[Rhodes22-list] Outboards

Thu Sep 23 18:12:41 EDT 2004

Steve,

Well let's see, you say my engine is dead with no hope for repair.  There's
no wind, so I'm in no danger.  If I'm being pushed somewhere I don't like by
a current, I think I'll drop anchor.  If the water's too deep to anchor, I
think I'll slow my drift with my sea anchor.  Did my ship's VHF + handheld
VHF radios + cell phone also quit working?  If not, I guess I'll call for
help & crack a beer while I wait for it to arrive.  Am I in a busy channel?
Well, then I won't have very long to wait.  Assuming no one is around & I
can't call for help either, I guess I'll just crack a beer & wait for the
wind to pick up.  I have food, water, beer, a place to sleep, a place to
cook, a stereo to listen to tunes, usually books to read, & a porta-potti on
board.  What else do I need?   It wouldn't be the 1st time I've altered my
sailing schedule to suit the circumstances.  It also wouldn't be the 1st
time I've sailed up to a dock.  What's the big deal?

You shouldn't get to depending upon your engine too much.  Remember, the
Rhodes 22 can be sailed in much worse conditions than it can be motored in.
This is advise from a guy who upgraded his outboard from a long shaft to an
extra long shaft when I bought the Honda 8 just to get a little more heavy
weather motoring capability.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards

> Well, Roger, my 1982 Rhodes came with a 1982 Honda 2
> cycle.  Its never been in the shop, uses maybe a tank
> of gas a year and if it ever does mess up (on the
> water or at dock)I can fix anything myself.
>
> Now say your stop working on the water.  Based on the
> below, it due to malfunction.  Say there is no wind.
> Can't raise sail.  Nobody around but say John Kerry
> and he won't help you:-)  How are you going to get
> back to the dock?  You have plenty of tool but what od
> you do.  All those wires running all over the place,
> better not mess them up; it won't start forsure then.
> Puzzleing is it not!
> Steve
>
> --- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
>
> > Steve,
> >
> > Let's see, I've been using my Honda 8 from the
> > spring of 1996 to the present
> > & my Honda 9.9 from the spring of 2000 to the
> > present.  That's just
> > finishing 9 seasons with one engine & 4 seasons with
> > the other.  I had to
> > replace a water pump impellor on the Honda 9.9 when
> > Gary ran it dry & the
> > dealer had to rebuild the lower unit when Gary ran
> > it backwards into an
> > underwater concrete launch ramp.  I replaced the
> > water pump impellor myself.
> > Other than that, these two engines have never been
> > touched.  They both start
> > on the 1st or 2nd pull, don't leak oil, don't smoke,
> > & in general have been
> > wonderful machines to live with.  They just work.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:14 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> >
> >
> > > Roger
> > > Base on the below; I would say the same about you.
> > > When you go out on the water and your motor tear
> > up
> > > and even you can't fix it.  Then preach the below.
> > > Steve
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Bill,
> > > >
> > > > My old Evinrude 6 hp 2-cycle outbaord got about
> > 6
> > > > nm/gal at 5 knots.  My
> > > > present Honda 8 hp 4-cycle outboard gets about
> > 10
> > > > nm/gal at 5 knots.  Same
> > > > boat, same lake, same conditions, just about 2X
> > > > better mileage.  There's
> > > > real world data, Bill.  What sort of mileage do
> > you
> > > > get?
> > > >
> > > > The facts I cited in my FAQ were published in
> > peer
> > > > reviewed scientific
> > > > journals & government agency reports by
> > qualified
> > > > researchers.  I expect you
> > > > to adhere to the same standard of evidence.  The
> > > > list will be waiting with
> > > > baited breath for you to back up your claims
> > with
> > > > good science.  If it turns
> > > > out that you can; then, I'll be the 1st to
> > > > apologise.  Until then, you have
> > > > nothing but a bunch of unsubstantiated claims &
> > some
> > > > charming anecdotal
> > > > stories.
> > > >
> > > > The trouble with the internet is that anyone can
> > set
> > > > themselves up as an
> > > > "expert" and claim anything with no substance
> > behind
> > > > it.  In this case, you
> > > > are spreading false information regarding
> > 4-cycle
> > > > reliability & the 2-cycle
> > > > vs. 4-cycle emissions issues.  On this issue,
> > you
> > > > just simply WRONG!
> > > >
> > > > You can wait until after the election or until
> > the
> > > > cows come home.  I'm
> > > > betting you won't be able to back up your claims
> > > > sir.
> > > >
> > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 9:20 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Roger,
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't have time for this right now, but I
> > will
> > > > get back to it after the
> > > > election.  If I forget, I'm counting on you to
> > bring
> > > > it up again the next
> > > > time I mention 2 cycle engines.
> > > > >
> > > > > Like many things in this world, this issue is
> > not
> > > > what it seems.
> > > > Legislation was passed that benefits large
> > > > corporations at the expense of
> > > > everyone else without providing substantial
> > benefits
> > > > to the environment that
> > > > couldn't be achieved at far lower cost.
> > > > >
> > > > > And yes, I can back that up with "good
> > science".
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm with Ed on this one.  Many of the "facts"
> > you
> > > > have cited in the past
> > > > come from research institutes funded by engine
> > > > manufacturers.  The tested
> > > > engines cannot be duplicated in the real world.
> > > > Your engine does not go
> > > > twice as far on a gallon of gas than mine.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll spend more time on this when I have it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 10:16 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill,
> > > > >
> > > > > One defective engine from Nissan  has nothing
> > to
> > > > do with average emissions
> > > > > from 4-cycle vs. 2-cycle engines.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill, for every one of your amusing anecdotes
> > > > about people having troubles
> > > > > with their 4-cycle outboards, I can cite you
> > four
> > > > other stories about
> > > > > 4-cycle owners that are happy with 2X better
> > fuel
> > > > economy, less noise, no
> > > > > smoke, not having to mix oil with the gas,
> > etc.
> > > > You know, I've talked
> > > > with
> > > > > mechanics at local marinas, did a search on
> > the
> > > > internet, looked in
> > > > Consumer
> > > > > Reports, looked in the Consumer Product Recall
> > > > archieves.  I can't find
> > > > any
> > > > > hard evidence about the problems you keep
> > harping
> > > > about regarding 4-cycle
> > > > > reliability.  In my FAQ which I sent to you, I
> > > > cited the emission &
> > > > > toxicology studies that led up to the current
> > > > emssion regulations.  You
> > > > > rejected it all as "glurge".  If the 4-cycle
> > > > outboards were really having
> > > > > the sorts of problems you claim on a
> > widespread
> > > > basis; then, shouldn't
> > > > there
> > > > > be
> > > > > some hard data somewhere?  Well, now its your
> > turn
> > > > sir, I challenge you
> > > > > to cite us some hard data on this issue - a
> > > > service bulletin from one of
> > > > the
> > > > > outboard manufacturers, a consumer product
> > safety
> > > > commision report, a
> > > > > reputable survey - something other than your
> > own
> > > > experience.
> > > > >
> > > > > By the way, even if your claims about having
> > to
> > > > mix additives with 4-cycle
> > > > > fuel were true, which I dispute, the 4-cycle
> > > > engine emission data shows it
> > > > > emits about 1/10 the unburned hydrocarbons of
> > a
> > > > 2-cycle engine.  So, even
> > > > if
> > > > > these additives were required in 4-cycle fuel,
> > the
> > > > 4-cycle engine would
> > > > > still do a much better job of incinerating
> > them
> > > > than 2-cycle engines do.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill, it's time to put up or shut up.  I say
> > you
> > > > don't know what you are
> > > > > talking about.  Show us the data to prove that
> > you
> > > > do.  Until you can
> > > > > show us this data, I'm going to bring this
> > issue
> > > > up every time you say
> > > > > anything about 2-cycle vs. 4-cycle engines.
> > > > >
> > > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > S/V dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 6:34 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > That's "abated breath" I hit the send key
> > when
> > > > aiming for the save key.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Keep us posted on the Nissan.  I don't know
> > if
> > > > anyone else has a Nissan
> > > > > 4-stroke.  I was considering them, also.  Is
> > it
> > > > quiet?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Roger, not to go round on this again, but my
> > > > consistent point has been
> > > > > that Ron with his supposedly environmentally
> > sound
> > > > engine has just dumped
> > > > > more oil into the environment in 2 hours than
> > I
> > > > have dumped into the
> > > > > environment with my 2 stroke in 2 years.  The
> > > > dealer reports this was not
> > > > an
> > > > > isolated case.  Many people on the list with
> > > > 4-strokes are dumping oil
> > > > into
> > > > > their gas tanks to ensure proper lubrication
> > of
> > > > their engines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As everyone knows, I can go off on a
> > right-wing
> > > > screed on this issue,
> > > > but
> > > > > I am trying to restrain myself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know everyone is trying to do the right
> > thing.
> > > >  Sometimes that impulse
> > > > > leads to bad policy, bad laws, and bad
> > decisions.
> > > > What does Ron do now?
> > > > > They're not going to give him a new engine.
> > And
> > > > maybe a new one would be
> > > > > just as bad as the one he's got.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What do I do now?  I was thinking of getting
> > a
> > > > 4-stroke, too, but I
> > > > wanted
> > > > > to see what happened with Ron.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I WAS waiting with 'bated breath.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill Effros
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Bill Effros
> > > > > > To: Ronald Lipton ; The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 6:21 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I believe it's a contraction for "abated
> > breth"
> > > > 'bated breath.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill Effros
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Ronald Lipton
> > > > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 6:09 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For those of you waiting with baited beath
> > (does
> > > > this means worms
> > > > > > hanging out of your mouth?).  I ended up
> > buying
> > > > the Nissan 6 four
> > > > > > cycle.   I could not find a reasonably
> > priced
> > > > used 2 cycle long shaft.
> > > > > > The Monroe Harbormaster was very
> > accomodating
> > > > ferrying me out
> > > > > > to the boat and helping me remove the old
> > engine
> > > > and install the new
> > > > > > one.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The story does not yet have a happy ending
> > ...
> > > > the new Nissan
> > > > > > is burning oil, having emptied it's resovoir
> > > > after about 2 hours of
> > > > > > running and with a thick cloud of smoke on
> > > > startup.  I was told by
> > > > > > the dealer that some of the engines "do
> > that"
> > > > until they are broken
> > > > > > in - but I am sceptical.  Hopefully I can
> > keep
> > > > it running well
> > > > > > enough to allow me to finish the season
> > before
> > > > it is serviced, but
> > > > > > I still have the outboard blues.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > for Stan:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Go IU, beat Purdue. ( It might happen
> > someday)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ron
> > > > > >
> > > >
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