[Rhodes22-list] Weber's Analysis of Lee helm
Wally Buck
tnrhodey at hotmail.com
Fri Sep 17 12:05:27 EDT 2004
Bob,
What type/brand of RC boat do you have? I have sailed my friend's Nirvana
and was quite impressed. I am thinking about getting one. I see them new on
ebay all the time for aorunf $150. Any suggestions on brands?
Wally
>From: "Bob Weber" <ruba1811 at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Weber's Analysis of Lee helm
>Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 08:36:01 -0500
>
>Ed, Im just guessing, I know the go fast people spend a lot of time
>fairing - and refairing after a number of seasons and coats of paint to get
>it perfect. It involves several precise templates. I would not think it
>is a molding issue since the influence of the Keel portion of the
>Keel/Centerboard is small enough to not really influence the boat that
>much. A twist in the centerboard would do such thing. That is what
>happened to my RC Sailboat when I tried to cram it into the wrong spot in
>my car. Bob
>
>
>>From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Weber's Analysis of Lee helm
>>Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 08:32:39 -0400
>>
>>
>>Bob:
>> Congratulations! You have come up with a very different analysis of
>>the problem. Could you now suggest a more detailed way to test the
>>fairing
>>of the centerboard and keel?
>> Does this mean that it is only her centerboard and/or keel? Is
>>there a problem in molds for the keel or centerboard? Could it have been
>>caused by damage or curing?
>> By fairing, I assume that you are saying that one or the other or
>>both are not shaped correctly. If we go to sanding to shape the keel or
>>centerboard, won't we be getting into the fiberglass? Can you give a more
>>detailed analysis?
>>
>>Ed K
>>
>>Ed K
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bob Weber
>>Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:13 PM
>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee helm
>>
>>Mary Lou, I am inclined to believe your problem is in the fairing of the
>>centerboard or keel. Does the boat sail right on anchor in a current? In
>>a
>>
>>calm marina put someone onboard, put the rudder up and give the boat a
>>shove. If it steer right that is your problem. You may have to repeat
>>this
>>
>>a few times to ensure accuracy of results. That meathod worked well on
>>fairing the keel on my RC sailboat - of course it was much easier to do
>>repeated times. Another guess is that the piviot for the CB is not
>>horizontal and the board retracts at an angle toward the Port Side. This
>>would not manifest the Right turning tendancy until under sail. Just a
>>guess but the testing should be cheap and not require a haul-out. Good
>>luck
>>
>>Bob Weber
>>
>>
>> >From: Mary Lou Troy <mltroy at verizon.net>
>> >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee helm
>> >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 20:26:11 -0400
>> >
>> >Thanks Steve (and everyone else) for your thoughts on our boat that
>>wants
>> >to go right.
>> >
>> >Here's a summary of the problem and the possibilities offered by the
>>group.
>>
>> >I'm writing this in hopes that if all the ideas are in one place someone
>> >will say "what about.....?" and we'll say "eureka..."
>> >
>> >We've had lee helm issues with Fretless since we got her. The learning
>> >curve learning to sail her and the fluky wind and current conditions on
>>the
>>
>> >Chesapeake have slowed us down diagnosing the problem.
>> >
>> >She has always sailed better on starboard than on port. When we set her
>>up
>> >this spring we lengthened the forestay and took up the backstays. In a
>>nice
>>
>> >breeze with a full main and genoa this gave us a small amount of weather
>> >helm on starboard and less lee helm on port. It also made us really pay
>> >attention to the difference between her behavior on port and starboard.
>> >
>> >Roger mentioned looking at how she sits on her lines and indeed she does
>> >have a slight list to starboard sitting in the slip (in spite of the
>> >outboard, 7 gallons of gas and the battery all stored to port. Bill
>>Effros
>> >said he thought that if the boat was too heavy to port it would turn to
>> >starboard. These two thoughts seem to contradict each other but we'll
>>work
>> >a bit more on her trim.
>> >
>> >Bill & Slim mentioned heel as a contributor to weather helm but I think
>>we
>> >heel about the same on port and starboard. Those fluky winds make it
>>hard
>> >to tell.
>> >
>> >Slim mentioned that in addition to increasing the aft rake of his mast,
>>he
>> >experimented with the centerboard and found he could increase weather
>>helm
>> >by raising the board. We may play some more with this as Stan's original
>> >suggestion to us was to let the board drop a bit more by moving the knot
>>in
>>
>> >the pennant. That doesn't, however, address the fact that she wants to
>>turn
>>
>> >to starboard.
>> >
>> >Steve mentioned sail trim in heavy air and this is an area where we
>>really
>> >don't know as much as we should but we've been playing with the outhaul
>>and
>>
>> >the traveller and have achieved some improvements in the helm but not in
>> >the difference between port and starboard tacks.
>> >
>> >Jim Connolly mentioned a similar port/starboard problem but then
>>mentioned
>> >that he thought he had a spreader problem that might be contributing. As
>> >near as I can tell, our mast is straight and centered. We tune the rig
>>with
>>
>> >a Loos gauge and have measured with a halyard to the chainplates. We'll
>> >take a look at the spreaders though.
>> >
>> >Lastly, Steve and Slim mentioned that maybe something was out of whack
>>with
>>
>> >the keel, the centerboard or the rudder. We'll take a look at those
>> >possibilities. There's nothing immediately visible with the keel or the
>> >rudder. The centerboard appears to drop cleanly and not bind or thump
>>about
>>
>> >significantly but we've never taken a really good look at it. Fretless
>>has
>> >an unusual repair (?) to her centerboard trunk (there is a flat plate
>> >glassed over the forward part of the trunk - between the trunk and the
>> >centerboard cap) that prevents us from removing the centerboard in the
>> >usual fashion).
>> >
>> >Anybody else have any ideas?
>> >
>> >Thanks again for helping us think about this.
>> >
>> >Mary Lou
>> >1991 R22 Fretless
>> >Swan Creek, MD / Ft. Washington, PA
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >At 06:30 AM 9/15/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>> >>Mary Lou
>> >>The board needs to be down when goin to windward or
>> >>your will drift. Losening the headstay and raking the
>> >>mast back but keeping it streight; I don't think will
>> >>solve any problem.
>> >>
>> >>Since this has been a problem since the beginni ng.
>> >>Maybe it something easy. Like the rudder not
>> >>centerred on stern. Maybe rudder not balanced.
>> >>Posible twist in the rudder blade. Proper angle of
>> >>the blade being changed with increase speed. Could be
>> >>also that in heavier wind that you are not flating
>> >>your sails enough. Just thinking out loud.
>> >>Steve
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>--- Mary Lou Troy <mltroy at verizon.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Slim,
>> >> > We've had the problem for as long as we've had the
>> >> > boat. It's been better
>> >> > or worse depending on how well we set the boat up in
>> >> > the Spring but it's
>> >> > only this year that we've realized that the lee helm
>> >> > / port, weather helm
>> >> > starboard issue means that the boat is consistently
>> >> > wanting to turn
>> >> > right. This spring when we tuned the rig we used
>> >> > our spare halyard to
>> >> > measure to the chainplates and verify that the mast
>> >> > is straight. We just
>> >> > eyeballed it in the past.
>> >> >
>> >> > One additional factor - for those who are not yet
>> >> > bored by the whole
>> >> > subject - the boat is faster by nearly a knot on
>> >> > starboard.
>> >> >
>> >> > As far as we know nothing happened to our keel. It
>> >> > seems to drop straight
>> >> > without binding. If we have the boatyard haul it
>> >> > this year maybe we'll see
>> >> > if we can drop the board while it's in the slings
>> >> > and see if we see any
>> >> > problems.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks again.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mary Lou
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > At 03:04 PM 9/14/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>> >> > >Mary Lou,
>> >> > >
>> >> > >You said you checked the mast to see if it's
>> >> > straight. Are you just
>> >> > >eyeballing or have you taken precise measurements?
>> >> > For a quick test, use
>> >> > >your topping lift and bring it down to the
>> >> > chainplates of the upper shrouds
>> >> > >and compare results port and starboard.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Have you had Fretless out of the water lately and
>> >> > inspected the under side?
>> >> > >Maybe something happened your keel.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Slim
>> >> > >
>> >> > >On 9/13/04 5:43 PM, "Mary Lou Troy"
>> >> > <mltroy at verizon.net> wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > At 02:06 PM 9/13/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>> >> > > >> Mary Lou, I think Bill's on to something here.
>> >> > The more the boat heels,
>> >> > > >> the greater
>> >> > > >> the weather helm. So maybe you're heeling more
>> >> > on a starboard tack.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Slim, I don't think we heel more on one tack
>> >> > than the other but we'll check
>> >> > > > it out next time we have a nice steady breeze.
>> >> > We certainly have more
>> >> > > > weather helm when heeled way over but there is
>> >> > still a distinct difference
>> >> > > > between port and starboard. The boat always
>> >> > wants to turn right.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >> Do you have an inclinometer so you can tell
>> >> > exactly how much heel you
>> >> > > >> have? If
>> >> > > >> not, can you jury-rig some kind of little plumb
>> >> > bob--maybe a modified
>> >> > > >> gimbled drink holder would do.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > No inclinometer but we'll pay attention.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >> In lighter air, when your 175% is all the way
>> >> > out, do you still have
>> >> > > the lee
>> >> > > >> helm on port but not starboard?
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Yes although in light air it's more neutral helm
>> >> > on starboard and lee helm
>> >> > > > on port.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Thanks for trying to help us solve this.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Mary Lou
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >> I'm probably reaching here, but wondering
>> >> > > >> if, when the jib is reefed in, the roll of
>> >> > reefed sail cloth at the
>> >> > > luff has
>> >> > > >> any effect. It seems that this would be
>> >> > negligible if at all. Just
>> >> > > asking.
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> Slim
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> On 9/13/04 10:32 AM, "Bill Effros"
>> >> > <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >>> How much does your boat normally heel when you
>> >> > are sailing?
>> >> > > >>>
>> >> > > >>> Think of an analog clock face if you don't
>> >> > think in degrees. If 12
>> >> > > is not
>> >> > > >>> heeling at all, where does your mast point
>> >> > when you are heeling? 1? 2?
>> >> > > >> 11:30?
>> >> > > >>> 10:45?
>> >> > > >>>
>> >> > > >>> Bill Effros
>> >> > > >>>
>> >> > > >>>
>> >> > > >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > > >>> From: Mary Lou Troy
>> >> > > >>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>> >> > > >>> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 10:12 AM
>> >> > > >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee
>> >> > helm
>> >> > > >>>
>> >> > > >>>
>> >> > > >>> In light air we'll sit on the low side. In
>> >> > moderate to heavy winds
>> >> > > we're on
>> >> > > >>> the high side. Last time we were out playing
>> >> > with the helm in light to
>> >> > > >>> moderate winds on our problematic port tack, I
>> >> > sat on the port side
>> >> > > of the
>> >> > > >>> cabin top. It seemed to make a bit of
>> >> > difference. One of the problems we
>> >> > > >>> have in playing with this issue is the
>> >> > variability of winds, current and
>> >> > > >>> chop on the Chesapeake in short spaces of
>> >> > time.
>> >> > > >>>
>> >> > > >>> Mary Lou
>> >> > > >>>
>> >> > > >>> At 09:56 AM 9/13/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>> >> > > >>>> Mary Lou,
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>> Where do you sit when you're sailing?
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>> Bill Effros
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > > >>>> From: Mary Lou Troy
>> >> > > >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>> >> > > >>>> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 9:38 AM
>> >> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee
>> >> > helm
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>> Thanks again for everyone's comments. I'd
>> >> > appreciate the collective
>> >> > > brain
>> >> > > >>>> doing a bit more thinking about our
>> >> > lopsidedness.
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>> We did let our forestay out a notch at the
>> >> > beginning of the s
>> >> > > >> eason.Keeping
>> >> > > >>>> the water tank full helps as well. We now
>> >> > have neutral to a slight
>> >> > > weather
>> >> > > >>>> helm on starboard. That's an improvement but
>> >> > we still have mostly
>> >> > > lee helm
>> >> > > >>>> on port so our main concern is getting her
>> >> > balanced. All measurements
>> >> > > >>>> indicate that the mast is straight and
>> >> > centered.
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>> Roger may have a point about trim as Fretless
>> >> > tends to list slightly to
>> >> > > >>>> starboard in the slip even with the heavy
>> >> > Honda 8 on the port side
>> >> > > of the
>> >> > > >>>> stern (all that weight (80 lbs) back there
>> >> > could be a part of the
>> >> > > issue as
>> >> > > >>>> well). There's usually seven gallons of gas
>> >> > under the port bench
>> >> > > seat and
>> >> > > >>>> three one gallon jugs of water under the
>> >> > settee in the cabin as
>> >> > > well. The
>> >> > > >>>> battery is under the v-berth to port next to
>> >> > the water tank which
>> >> > > overlaps
>> >> > > >>>> the centerline but is slightly to port. I
>> >> > suppose that may not be
>> >> > > >> enough to
>> >> > > >>>> overcome all those beverages in the cooler. I
>> >> > think rebalancing is our
>> >> > > >> next
>> >> > > >>>> step - maybe we'll try moving the spare
>> >> > anchor and chain under the
>> >> > > settee.
>> >> > > >>>> May need to find some lead weights or
>> >> > something.
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>> Mary Lou
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>> At 07:57 AM 9/6/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>> >> > > >>>>> Mary Lou,
>> >> > > >>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>> How does Fretless sit on her lines when the
>> >> > boat is tied up to the
>> >> > > dock?
>> >> > > >>>>> With no one on board, the boat should should
>> >> > be level on the
>> >> > > >> waterline from
>> >> > > >>>>> side-to-side and slightly down by the bow,
>> >> > maybe about an inch. With a
>> >> > > >>>>> couple of adults in the cockpit, the boat
>> >> > should sit level on the
>> >> > > >> waterline
>> >> > > >>>>> in terms of fore/aft trim. Before we can
>> >> > say whether or not
>> >> > > Fretless is
>> >> > > >>>>> truely right wing, you will need to shift
>> >> > ballast around until you
>> >> > > >> achieve
>> >> > > >>>>> the above static trim condition. If the
>> >> > boat still wants to turn right
>> >> > > >>>>> after these adjustments; then, you
>> >> > definitely have a problem. I
>> >> > > defer to
>> >> > > >>>>> Stan as far as likely causes in this case.
>> >> > > >>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>> Roger Pihlaja
>> >> > > >>>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>> >> > > >>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > > >>>>> From: "David Walker"
>> >> > <david.walker5 at comcast.net>
>> >> > > >>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
>> >> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> >> > > >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 7:06 PM
>> >> > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee
>> >> > helm
>> >> > > >>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>> Mary Lou,
>> >> > > >>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>> There are probably many ways to balance a
>> >> > Rhodes. At around 15
>> >> > > knots I
>> >> > > >>>>> find
>> >> > > >>>>>> that combination of about 120% genoa and
>> >> > the IMF reefed to just
>> >> > > >>>> exposing a
>> >> > > >>>>>> sliver of the R22 emblem balances the boat
>> >> > very well with respect to
>> >> > > >> helm
>> >> > > >>>>>> and heeling, especially singled handed. I
>> >> > was out yesterday in this
>> >> > > >>>>>> condition and handily beat a Catalina 22
>> >> > under its full sail with 4
>> >> > > >> crew.
>> >> > > >>>>>> They were having trouble keeping the boat
>> >> > on its lines with the sails
>> >> > > >>>>>> properly trimmed. In general, I find that
>> >> > less sail, properly
>> >> > > >> trimmed is
>> >> > > >>>>>> better than more sailed trimmed to spill
>> >> > wind.
>> >> > > >>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>> My Rhodes also seems to sail better with
>> >> > more forward sail area than
>> >> > > >>>> aft.
>> >> > > >>>>>> I most assuredly looks funny that way, but
>> >> > the helm is neutral as
>> >> > > >> long as
>> >> > > >>>>>> the heel is moderate.
>> >> > > >>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>> Dave W
>> >> > > >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > > >>>>>> From: "Steve Alm" <salm at mn.rr.com>
>> >> > > >>>>>> To: "Rhodes" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> >> > > >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 5:14 PM
>> >> > > >>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee
>> >> > helm
>> >> > > >>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>> Mary Lou,
>> >> > > >>>>>>> Yes, I said what Stan said I said. I
>> >> > raked the mast back by
>> >> > > extending
>> >> > > >>>>> the
>> >> > > >>>>>>> forestay. It was about 2" or more--sorry
>> >> > I can't be more
>> >> > > >>>> precise. That
>> >> > > >>>>>>> brings the Center of Effros 8-) aft and
>> >> > yields more weather
>> >> > > >>>> helm. But
>> >> > > >>>>>>> that alone wasn't enough. I started
>> >> > experimenting with the depth
>> >> > > of my
>> >> > > >>>>>>> centerboard and discovered I could create
>> >> > more weather helm by
>> >> > > >>>> lessening
>> >> > > >>>>>> the
>> >> > > >>>>>>> depth of board. I have the diamond board
>> >> > and it seems that
>> >> > > raising it
>> >> > > >>>>>>> brings the center of lateral resistance
>> >> > forward, increasing weather
>> >> > > >>>>> helm.
>> >> > > >>>>>>> The amount of board I use varies with the
>> >> > wind speed, boat speed and
>> >> > > >>>>> point
>> >> > > >>>>>>> of sail. I'm still learning so I can't be
>> >> > very specific about that
>> >> > > >>>>> other
>> >> > > >>>>>>> than to say that the faster the boat
>> >> > speed, the less board I
>> >> > > use. But
>> >> > > >>>>> if
>> >> > > >>>>>>> I'm on a close reach, that probably makes
>> >> > me lose some of my
>> >> > > footing to
>> >> > > >>>>>> the
>> >> > > >>>>>>> lee but I weigh that against the comfort
>> >> > of the helm. I just play
>> >> > > >>>>> around
>> >> > > >>>>>>> with it until I'm happy. Although I can't
>> >> > help you with the
>> >> > > republican
>> >> > > >>>>>>> tendency of Fretless--that's a
>> >> > head-scratcher -- I'd suggest making
>> >> > > >>>>>>> adjustments to your board and see if that
>> >> > helps. Also, I
>> >> > > sometimes get
>> >> > > >>>>>> lee
>> >> > > >>>>>>> helm in light air which changes over to
>> >> > weather helm in the
>> >> > > gusts. The
>> >> > > >>>>>> more
>> >> > > >>>>>>> the boat heels, the greater the weather
>> >> > helm. And lastly, I
>> >> > > rarely reef
>> >> > > >>>>> in
>> >> > > >>>>>>> my IMF main unless it's really blowing.
>> >> > I'll reef in the 175%
>> >> > > genny to
>> >> > > >>>>>>> about 90% before I reef the main. That
>> >> > happens when the winds are in
>> >> > > >>>>> the
>> >> > > >>>>>>> upper teens. With winds much higher than
>> >> > that, I'm usually at
>> >> > > the dock
>> >> > > >>>>>>> having a cocktail. 8-) Speaking of
>> >> > which, isn't it five o'clock
>> >> > > >>>>>> somewhere?
>> >> > > >>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>> Hope this helps,
>> >> > > >>>>>>> Slim
>> >> > > >>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>> On 9/5/04 1:48 PM, "stan"
>> >> > <stan at rhodes22.com> wrote:
>> >> > > >>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> a few thoughts if it is really a problem
>> >> > Slim raked his mast
>> >> > > aft by
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> increasing the jib stay about 2" he says.
>> >> > the new main with a
>> >> > > little
>> >> > > >>>>>> more
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> sail area might help but that is a big
>> >> > investment. If you are
>> >> > > handy,
>> >> > > >>>>>> putting
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> a small extra fin forward of the keel
>> >> > might tip the scale. Also, I
>> >> > > >>>>> think
>> >> > > >>>>>> you
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> are on the right track about more weight
>> >> > forward. I brought my
>> >> > > >>>>> thinking
>> >> > > >>>>>> on
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> this up to the List on two occasions but
>> >> > drew a blanc response each
>> >> > > >>>>>> time. I
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> think more bow in the water is akin to
>> >> > moving the keel (center of
>> >> > > >>>>>> effort)
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> forward and easy to test by having a lot
>> >> > of guests sit up on the bow
>> >> > > >>>>> and
>> >> > > >>>>>> see
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> what happens to the tiller helm. Hiring
>> >> > crew to sit on the bow
>> >> > > might
>> >> > > >>>>> be
>> >> > > >>>>>> a
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> patentable upgrade - let us know the test
>> >> > results.
>> >> > > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> stan/gbi
>> >> > > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> From: Mary Lou Troy
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> To: stan
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 2:18 PM
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> Subject: you are welcome and turning
>> >> > right (was Re: book)
>> >> > > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> Stan,
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> You are very welcome for the book. I do
>> >> > not have 1,000 more ;-)
>> >> > > >>>> If you
>> >> > > >>>>>> do want
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> additional copies you'll have to contact
>> >> > Stan Grayson about it.
>> >> > > He'll
>> >> > > >>>>>> sell me
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> additional copies for "personal use" at a
>> >> > 40% discount which is
>> >> > > close
>> >> > > >>>>> to
>> >> > > >>>>>> what
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> you can get from Amazon. I'm pleased with
>> >> > the book (and hope you are
>> >> > > >>>>>> too).
>> >> > > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> As for my cryptic note about Fretless
>> >> > being too right - We're not
>> >> > > >>>>> going
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> anywhere but Fred and I suspect you may
>> >> > have sold us a republican
>> >> > > >>>>> boat.
>> >> > > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> As you know we have had lee helm issues
>> >> > over the years. Using your
>> >> > > >>>>>> suggestions
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> we have been able to produce a nice
>> >> > neutral to slight weather helm -
>> >> > > >>>>> on
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> starboard tack only. On port tack the
>> >> > adjustments have only
>> >> > > >>>> produced a
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> reduction in lee helm. After making sure
>> >> > the mast was centered
>> >> > > >>>> and the
>> >> > > >>>>>> rigging
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> moderately snug it finally occurred to us
>> >> > that what the boat was
>> >> > > >>>> doing
>> >> > > >>>>>> was
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> always wanting to turn right. Last time
>> >> > we had her out we seemed
>> >> > > >>>> to be
>> >> > > >>>>>> able to
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> reduce this tendency slightly and remove
>> >> > a bit of the lee helm by
>> >> > > >>>>>> putting my
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> weight amidships on the port cabin top so
>> >> > it is possible that we are
>> >> > > >>>>>> still
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> dealing with a weight distribution issue.
>> >> > We'll continue to
>> >> > > >>>>> investigate
>> >> > > >>>>>> but
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> are wondering if you have any other
>> >> > suggestions for what we might
>> >> > > >>>>> tinker
>> >> > > >>>>>> with
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> to produce a more middle of the rhode
>> >> > boat.
>> >> > > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> Thanks,
>> >> > > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> Mary Lou
>> >> > > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> At 04:44 PM 8/29/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>> >> > > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> MLT -
>> >> > > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> How nice of you to send the book - need
>> >> > 1,000 more.
>> >> > > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> does a little too right mean we are
>> >> > loosing you? - hope not.
>> >> > > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> stan/gbi
>> >> > > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > __________________________________________________
>> >> > > >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >> > > >>>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>>
>> >> > __________________________________________________
>> >> > > >>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >> > > >>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>>
>> >> > __________________________________________________
>> >> > > >>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >> > > >>>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>
>> >> > __________________________________________________
>> >> > > >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > __________________________________________________
>> >> > > >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > __________________________________________________
>> >> > > >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >> > > >>>
>> >> > > >>>
>> >> > > >>>
>> >> > __________________________________________________
>> >> > > >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >> > > >>>
>> >> > __________________________________________________
>> >> > > >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > __________________________________________________
>> >> > > >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > __________________________________________________
>> >> > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >> > >
>> >> > >__________________________________________________
>> >> > >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > __________________________________________________
>> >> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>> >> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>__________________________________
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>> >>__________________________________________________
>> >>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >
>> >
>> >__________________________________________________
>> >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
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>>__________________________________________________
>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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