[Rhodes22-list] Outboards

Thu Sep 23 12:48:02 EDT 2004

Steve,

Let's see, I've been using my Honda 8 from the spring of 1996 to the present
& my Honda 9.9 from the spring of 2000 to the present.  That's just
finishing 9 seasons with one engine & 4 seasons with the other.  I had to
replace a water pump impellor on the Honda 9.9 when Gary ran it dry & the
dealer had to rebuild the lower unit when Gary ran it backwards into an
underwater concrete launch ramp.  I replaced the water pump impellor myself.
Other than that, these two engines have never been touched.  They both start
on the 1st or 2nd pull, don't leak oil, don't smoke, & in general have been
wonderful machines to live with.  They just work.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards

> Roger
> Base on the below; I would say the same about you.
> When you go out on the water and your motor tear up
> and even you can't fix it.  Then preach the below.
> Steve
>
>
> --- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
>
> > Bill,
> >
> > My old Evinrude 6 hp 2-cycle outbaord got about 6
> > nm/gal at 5 knots.  My
> > present Honda 8 hp 4-cycle outboard gets about 10
> > nm/gal at 5 knots.  Same
> > boat, same lake, same conditions, just about 2X
> > better mileage.  There's
> > real world data, Bill.  What sort of mileage do you
> > get?
> >
> > The facts I cited in my FAQ were published in peer
> > reviewed scientific
> > journals & government agency reports by qualified
> > researchers.  I expect you
> > to adhere to the same standard of evidence.  The
> > list will be waiting with
> > baited breath for you to back up your claims with
> > good science.  If it turns
> > out that you can; then, I'll be the 1st to
> > apologise.  Until then, you have
> > nothing but a bunch of unsubstantiated claims & some
> > charming anecdotal
> > stories.
> >
> > The trouble with the internet is that anyone can set
> > themselves up as an
> > "expert" and claim anything with no substance behind
> > it.  In this case, you
> > are spreading false information regarding 4-cycle
> > reliability & the 2-cycle
> > vs. 4-cycle emissions issues.  On this issue, you
> > just simply WRONG!
> >
> > You can wait until after the election or until the
> > cows come home.  I'm
> > betting you won't be able to back up your claims
> > sir.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 9:20 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> >
> >
> > > Roger,
> > >
> > > I don't have time for this right now, but I will
> > get back to it after the
> > election.  If I forget, I'm counting on you to bring
> > it up again the next
> > time I mention 2 cycle engines.
> > >
> > > Like many things in this world, this issue is not
> > what it seems.
> > Legislation was passed that benefits large
> > corporations at the expense of
> > everyone else without providing substantial benefits
> > to the environment that
> > couldn't be achieved at far lower cost.
> > >
> > > And yes, I can back that up with "good science".
> > >
> > > I'm with Ed on this one.  Many of the "facts" you
> > have cited in the past
> > come from research institutes funded by engine
> > manufacturers.  The tested
> > engines cannot be duplicated in the real world.
> > Your engine does not go
> > twice as far on a gallon of gas than mine.
> > >
> > > I'll spend more time on this when I have it.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Roger Pihlaja
> > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 10:16 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > One defective engine from Nissan  has nothing to
> > do with average emissions
> > > from 4-cycle vs. 2-cycle engines.
> > >
> > > Bill, for every one of your amusing anecdotes
> > about people having troubles
> > > with their 4-cycle outboards, I can cite you four
> > other stories about
> > > 4-cycle owners that are happy with 2X better fuel
> > economy, less noise, no
> > > smoke, not having to mix oil with the gas, etc.
> > You know, I've talked
> > with
> > > mechanics at local marinas, did a search on the
> > internet, looked in
> > Consumer
> > > Reports, looked in the Consumer Product Recall
> > archieves.  I can't find
> > any
> > > hard evidence about the problems you keep harping
> > about regarding 4-cycle
> > > reliability.  In my FAQ which I sent to you, I
> > cited the emission &
> > > toxicology studies that led up to the current
> > emssion regulations.  You
> > > rejected it all as "glurge".  If the 4-cycle
> > outboards were really having
> > > the sorts of problems you claim on a widespread
> > basis; then, shouldn't
> > there
> > > be
> > > some hard data somewhere?  Well, now its your turn
> > sir, I challenge you
> > > to cite us some hard data on this issue - a
> > service bulletin from one of
> > the
> > > outboard manufacturers, a consumer product safety
> > commision report, a
> > > reputable survey - something other than your own
> > experience.
> > >
> > > By the way, even if your claims about having to
> > mix additives with 4-cycle
> > > fuel were true, which I dispute, the 4-cycle
> > engine emission data shows it
> > > emits about 1/10 the unburned hydrocarbons of a
> > 2-cycle engine.  So, even
> > if
> > > these additives were required in 4-cycle fuel, the
> > 4-cycle engine would
> > > still do a much better job of incinerating them
> > than 2-cycle engines do.
> > >
> > > Bill, it's time to put up or shut up.  I say you
> > don't know what you are
> > > talking about.  Show us the data to prove that you
> > do.  Until you can
> > > show us this data, I'm going to bring this issue
> > up every time you say
> > > anything about 2-cycle vs. 4-cycle engines.
> > >
> > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > S/V dynamic Equilibrium
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 6:34 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > >
> > >
> > > > That's "abated breath" I hit the send key when
> > aiming for the save key.
> > > >
> > > > Keep us posted on the Nissan.  I don't know if
> > anyone else has a Nissan
> > > 4-stroke.  I was considering them, also.  Is it
> > quiet?
> > > >
> > > > Roger, not to go round on this again, but my
> > consistent point has been
> > > that Ron with his supposedly environmentally sound
> > engine has just dumped
> > > more oil into the environment in 2 hours than I
> > have dumped into the
> > > environment with my 2 stroke in 2 years.  The
> > dealer reports this was not
> > an
> > > isolated case.  Many people on the list with
> > 4-strokes are dumping oil
> > into
> > > their gas tanks to ensure proper lubrication of
> > their engines.
> > > >
> > > > As everyone knows, I can go off on a right-wing
> > screed on this issue,
> > but
> > > I am trying to restrain myself.
> > > >
> > > > I know everyone is trying to do the right thing.
> >  Sometimes that impulse
> > > leads to bad policy, bad laws, and bad decisions.
> > What does Ron do now?
> > > They're not going to give him a new engine.  And
> > maybe a new one would be
> > > just as bad as the one he's got.
> > > >
> > > > What do I do now?  I was thinking of getting a
> > 4-stroke, too, but I
> > wanted
> > > to see what happened with Ron.
> > > >
> > > > I WAS waiting with 'bated breath.
> > > >
> > > > Bill Effros
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Bill Effros
> > > > To: Ronald Lipton ; The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 6:21 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I believe it's a contraction for "abated breth"
> > 'bated breath.
> > > >
> > > > Bill Effros
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Ronald Lipton
> > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 6:09 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > For those of you waiting with baited beath (does
> > this means worms
> > > > hanging out of your mouth?).  I ended up buying
> > the Nissan 6 four
> > > > cycle.   I could not find a reasonably priced
> > used 2 cycle long shaft.
> > > > The Monroe Harbormaster was very accomodating
> > ferrying me out
> > > > to the boat and helping me remove the old engine
> > and install the new
> > > > one.
> > > >
> > > > The story does not yet have a happy ending ...
> > the new Nissan
> > > > is burning oil, having emptied it's resovoir
> > after about 2 hours of
> > > > running and with a thick cloud of smoke on
> > startup.  I was told by
> > > > the dealer that some of the engines "do that"
> > until they are broken
> > > > in - but I am sceptical.  Hopefully I can keep
> > it running well
> > > > enough to allow me to finish the season before
> > it is serviced, but
> > > > I still have the outboard blues.
> > > >
> > > > for Stan:
> > > >
> > > > Go IU, beat Purdue. ( It might happen someday)
> > > >
> > > > Ron
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
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>
>
>
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