >
> >Roger mentioned looking at how she sits on her lines and indeed she does
> >have a slight list to starboard sitting in the slip (in spite of the
> >outboard, 7 gallons of gas and the battery all stored to port. Bill
>Effros
> >said he thought that if the boat was too heavy to port it would turn to
> >starboard. These two thoughts seem to contradict each other but we'll
>work
> >a bit more on her trim.
> >
> >Bill & Slim mentioned heel as a contributor to weather helm but I think
>we
> >heel about the same on port and starboard. Those fluky winds make it hard
> >to tell.
> >
> >Slim mentioned that in addition to increasing the aft rake of his mast,
>he
> >experimented with the centerboard and found he could increase weather
>helm
> >by raising the board. We may play some more with this as Stan's original
> >suggestion to us was to let the board drop a bit more by moving the knot
>in
>
> >the pennant. That doesn't, however, address the fact that she wants to
>turn
>
> >to starboard.
> >
> >Steve mentioned sail trim in heavy air and this is an area where we
>really
> >don't know as much as we should but we've been playing with the outhaul
>and
>
> >the traveller and have achieved some improvements in the helm but not in
> >the difference between port and starboard tacks.
> >
> >Jim Connolly mentioned a similar port/starboard problem but then
>mentioned
> >that he thought he had a spreader problem that might be contributing. As
> >near as I can tell, our mast is straight and centered. We tune the rig
>with
>
> >a Loos gauge and have measured with a halyard to the chainplates. We'll
> >take a look at the spreaders though.
> >
> >Lastly, Steve and Slim mentioned that maybe something was out of whack
>with
>
> >the keel, the centerboard or the rudder. We'll take a look at those
> >possibilities. There's nothing immediately visible with the keel or the
> >rudder. The centerboard appears to drop cleanly and not bind or thump
>about
>
> >significantly but we've never taken a really good look at it. Fretless
>has
> >an unusual repair (?) to her centerboard trunk (there is a flat plate
> >glassed over the forward part of the trunk - between the trunk and the
> >centerboard cap) that prevents us from removing the centerboard in the
> >usual fashion).
> >
> >Anybody else have any ideas?
> >
> >Thanks again for helping us think about this.
> >
> >Mary Lou
> >1991 R22 Fretless
> >Swan Creek, MD / Ft. Washington, PA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 06:30 AM 9/15/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >>Mary Lou
> >>The board needs to be down when goin to windward or
> >>your will drift. Losening the headstay and raking the
> >>mast back but keeping it streight; I don't think will
> >>solve any problem.
> >>
> >>Since this has been a problem since the beginni ng.
> >>Maybe it something easy. Like the rudder not
> >>centerred on stern. Maybe rudder not balanced.
> >>Posible twist in the rudder blade. Proper angle of
> >>the blade being changed with increase speed. Could be
> >>also that in heavier wind that you are not flating
> >>your sails enough. Just thinking out loud.
> >>Steve
> >>
> >>
> >>--- Mary Lou Troy <mltroy at verizon.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Slim,
> >> > We've had the problem for as long as we've had the
> >> > boat. It's been better
> >> > or worse depending on how well we set the boat up in
> >> > the Spring but it's
> >> > only this year that we've realized that the lee helm
> >> > / port, weather helm
> >> > starboard issue means that the boat is consistently
> >> > wanting to turn
> >> > right. This spring when we tuned the rig we used
> >> > our spare halyard to
> >> > measure to the chainplates and verify that the mast
> >> > is straight. We just
> >> > eyeballed it in the past.
> >> >
> >> > One additional factor - for those who are not yet
> >> > bored by the whole
> >> > subject - the boat is faster by nearly a knot on
> >> > starboard.
> >> >
> >> > As far as we know nothing happened to our keel. It
> >> > seems to drop straight
> >> > without binding. If we have the boatyard haul it
> >> > this year maybe we'll see
> >> > if we can drop the board while it's in the slings
> >> > and see if we see any
> >> > problems.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks again.
> >> >
> >> > Mary Lou
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > At 03:04 PM 9/14/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >> > >Mary Lou,
> >> > >
> >> > >You said you checked the mast to see if it's
> >> > straight. Are you just
> >> > >eyeballing or have you taken precise measurements?
> >> > For a quick test, use
> >> > >your topping lift and bring it down to the
> >> > chainplates of the upper shrouds
> >> > >and compare results port and starboard.
> >> > >
> >> > >Have you had Fretless out of the water lately and
> >> > inspected the under side?
> >> > >Maybe something happened your keel.
> >> > >
> >> > >Slim
> >> > >
> >> > >On 9/13/04 5:43 PM, "Mary Lou Troy"
> >> > <mltroy at verizon.net> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > At 02:06 PM 9/13/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >> > > >> Mary Lou, I think Bill's on to something here.
> >> > The more the boat heels,
> >> > > >> the greater
> >> > > >> the weather helm. So maybe you're heeling more
> >> > on a starboard tack.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Slim, I don't think we heel more on one tack
> >> > than the other but we'll check
> >> > > > it out next time we have a nice steady breeze.
> >> > We certainly have more
> >> > > > weather helm when heeled way over but there is
> >> > still a distinct difference
> >> > > > between port and starboard. The boat always
> >> > wants to turn right.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> Do you have an inclinometer so you can tell
> >> > exactly how much heel you
> >> > > >> have? If
> >> > > >> not, can you jury-rig some kind of little plumb
> >> > bob--maybe a modified
> >> > > >> gimbled drink holder would do.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > No inclinometer but we'll pay attention.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> In lighter air, when your 175% is all the way
> >> > out, do you still have
> >> > > the lee
> >> > > >> helm on port but not starboard?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Yes although in light air it's more neutral helm
> >> > on starboard and lee helm
> >> > > > on port.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Thanks for trying to help us solve this.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Mary Lou
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> I'm probably reaching here, but wondering
> >> > > >> if, when the jib is reefed in, the roll of
> >> > reefed sail cloth at the
> >> > > luff has
> >> > > >> any effect. It seems that this would be
> >> > negligible if at all. Just
> >> > > asking.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Slim
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> On 9/13/04 10:32 AM, "Bill Effros"
> >> > <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>> How much does your boat normally heel when you
> >> > are sailing?
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> Think of an analog clock face if you don't
> >> > think in degrees. If 12
> >> > > is not
> >> > > >>> heeling at all, where does your mast point
> >> > when you are heeling? 1? 2?
> >> > > >> 11:30?
> >> > > >>> 10:45?
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> Bill Effros
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > >>> From: Mary Lou Troy
> >> > > >>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> >> > > >>> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 10:12 AM
> >> > > >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee
> >> > helm
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> In light air we'll sit on the low side. In
> >> > moderate to heavy winds
> >> > > we're on
> >> > > >>> the high side. Last time we were out playing
> >> > with the helm in light to
> >> > > >>> moderate winds on our problematic port tack, I
> >> > sat on the port side
> >> > > of the
> >> > > >>> cabin top. It seemed to make a bit of
> >> > difference. One of the problems we
> >> > > >>> have in playing with this issue is the
> >> > variability of winds, current and
> >> > > >>> chop on the Chesapeake in short spaces of
> >> > time.
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> Mary Lou
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> At 09:56 AM 9/13/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> >> > > >>>> Mary Lou,
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> Where do you sit when you're sailing?
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> Bill Effros
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > >>>> From: Mary Lou Troy
> >> > > >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> >> > > >>>> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 9:38 AM
> >> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee
> >> > helm
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> Thanks again for everyone's comments. I'd
> >> > appreciate the collective
> >> > > brain
> >> > > >>>> doing a bit more thinking about our
> >> > lopsidedness.
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> We did let our forestay out a notch at the
> >> > beginning of the s
> >> > > >> eason.Keeping
> >> > > >>>> the water tank full helps as well. We now
> >> > have neutral to a slight
> >> > > weather
> >> > > >>>> helm on starboard. That's an improvement but
> >> > we still have mostly
> >> > > lee helm
> >> > > >>>> on port so our main concern is getting her
> >> > balanced. All measurements
> >> > > >>>> indicate that the mast is straight and
> >> > centered.
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> Roger may have a point about trim as Fretless
> >> > tends to list slightly to
> >> > > >>>> starboard in the slip even with the heavy
> >> > Honda 8 on the port side
> >> > > of the
> >> > > >>>> stern (all that weight (80 lbs) back there
> >> > could be a part of the
> >> > > issue as
> >> > > >>>> well). There's usually seven gallons of gas
> >> > under the port bench
> >> > > seat and
> >> > > >>>> three one gallon jugs of water under the
> >> > settee in the cabin as
> >> > > well. The
> >> > > >>>> battery is under the v-berth to port next to
> >> > the water tank which
> >> > > overlaps
> >> > > >>>> the centerline but is slightly to port. I
> >> > suppose that may not be
> >> > > >> enough to
> >> > > >>>> overcome all those beverages in the cooler. I
> >> > think rebalancing is our
> >> > > >> next
> >> > > >>>> step - maybe we'll try moving the spare
> >> > anchor and chain under the
> >> > > settee.
> >> > > >>>> May need to find some lead weights or
> >> > something.
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> Mary Lou
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> At 07:57 AM 9/6/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> >> > > >>>>> Mary Lou,
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> How does Fretless sit on her lines when the
> >> > boat is tied up to the
> >> > > dock?
> >> > > >>>>> With no one on board, the boat should should
> >> > be level on the
> >> > > >> waterline from
> >> > > >>>>> side-to-side and slightly down by the bow,
> >> > maybe about an inch. With a
> >> > > >>>>> couple of adults in the cockpit, the boat
> >> > should sit level on the
> >> > > >> waterline
> >> > > >>>>> in terms of fore/aft trim. Before we can
> >> > say whether or not
> >> > > Fretless is
> >> > > >>>>> truely right wing, you will need to shift
> >> > ballast around until you
> >> > > >> achieve
> >> > > >>>>> the above static trim condition. If the
> >> > boat still wants to turn right
> >> > > >>>>> after these adjustments; then, you
> >> > definitely have a problem. I
> >> > > defer to
> >> > > >>>>> Stan as far as likely causes in this case.
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> Roger Pihlaja
> >> > > >>>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > >>>>> From: "David Walker"
> >> > <david.walker5 at comcast.net>
> >> > > >>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> >> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> > > >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 7:06 PM
> >> > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee
> >> > helm
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>> Mary Lou,
> >> > > >>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>> There are probably many ways to balance a
> >> > Rhodes. At around 15
> >> > > knots I
> >> > > >>>>> find
> >> > > >>>>>> that combination of about 120% genoa and
> >> > the IMF reefed to just
> >> > > >>>> exposing a
> >> > > >>>>>> sliver of the R22 emblem balances the boat
> >> > very well with respect to
> >> > > >> helm
> >> > > >>>>>> and heeling, especially singled handed. I
> >> > was out yesterday in this
> >> > > >>>>>> condition and handily beat a Catalina 22
> >> > under its full sail with 4
> >> > > >> crew.
> >> > > >>>>>> They were having trouble keeping the boat
> >> > on its lines with the sails
> >> > > >>>>>> properly trimmed. In general, I find that
> >> > less sail, properly
> >> > > >> trimmed is
> >> > > >>>>>> better than more sailed trimmed to spill
> >> > wind.
> >> > > >>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>> My Rhodes also seems to sail better with
> >> > more forward sail area than
> >> > > >>>> aft.
> >> > > >>>>>> I most assuredly looks funny that way, but
> >> > the helm is neutral as
> >> > > >> long as
> >> > > >>>>>> the heel is moderate.
> >> > > >>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>> Dave W
> >> > > >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > >>>>>> From: "Steve Alm" <salm at mn.rr.com>
> >> > > >>>>>> To: "Rhodes" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> > > >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 5:14 PM
> >> > > >>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee
> >> > helm
> >> > > >>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>> Mary Lou,
> >> > > >>>>>>> Yes, I said what Stan said I said. I
> >> > raked the mast back by
> >> > > extending
> >> > > >>>>> the
> >> > > >>>>>>> forestay. It was about 2" or more--sorry
> >> > I can't be more
> >> > > >>>> precise. That
> >> > > >>>>>>> brings the Center of Effros 8-) aft and
> >> > yields more weather
> >> > > >>>> helm. But
> >> > > >>>>>>> that alone wasn't enough. I started
> >> > experimenting with the depth
> >> > > of my
> >> > > >>>>>>> centerboard and discovered I could create
> >> > more weather helm by
> >> > > >>>> lessening
> >> > > >>>>>> the
> >> > > >>>>>>> depth of board. I have the diamond board
> >> > and it seems that
> >> > > raising it
> >> > > >>>>>>> brings the center of lateral resistance
> >> > forward, increasing weather
> >> > > >>>>> helm.
> >> > > >>>>>>> The amount of board I use varies with the
> >> > wind speed, boat speed and
> >> > > >>>>> point
> >> > > >>>>>>> of sail. I'm still learning so I can't be
> >> > very specific about that
> >> > > >>>>> other
> >> > > >>>>>>> than to say that the faster the boat
> >> > speed, the less board I
> >> > > use. But
> >> > > >>>>> if
> >> > > >>>>>>> I'm on a close reach, that probably makes
> >> > me lose some of my
> >> > > footing to
> >> > > >>>>>> the
> >> > > >>>>>>> lee but I weigh that against the comfort
> >> > of the helm. I just play
> >> > > >>>>> around
> >> > > >>>>>>> with it until I'm happy. Although I can't
> >> > help you with the
> >> > > republican
> >> > > >>>>>>> tendency of Fretless--that's a
> >> > head-scratcher -- I'd suggest making
> >> > > >>>>>>> adjustments to your board and see if that
> >> > helps. Also, I
> >> > > sometimes get
> >> > > >>>>>> lee
> >> > > >>>>>>> helm in light air which changes over to
> >> > weather helm in the
> >> > > gusts. The
> >> > > >>>>>> more
> >> > > >>>>>>> the boat heels, the greater the weather
> >> > helm. And lastly, I
> >> > > rarely reef
> >> > > >>>>> in
> >> > > >>>>>>> my IMF main unless it's really blowing.
> >> > I'll reef in the 175%
> >> > > genny to
> >> > > >>>>>>> about 90% before I reef the main. That
> >> > happens when the winds are in
> >> > > >>>>> the
> >> > > >>>>>>> upper teens. With winds much higher than
> >> > that, I'm usually at
> >> > > the dock
> >> > > >>>>>>> having a cocktail. 8-) Speaking of
> >> > which, isn't it five o'clock
> >> > > >>>>>> somewhere?
> >> > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>> Hope this helps,
> >> > > >>>>>>> Slim
> >> > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>> On 9/5/04 1:48 PM, "stan"
> >> > <stan at rhodes22.com> wrote:
> >> > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>> a few thoughts if it is really a problem
> >> > Slim raked his mast
> >> > > aft by
> >> > > >>>>>>>> increasing the jib stay about 2" he says.
> >> > the new main with a
> >> > > little
> >> > > >>>>>> more
> >> > > >>>>>>>> sail area might help but that is a big
> >> > investment. If you are
> >> > > handy,
> >> > > >>>>>> putting
> >> > > >>>>>>>> a small extra fin forward of the keel
> >> > might tip the scale. Also, I
> >> > > >>>>> think
> >> > > >>>>>> you
> >> > > >>>>>>>> are on the right track about more weight
> >> > forward. I brought my
> >> > > >>>>> thinking
> >> > > >>>>>> on
> >> > > >>>>>>>> this up to the List on two occasions but
> >> > drew a blanc response each
> >> > > >>>>>> time. I
> >> > > >>>>>>>> think more bow in the water is akin to
> >> > moving the keel (center of
> >> > > >>>>>> effort)
> >> > > >>>>>>>> forward and easy to test by having a lot
> >> > of guests sit up on the bow
> >> > > >>>>> and
> >> > > >>>>>> see
> >> > > >>>>>>>> what happens to the tiller helm. Hiring
> >> > crew to sit on the bow
> >> > > might
> >> > > >>>>> be
> >> > > >>>>>> a
> >> > > >>>>>>>> patentable upgrade - let us know the test
> >> > results.
> >> > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>> stan/gbi
> >> > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > >>>>>>>> From: Mary Lou Troy
> >> > > >>>>>>>> To: stan
> >> > > >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 2:18 PM
> >> > > >>>>>>>> Subject: you are welcome and turning
> >> > right (was Re: book)
> >> > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>> Stan,
> >> > > >>>>>>>> You are very welcome for the book. I do
> >> > not have 1,000 more ;-)
> >> > > >>>> If you
> >> > > >>>>>> do want
> >> > > >>>>>>>> additional copies you'll have to contact
> >> > Stan Grayson about it.
> >> > > He'll
> >> > > >>>>>> sell me
> >> > > >>>>>>>> additional copies for "personal use" at a
> >> > 40% discount which is
> >> > > close
> >> > > >>>>> to
> >> > > >>>>>> what
> >> > > >>>>>>>> you can get from Amazon. I'm pleased with
> >> > the book (and hope you are
> >> > > >>>>>> too).
> >> > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>> As for my cryptic note about Fretless
> >> > being too right - We're not
> >> > > >>>>> going
> >> > > >>>>>>>> anywhere but Fred and I suspect you may
> >> > have sold us a republican
> >> > > >>>>> boat.
> >> > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>> As you know we have had lee helm issues
> >> > over the years. Using your
> >> > > >>>>>> suggestions
> >> > > >>>>>>>> we have been able to produce a nice
> >> > neutral to slight weather helm -
> >> > > >>>>> on
> >> > > >>>>>>>> starboard tack only. On port tack the
> >> > adjustments have only
> >> > > >>>> produced a
> >> > > >>>>>>>> reduction in lee helm. After making sure
> >> > the mast was centered
> >> > > >>>> and the
> >> > > >>>>>> rigging
> >> > > >>>>>>>> moderately snug it finally occurred to us
> >> > that what the boat was
> >> > > >>>> doing
> >> > > >>>>>> was
> >> > > >>>>>>>> always wanting to turn right. Last time
> >> > we had her out we seemed
> >> > > >>>> to be
> >> > > >>>>>> able to
> >> > > >>>>>>>> reduce this tendency slightly and remove
> >> > a bit of the lee helm by
> >> > > >>>>>> putting my
> >> > > >>>>>>>> weight amidships on the port cabin top so
> >> > it is possible that we are
> >> > > >>>>>> still
> >> > > >>>>>>>> dealing with a weight distribution issue.
> >> > We'll continue to
> >> > > >>>>> investigate
> >> > > >>>>>> but
> >> > > >>>>>>>> are wondering if you have any other
> >> > suggestions for what we might
> >> > > >>>>> tinker
> >> > > >>>>>> with
> >> > > >>>>>>>> to produce a more middle of the rhode
> >> > boat.
> >> > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >> > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>> Mary Lou
> >> > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>> At 04:44 PM 8/29/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> >> > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>> MLT -
> >> > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>> How nice of you to send the book - need
> >> > 1,000 more.
> >> > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>> does a little too right mean we are
> >> > loosing you? - hope not.
> >> > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>> stan/gbi
> >> > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > > >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > > >>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > > >>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > > >>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > > >>>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > > >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > > >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > > >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > > >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > > >>>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > > >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > > >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >
> >> > >__________________________________________________
> >> > >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>__________________________________
> >>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
> >>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> >>__________________________________________________
> >>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
_________________________________________________________________
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