[Rhodes22-list] Outboards

Thu Sep 23 11:44:35 EDT 2004

To all,

This thread is getting almost as annoying as the the tank in the lazarette.
Its simple,  if two stroke engines are so good, why don't we see them in the
other major power/weight requirement useage - automobiles?   The answer is
they are inefficient and they pollute.

Can we end this?  I'm sick of deleting 30 emails a day without reading them.

David Walker
davidwalkerphotography.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards

> Roger
> 2 cycles have always been totally realiable.  You
> can't say that about 4 cycles. 2 cycles can be worked
> on by anybody with a screwdriver, plier and socket
> set. Again, you can't say that about 4 cycles.
>
> 4 cycles do NOT have any proven history behind them.
> Only a lot of owners taking them to the shop to have
> them worked on.
>
> 2 cycles usually only need a new spark plug every few
> years.  As for the noice, turn the radio up or hoist
> your sails.  As for the gas mileges, I only burn 1 six
> gallon tank a year.  What better mileges do I need.
> Steve
>
>
>
> --- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
>
> > Bill,
> >
> > One defective engine from Nissan  has nothing to do
> > with average emissions
> > from 4-cycle vs. 2-cycle engines.
> >
> > Bill, for every one of your amusing anecdotes about
> > people having troubles
> > with their 4-cycle outboards, I can cite you four
> > other stories about
> > 4-cycle owners that are happy with 2X better fuel
> > economy, less noise, no
> > smoke, not having to mix oil with the gas, etc.  You
> > know, I've talked with
> > mechanics at local marinas, did a search on the
> > internet, looked in Consumer
> > Reports, looked in the Consumer Product Recall
> > archieves.  I can't find any
> > hard evidence about the problems you keep harping
> > about regarding 4-cycle
> > reliability.  In my FAQ which I sent to you, I cited
> > the emission &
> > toxicology studies that led up to the current
> > emssion regulations.  You
> > rejected it all as "glurge".  If the 4-cycle
> > outboards were really having
> > the sorts of problems you claim on a widespread
> > basis; then, shouldn't there
> > be
> > some hard data somewhere?  Well, now its your turn
> > sir, I challenge you
> > to cite us some hard data on this issue - a service
> > bulletin from one of the
> > outboard manufacturers, a consumer product safety
> > commision report, a
> > reputable survey - something other than your own
> > experience.
> >
> > By the way, even if your claims about having to mix
> > additives with 4-cycle
> > fuel were true, which I dispute, the 4-cycle engine
> > emission data shows it
> > emits about 1/10 the unburned hydrocarbons of a
> > 2-cycle engine.  So, even if
> > these additives were required in 4-cycle fuel, the
> > 4-cycle engine would
> > still do a much better job of incinerating them than
> > 2-cycle engines do.
> >
> > Bill, it's time to put up or shut up.  I say you
> > don't know what you are
> > talking about.  Show us the data to prove that you
> > do.  Until you can
> > show us this data, I'm going to bring this issue up
> > every time you say
> > anything about 2-cycle vs. 4-cycle engines.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 6:34 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> >
> >
> > > That's "abated breath" I hit the send key when
> > aiming for the save key.
> > >
> > > Keep us posted on the Nissan.  I don't know if
> > anyone else has a Nissan
> > 4-stroke.  I was considering them, also.  Is it
> > quiet?
> > >
> > > Roger, not to go round on this again, but my
> > consistent point has been
> > that Ron with his supposedly environmentally sound
> > engine has just dumped
> > more oil into the environment in 2 hours than I have
> > dumped into the
> > environment with my 2 stroke in 2 years.  The dealer
> > reports this was not an
> > isolated case.  Many people on the list with
> > 4-strokes are dumping oil into
> > their gas tanks to ensure proper lubrication of
> > their engines.
> > >
> > > As everyone knows, I can go off on a right-wing
> > screed on this issue, but
> > I am trying to restrain myself.
> > >
> > > I know everyone is trying to do the right thing.
> > Sometimes that impulse
> > leads to bad policy, bad laws, and bad decisions.
> > What does Ron do now?
> > They're not going to give him a new engine.  And
> > maybe a new one would be
> > just as bad as the one he's got.
> > >
> > > What do I do now?  I was thinking of getting a
> > 4-stroke, too, but I wanted
> > to see what happened with Ron.
> > >
> > > I WAS waiting with 'bated breath.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Bill Effros
> > > To: Ronald Lipton ; The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 6:21 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > >
> > >
> > > I believe it's a contraction for "abated breth"
> > 'bated breath.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Ronald Lipton
> > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 6:09 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For those of you waiting with baited beath (does
> > this means worms
> > > hanging out of your mouth?).  I ended up buying
> > the Nissan 6 four
> > > cycle.   I could not find a reasonably priced used
> > 2 cycle long shaft.
> > > The Monroe Harbormaster was very accomodating
> > ferrying me out
> > > to the boat and helping me remove the old engine
> > and install the new
> > > one.
> > >
> > > The story does not yet have a happy ending ... the
> > new Nissan
> > > is burning oil, having emptied it's resovoir after
> > about 2 hours of
> > > running and with a thick cloud of smoke on
> > startup.  I was told by
> > > the dealer that some of the engines "do that"
> > until they are broken
> > > in - but I am sceptical.  Hopefully I can keep it
> > running well
> > > enough to allow me to finish the season before it
> > is serviced, but
> > > I still have the outboard blues.
> > >
> > > for Stan:
> > >
> > > Go IU, beat Purdue. ( It might happen someday)
> > >
> > > Ron
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > __________________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
>
>
>
>
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