[Rhodes22-list] Politics: Misleading

Lou Rosenberg lsr3 at MAIL.nyu.edu
Wed Sep 22 11:45:05 EDT 2004 

>  Rik,

  Sorry for delayed reply, as I have been sick.
   I dont know that  but I do know that this would have been a PERFECT 
job for either NATO or the UN or BOTH to get involved and stop 
prostelatizing about world peace and take action in a multi lateral 
way.    Granted this type of action would have needed true leadership 
coming from the White House . In an aside, I happen to like the 
leadership that Gen Colin Powell brought to State dept,  but i dont 
think the administration gave him enough time or power to develop a 
true alliance of other countries to bring to the coalition.
  In any case I believe in the axiom,  " United we stand, divided we fall"

Lou



>
>I gotta ask Lou....... How can you possibly *KNOW* that???
>
>I didn't care what the French thought when we got into this in the 
>first place and I still don't. Maybe you'd like to explain to the 
>list the French's reasons for not wanting to take out Saddam 
>Hussein. Apparently the money they stood to make in the oil business 
>there was far more important to them then the lives hundreds of 
>thousands of Iraqis that Saddam and his sons were doing away with in 
>the most heinous ways possible. I would be willing to wager that 
>there have been less Iraqi lives lost in the year since the invasion 
>than there were in Saddam's prisons and torture chambers the year 
>before the invasion.
>
>And lest we forget, Saddam proved he was perfectly willing to use 
>WMD on his own citizens. Obviously he had WMD then. What do you 
>suppose he did with all that. Maybe we should have been looking in 
>Siria??? I wonder, how tough could it be to ditch a few suitcases 
>full of anthrax, ricin, or mustard gas. It doesn't take much of this 
>stuff to kill or cripple a hell of a lot of people. I also have to 
>wonder, If he decided he needed the stuff back, how long do you 
>suppose it would have taken him to get it???
>
>Some people *NEED* to be done away with. Saddam Hussein was one of 
>those people. I'm just glad that we had the balls to do it in spite 
>of the French, Germans and Russians who would have happily looked 
>the other way while they made their oil money.
>
>Rik
>
>Lou Rosenberg wrote:
>
>>Right ON Bill!
>>  Americans were not so much mislead as many chose to watch the spin 
>>of  the NEWS ( except the obvious NPR and alternative thinking 
>>media  stations) which In my unhumble opinion was also to blame for 
>>helping  MANY citizens be mislead into believing that Saddam had 
>>something to  HIDE besides his previous WAR crimes.   A united 
>>allied invasion of  Iraq would not have lead to this chaos and 
>>dismemberment of the Iraqi  people.    Worse, GOOD MEN and WOMEN of 
>>America are dying for WHAT???
>>  If you want to go vote for BUSH go out and fight the war 
>>YOURSELVES  dont send our best women and men out there to do it.
>>  "thats all I have to say about that"
>>  Lou
>>
>>
>>On Monday, September 20, 2004, at 08:38 PM, Bill Effros wrote:
>>
>>>Michael,
>>>
>>>Everyone did not think Saddam Hussein had WMD.  In fact, nobody 
>>>thought so, and most of the civilized world said they could find 
>>>no  evidence of WMD in Iraq.
>>>
>>>The W. administration was the only one saying Iraq had WMD, and 
>>>the W.  administration claimed to know exactly where they were. 
>>>They said the  United Nations Weapons Inspectors were not doing 
>>>their jobs.  You must  remember this.  You are a bright guy, too.
>>>
>>>The W. administration created their own internal intelligence unit 
>>>which started to manufacture the evidence needed to convince the 
>>>American people that Iraq had WMD.  Contradictory intelligence 
>>>coming  from our own intelligence community was ignored and 
>>>discredited.
>>>
>>>The Ws took the position that it was un-American to challenge 
>>>their  view that Iraq had WMD.  They made our soldiers fight in 
>>>the desert in  full chemical warfare outfits.  They said we had to 
>>>take out Saddam  before he took us out with his nukes.  To quote 
>>>David Kay--our chief  weapons inspector--"We were almost all 
>>>wrong."
>>>
>>>But the rest of the world wasn't.  The French, and the Russians, 
>>>and  the Chinese, everyone in the UN except the British, kept 
>>>trying to  tell us--but we wouldn't listen.  Don't you remember? 
>>>No French > fries?
>>>
>>>You were misled, and so were many other Americans.
>>>
>>>When did you figure out that there were no WMD in Iraq?  The Ws 
>>>still  haven't figured it out--or at least they claim they 
>>>haven't.  Do you  believe them?  They had 1400 people combing 
>>>every trash can in the  country at a cost of literally Billions of 
>>>dollars--Billions with a  B--looking for something that virtually 
>>>everyone in the world knew  they weren't going to find.
>>>
>>>I call that misleading, and I say that's the issue.
>>>
>>>We literally can't afford leadership like this.
>>>
>>>Bill
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Michael Meltzer
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 7:39 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Misleading
>>>
>>>
>>>Oh come one bill,
>>>
>>>"has reported back that there were no Weapons of Mass Destruction.
>>>
>>>I call that misleading, and I believe that's what this election is  about."
>>>
>>>You are more intellect than that, WMD in Iraq are not going to 
>>>decide  the election. Does not your religion teach that "Noah was a
>>>moral man for his time", and in the same way everyone thought the 
>>>jerk  had them(and he did use them), all sides in DC with full
>>>check and balances. Sometime you have to go with what you got and 
>>>make  a call. I also thing you are offbase with people focusing on
>>>the WMD as the deciding issue, it their but way down the list.
>>>
>>>Now I just read that Bill Burkett has some type of ties to the 
>>>"along  with whatever contacts Mr. Burkett might have had with
>>>Democratic operatives.", It look like this guy tried to grid an ax 
>>>before(some about when bush was govern), do not let your zell
>>>overlook that "the dirty tick" department is back, Maybe we need 
>>>"Deep  throat"(maybe I am thing about an enough post :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>MJM
>>>
>>>PS. BTW bill do not freak, just my shot at a little payback :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 2:33 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Misleading
>>>
>>>
>>>Steve,
>>>
>>>I know it will amaze you to learn that just because you say "End 
>>>of  story" that doesn't make it the end of the story.
>>>
>>>On July 13, 2003 Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, when asked 
>>>whether George W. Bush had misled the nation with regard to the
>>>threat of Weapons of Mass Destruction said "End of story."  But it 
>>>really wasn't, was it?
>>>
>>>Every weapons inspector who has tried to find the weapons W. 
>>>warned of  in his State of the Union Speech, and that Secretary of 
>>>State
>>>Colin Powell warned of in his United Nations speech, has reported 
>>>back  that there were no Weapons of Mass Destruction.
>>>
>>>I call that misleading, and I believe that's what this election is  about.
>>>
>>>Even if he wins, I don't think that will be the end of this story.
>>>
>>>Bill
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Steve
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 1:07 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Misleading
>>>
>>>
>>>Bill
>>>Bush received a Honorable Discharge.  End of story.
>>>Last poll I heard was that only 1 in 5 even care about
>>>his guard service and then even its not an issue for
>>>voting on for President.
>>>
>>>As for a Kerry goes, we can debate Bush all day long,
>>>but there is nothing to debate about Kerry; he has no
>>>stance on anything.  His voting record clearing shows
>>>that he cannot be trusted to protect this country.
>>>Again, End of Story.
>>>Steve
>>>
>>>PS - Good attachment Brad.
>>>
>>>
>>>--- brad haslett <flybrad at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Bill,
>>>>
>>>>I respectfully disagree with most if not all of your
>>>>assessments, however, time does not permit me to
>>>>formulate a reasoned response this morning.  I do
>>>>have
>>>>one, trust me.
>>>>
>>>>In the meantime, enjoy the attachment.
>>>>
>>>>Brad Haslett
>>>>"CoraShen"
>>>>
>>>>--- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Brad,
>>>>>
>>>>>The point of the National Guard issue is not
>>>>>Vietnam, any more than the Clinton Impeachment was
>>>>>about sex.  Both hinge on the question of
>>>>>Presidential misleading.  George W. Bush ran for
>>>>>President on this issue, saying repeatedly that he
>>>>>would not mislead the American people.  The extent
>>>>>to which he has misled the American people about
>>>>
>>>>his
>>>>
>>>>>National Guard record is emblematic of the way he
>>>>>has misled the American People about virtually
>>>>>everything else.
>>>>>
>>>>>And it doesn't matter on which side of the
>>>>
>>>>political
>>>>
>>>>>fence you place yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>>Did W. report for duty in Alabama as ordered?  No,
>>>>>he did not.  He wants to mislead you on this
>>>>
>>>>point,
>>>>
>>>>>he can't remember where he was; he doesn't
>>>>
>>>>remember
>>>>
>>>>>what he did; there isn't a single individual he
>>>>
>>>>ever
>>>>
>>>>>spoke to, or reported to while he was there; he
>>>>>knows he got an honorable discharge, so he figures
>>>>>you've got to assume he must have been there.  But
>>>>>he wasn't, and there is ample support for that
>>>>>statement in the records disclosed by the White
>>>>>House, and in follow-up interviews with every
>>>>
>>>>single
>>>>
>>>>>person who was there at the time.
>>>>>
>>>>>But the issue is not military records.  It is
>>>>>misleading.  W. has been misleading since he was a
>>>>>kid, and it just doesn't stop.  He misled us about
>>>>>having no connection to the "Swift Boat Captains
>>>>
>>>>for
>>>>
>>>>>Truth," he misled us about the environment, he
>>>>>misled us about tax cuts, he misled us about the
>>>>>budget, he misled us about fiscal conservatism, he
>>>>>misled us about free trade, he misled us about
>>>>
>>>>going
>>>>
>>>>>after Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan, he misled us
>>>>>about why we had to go to war with Iraq, he misled
>>>>>us about "Mission Accomplished", he misled us
>>>>
>>>>about
>>>>
>>>>>how much the war would cost, he misled us about
>>>>>Halliburton, he misled us about oil, he misled us
>>>>>about Weapons of Mass Destruction, he misled us
>>>>>about Libya, he misled us about France, he misled
>>>>
>>>>us
>>>>
>>>>>about Korea, he misled us about "good science", he
>>>>>misled us about his energy policy, he misled us
>>>>>about Enron, he mislead us about the "Axis of
>>>>
>>>>Evil",
>>>>
>>>>>he misled us about Social Security, he misled us
>>>>>about 9/11, he misled us about health care costs,
>>>>
>>>>he
>>>>
>>>>>misled us about being "a uniter, not a divider,"
>>>>
>>>>he
>>>>
>>>>>misled us about "fuzzy math," he misled us about
>>>>>"revisionist history," he ....
>>>>>
>>>>>The idea that people surrounding W. are
>>>>
>>>>criticizing
>>>>
>>>>>Kerry for flip-flops is the ultimate in
>>>>
>>>>unmitigated
>>>>
>>>>>gall.  W. has taken every side of every issue.  It
>>>>>should be easier to compile a list of things he
>>>>
>>>>did
>>>>
>>>>>not mislead us on.  Except that it isn't.  What
>>>>>didn't he mislead us on?
>>>>>
>>>>>Bill
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: brad haslett
>>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>>>Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 8:33 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: National
>>>>>Guard Was Hudson River Sailing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Bill,
>>>>>
>>>>>Read it!  You have to get up pretty early to beat
>>>>
>>>>me
>>>>
>>>>>to the Times, even though I read it with a "grain
>>>>
>>>>of
>>>>
>>>>>salt" just like I do the Memphis Commercial
>>>>
>>>>Appeal.
>>>>
>>>>>Jason Blair may be gone but his spirit lives on at
>>>>>the
>>>>>"Grey Lady.
>>>>>
>>>>>Here's a link to its real signifigance:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>http://www.creators.com/opinion_show.cfm?columnsName=ses
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Brad Haslett
>>>>>"CoraShen"
>>>>>--- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Nice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Did you see this one today?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>From everything I know they got their facts
>>>>>>
>>>>>>straight:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/20/politics/campaign/20bama.html?hp
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bill
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: brad haslett
>>>>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 10:05 AM
>>>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Hudson River Sailing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hey Bill!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Did you see this article in today's NY Times?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/19/nyregion/19towns.html?hp
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On the next long layover in the NYC area I'm
>>>>>
>>>>going
>>>>
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>try to make it up there.  Might even give them
>>>>>
>>>>>some
>>>>>
>>>>>>money, you know, compassionate conservative I
>>>>>
>>>>am.
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Brad Haslett
>>>>>>"CoraShen"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________
>>>>>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>>>>>Declare Yourself - Register online to vote
>>>>>
>>>>today!
>>>>
>>>>>>http://vote.yahoo.com
>>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________
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>>>>Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We
>>>>finish.
>>>>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > Name: War
>>>
>>>Hero[1].JPG Type: image/pjpeg Size: 241731
>>>
>>>>bytes Desc: War Hero[1].JPG
>>>>Url:
>>>>
>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200409/20/ 
>>>WarHero1.bin
>>>
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-- 
  A vote for  BUSH is voting for an INCOMPETENT man whose goal is to 
DIVIDE this NATION, lock America into a unilateral war against Iraqis 
who just want their country back.   BUSH has NOT supported any 
EDUCATIONAL reforms or allowed any progress in enviornmental issues.
Our children will be paying for the debts created NOW for years to 
come unless we STOP this administration's  drain on our economic 
growth.
  G BUSH has alienated the USA from the world community and has made 
our image less than great in the eyes of may nations we used to call 
allies.
  A vote for KERRY/ EDWARDS is a vote for attempting to change 
PRIORITIES and to bring the country back together , safer, with our 
liberties intact.

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