[Rhodes22-list] Outboards

[Steve]

That away, Roger.  Seamenship, now that something a
sailor can depend on when the skills have been
aquired.  And I know you have them.  Excellent!
Steve

PS - I never leave the dock with beer also:-)

  
--- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:

> Steve,
> 
> Well let's see, you say my engine is dead with no
> hope for repair.  There's
> no wind, so I'm in no danger.  If I'm being pushed
> somewhere I don't like by
> a current, I think I'll drop anchor.  If the water's
> too deep to anchor, I
> think I'll slow my drift with my sea anchor.  Did my
> ship's VHF + handheld
> VHF radios + cell phone also quit working?  If not,
> I guess I'll call for
> help & crack a beer while I wait for it to arrive. 
> Am I in a busy channel?
> Well, then I won't have very long to wait.  Assuming
> no one is around & I
> can't call for help either, I guess I'll just crack
> a beer & wait for the
> wind to pick up.  I have food, water, beer, a place
> to sleep, a place to
> cook, a stereo to listen to tunes, usually books to
> read, & a porta-potti on
> board.  What else do I need?   It wouldn't be the
> 1st time I've altered my
> sailing schedule to suit the circumstances.  It also
> wouldn't be the 1st
> time I've sailed up to a dock.  What's the big deal?
> 
> You shouldn't get to depending upon your engine too
> much.  Remember, the
> Rhodes 22 can be sailed in much worse conditions
> than it can be motored in.
> This is advise from a guy who upgraded his outboard
> from a long shaft to an
> extra long shaft when I bought the Honda 8 just to
> get a little more heavy
> weather motoring capability.
> 
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> 
> 
> > Well, Roger, my 1982 Rhodes came with a 1982 Honda
> 2
> > cycle.  Its never been in the shop, uses maybe a
> tank
> > of gas a year and if it ever does mess up (on the
> > water or at dock)I can fix anything myself.
> >
> > Now say your stop working on the water.  Based on
> the
> > below, it due to malfunction.  Say there is no
> wind.
> > Can't raise sail.  Nobody around but say John
> Kerry
> > and he won't help you:-)  How are you going to get
> > back to the dock?  You have plenty of tool but
> what od
> > you do.  All those wires running all over the
> place,
> > better not mess them up; it won't start forsure
> then.
> > Puzzleing is it not!
> > Steve
> >
> > --- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Steve,
> > >
> > > Let's see, I've been using my Honda 8 from the
> > > spring of 1996 to the present
> > > & my Honda 9.9 from the spring of 2000 to the
> > > present.  That's just
> > > finishing 9 seasons with one engine & 4 seasons
> with
> > > the other.  I had to
> > > replace a water pump impellor on the Honda 9.9
> when
> > > Gary ran it dry & the
> > > dealer had to rebuild the lower unit when Gary
> ran
> > > it backwards into an
> > > underwater concrete launch ramp.  I replaced the
> > > water pump impellor myself.
> > > Other than that, these two engines have never
> been
> > > touched.  They both start
> > > on the 1st or 2nd pull, don't leak oil, don't
> smoke,
> > > & in general have been
> > > wonderful machines to live with.  They just
> work.
> > >
> > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:14 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > >
> > >
> > > > Roger
> > > > Base on the below; I would say the same about
> you.
> > > > When you go out on the water and your motor
> tear
> > > up
> > > > and even you can't fix it.  Then preach the
> below.
> > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Bill,
> > > > >
> > > > > My old Evinrude 6 hp 2-cycle outbaord got
> about
> > > 6
> > > > > nm/gal at 5 knots.  My
> > > > > present Honda 8 hp 4-cycle outboard gets
> about
> > > 10
> > > > > nm/gal at 5 knots.  Same
> > > > > boat, same lake, same conditions, just about
> 2X
> > > > > better mileage.  There's
> > > > > real world data, Bill.  What sort of mileage
> do
> > > you
> > > > > get?
> > > > >
> > > > > The facts I cited in my FAQ were published
> in
> > > peer
> > > > > reviewed scientific
> > > > > journals & government agency reports by
> > > qualified
> > > > > researchers.  I expect you
> > > > > to adhere to the same standard of evidence. 
> The
> > > > > list will be waiting with
> > > > > baited breath for you to back up your claims
> > > with
> > > > > good science.  If it turns
> > > > > out that you can; then, I'll be the 1st to
> > > > > apologise.  Until then, you have
> > > > > nothing but a bunch of unsubstantiated
> claims &
> > > some
> > > > > charming anecdotal
> > > > > stories.
> > > > >
> > > > > The trouble with the internet is that anyone
> can
> > > set
> > > > > themselves up as an
> > > > > "expert" and claim anything with no
> substance
> > > behind
> > > > > it.  In this case, you
> > > > > are spreading false information regarding
> > > 4-cycle
> > > > > reliability & the 2-cycle
> > > > > vs. 4-cycle emissions issues.  On this
> issue,
> > > you
> > > > > just simply WRONG!
> > > > >
> > > > > You can wait until after the election or
> until
> > > the
> > > > > cows come home.  I'm
> > > > > betting you won't be able to back up your
> claims
> > > > > sir.
> > > > >
> > > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 9:20 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Roger,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't have time for this right now, but
> I
> > > will
> > > > > get back to it after the
> > > > > election.  If I forget, I'm counting on you
> to
> > > bring
> > > > > it up again the next
> > > > > time I mention 2 cycle engines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Like many things in this world, this issue
> is
> > > not
> > > > > what it seems.
> > > > > Legislation was passed that benefits large
> > > > > corporations at the expense of
> > > > > everyone else without providing substantial
> > > benefits
> > > > > to the environment that
> > > > > couldn't be achieved at far lower cost.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And yes, I can back that up with "good
> > > science".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm with Ed on this one.  Many of the
> "facts"
> > > you
> > > > > have cited in the past
> > > > > come from research institutes funded by
> engine
> > > > > manufacturers.  The tested
> > > > > engines cannot be duplicated in the real
> world.
> > > > > Your engine does not go
> > > > > twice as far on a gallon of gas than mine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'll spend more time on this when I have
> it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 10:16
> PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One defective engine from Nissan  has
> nothing
> > > to
> > > > > do with average emissions
> > > > > > from 4-cycle vs. 2-cycle engines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill, for every one of your amusing
> anecdotes
> > > > > about people having troubles
> > > > > > with their 4-cycle outboards, I can cite
> you
> > > four
> > > > > other stories about
> > > > > > 4-cycle owners that are happy with 2X
> better
> > > fuel
> > > > > economy, less noise, no
> > > > > > smoke, not having to mix oil with the gas,
> > > etc.
> > > > > You know, I've talked
> > > > > with
> > > > > > mechanics at local marinas, did a search
> on
> > > the
> > > > > internet, looked in
> > > > > Consumer
> > > > > > Reports, looked in the Consumer Product
> Recall
> > > > > archieves.  I can't find
> > > > > any
> > > > > > hard evidence about the problems you keep
> > > harping
> > > > > about regarding 4-cycle
> > > > > > reliability.  In my FAQ which I sent to
> you, I
> > > > > cited the emission &
> > > > > > toxicology studies that led up to the
> current
> > > > > emssion regulations.  You
> > > > > > rejected it all as "glurge".  If the
> 4-cycle
> > > > > outboards were really having
> > > > > > the sorts of problems you claim on a
> > > widespread
> > > > > basis; then, shouldn't
> > > > > there
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > some hard data somewhere?  Well, now its
> your
> > > turn
> > > > > sir, I challenge you
> > > > > > to cite us some hard data on this issue -
> a
> > > > > service bulletin from one of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > outboard manufacturers, a consumer product
> > > safety
> > > > > commision report, a
> > > > > > reputable survey - something other than
> your
> > > own
> > > > > experience.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > By the way, even if your claims about
> having
> > > to
> > > > > mix additives with 4-cycle
> > > > > > fuel were true, which I dispute, the
> 4-cycle
> > > > > engine emission data shows it
> > > > > > emits about 1/10 the unburned hydrocarbons
> of
> > > a
> > > > > 2-cycle engine.  So, even
> > > > > if
> > > > > > these additives were required in 4-cycle
> fuel,
> > > the
> > > > > 4-cycle engine would
> > > > > > still do a much better job of incinerating
> > > them
> > > > > than 2-cycle engines do.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill, it's time to put up or shut up.  I
> say
> > > you
> > > > > don't know what you are
> > > > > > talking about.  Show us the data to prove
> that
> > > you
> > > > > do.  Until you can
> > > > > > show us this data, I'm going to bring this
> > > issue
> > > > > up every time you say
> > > > > > anything about 2-cycle vs. 4-cycle
> engines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > > S/V dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> > > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 6:34
> PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > That's "abated breath" I hit the send
> key
> > > when
> > > > > aiming for the save key.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Keep us posted on the Nissan.  I don't
> know
> > > if
> > > > > anyone else has a Nissan
> > > > > > 4-stroke.  I was considering them, also. 
> Is
> > > it
> > > > > quiet?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Roger, not to go round on this again,
> but my
> > > > > consistent point has been
> > > > > > that Ron with his supposedly
> environmentally
> > > sound
> > > > > engine has just dumped
> > > > > > more oil into the environment in 2 hours
> than
> > > I
> > > > > have dumped into the
> > > > > > environment with my 2 stroke in 2 years. 
> The
> > > > > dealer reports this was not
> > > > > an
> > > > > > isolated case.  Many people on the list
> with
> > > > > 4-strokes are dumping oil
> > > > > into
> > > > > > their gas tanks to ensure proper
> lubrication
> > > of
> > > > > their engines.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As everyone knows, I can go off on a
> > > right-wing
> > > > > screed on this issue,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > I am trying to restrain myself.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I know everyone is trying to do the
> right
> > > thing.
> > > > >  Sometimes that impulse
> > > > > > leads to bad policy, bad laws, and bad
> > > decisions.
> > > > > What does Ron do now?
> > > > > > They're not going to give him a new
> engine.
> > > And
> > > > > maybe a new one would be
> > > > > > just as bad as the one he's got.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What do I do now?  I was thinking of
> getting
> > > a
> > > > > 4-stroke, too, but I
> > > > > wanted
> > > > > > to see what happened with Ron.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I WAS waiting with 'bated breath.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill Effros
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: Bill Effros
> > > > > > > To: Ronald Lipton ; The Rhodes 22 mail
> list
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 6:21
> PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I believe it's a contraction for "abated
> > > breth"
> > > > > 'bated breath.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill Effros
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: Ronald Lipton
> > > > > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 6:09
> PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For those of you waiting with baited
> beath
> > > (does
> > > > > this means worms
> > > > > > > hanging out of your mouth?).  I ended up
> > > buying
> > > > > the Nissan 6 four
> > > > > > > cycle.   I could not find a reasonably
> > > priced
> > > > > used 2 cycle long shaft.
> > > > > > > The Monroe Harbormaster was very
> > > accomodating
> > > > > ferrying me out
> > > > > > > to the boat and helping me remove the
> old
> > > engine
> > > > > and install the new
> > > > > > > one.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The story does not yet have a happy
> ending
> > > ...
> > > > > the new Nissan
> > > > > > > is burning oil, having emptied it's
> resovoir
> > > > > after about 2 hours of
> > > > > > > running and with a thick cloud of smoke
> on
> > > > > startup.  I was told by
> > > > > > > the dealer that some of the engines "do
> > > that"
> > > > > until they are broken
> > > > > > > in - but I am sceptical.  Hopefully I
> can
> > > keep
> > > > > it running well
> > > > > > > enough to allow me to finish the season
> > > before
> > > > > it is serviced, but
> > > > > > > I still have the outboard blues.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > for Stan:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Go IU, beat Purdue. ( It might happen
> > > someday)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ron
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
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