[Rhodes22-list] Politics: Goals

[Bill Effros]

Brad,

What are you talking about?:

"The defeat of radical Islam is our goal. Iraq is but one battle."

Iraq wasn't a radical Islamic state, it was secular, and we spent a lot of money on Saddam Hussein to keep it that way.  Granted he was not a nice man, but by overthrowing him we have created a radical Islamic state--just the opposite of what you state as "our" goal.

If we let the Iraqis vote, the radical Islamists win.  If we don't let them vote, we create a civil war that will determine who gets the oil and then they will create 1 or more radical Islamic states.

All of this costs us a fortune in people and taxpayer dollars.  It's a lose-lose-lose-lose.  I can't see a winning scenario, can you?

We can't afford any more battles like this one, and no matter who wins the election in the United States we're eventually going to head back to isolationism for a generation to make sure there are no more battles like this one.  I don't think that's right either, but I can't see any other realistic scenario, can you?

We are running out of soldiers, plain and simple.  This country is not going to go for a Vietnam era style draft, and planeloads full of body bags.  

The population of South Vietnam was substantially less than the current population of Iraq.  They started by fighting us with sharpened bamboo sticks.  We were never able to "pacify" or "Vietnamize" that country--even though we inserted 4 times as many troops as we now have in Iraq.

We are not going to do that again, and we are not going to do this again.  The only question is how will we extricate ourselves from the current mess with the least long term damage.  No matter how you slice it, the least long term damage is going to be a lot of damage.

Bill




----- Original Message ----- 
From: brad haslett 
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list 
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Goals


Bob,

After posting early this morning,  I began searching
through my library for "Sleeping With the Devil:How
Washington Sold Our Soul for Crude", by Robert Baer
for a reference.  It seems this book has developed
"feet", or perhaps it was loaned, or my 2 1/2 year old
re-shelved it for me.  Anyway, I stumbled across a
different  book that is a collection of essays written
shortly after 9/11.  The author of "An Autum of War",
Victor Hanson, is a professor of Classical Studies at
California State University - Fresno.  Professor
Hanson stated in an essay written December 2001 what I
think is the essense of my argument supporting the war
in Iraq.

"Nearly all the promised utopias of the past-facism,
communism, third-world liberationist kleptocracy, and
Islamic theocracy-have now had their day and failed
miserably before the eyes of billions.  A Westernized
and secular minority in the Middle East knows that the
future lies only with freedom and democracy.  While
hostile in a variety of ways to America, it is perhaps
still the only hope of millions.  America must stand
ready to go to war with any country of the region that
kills our citizens, and stand aloof from all the
illegitimate governments of the Middle East Bloc..."

As President Bush stated last week to the UN, " For
too long, many nations, including my own, tolerated,
even excused, oppression in the Middle East in the
name of stability. Oppression became common, but
stability never arrived.  We must take a different
approach.  We must help the reformers of the Middle
East as they work for freedom, and strive to build a
community of peaceful, democratic nations."

We have mislabled this war as a war on terrorism.
Terror is but one of the weapons used. The reality is
that it is a war on Islamic militantism, no less an
important fight than the "isms" stated above that we
sucessfully defeated in the twentieth century. The
defeat of radical Islam is our goal. Iraq is but one
battle.  Our efforts to find a negotiated peace will
be no more successful than was Chamberlin's. 
Churchill understood.

To quote John Kennedy at his inaugural address
referring to  the threat of communism, "Let every
nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we
shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any
hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order
to assure the survival and the success of liberty".

Our challenge is no less.  

Brad Haslett
"CoraShen"

--- Robert Skinner <robert at squirrelhaven.com> wrote:

> brad haslett wrote:
> > ...
> > Vietnam became the quagmire it was because we
> didn't
> > have clearly defined goals.  We did not lose a
> single
> > major battle there.  The enemy defeated us on our
> own
> > streets, in our own homes becaused we lost the
> will.
> > ...
> 
> Point well made, Brad.  This message is not about
> Bush 
> vs. Kerry.  It is about national policy.
> 
> I'd like to see 3 to 5 well defined and achievable
> goals,
> specific steps that will extricate us from the
> current 
> mess, and a clear picture of a world where
> terrorists
> are not motivated to harm a few to control many.
> 
> I probably share that feeling with several million
> of my 
> fellow patriots as we watch the erosion of our 
> constitutional rights in pursuit of shifting
> goals-de-jour.
> 
> Frankly, I doubt that it is possible to prevent
> terrorists 
> from carrying out their operations in any but the
> most 
> militant dictatorship.  Biological, chemical, and 
> radiological weapons will eventually fall into the
> hands 
> of the terrorists.
> 
> I, for one, prefer to take the risks and enjoy my
> freedom.
> 
> Our government has to stop constraining our own
> freedoms,
> rebuild our alliances around the world, improve our
> intelligence (both intellectual and covert), and
> carry out
> a brutally effective program of assassination of
> those who
> threaten us.
> 
> We cannot continue to punish whole populations for
> the 
> acts of a few -- and especially we cannot act
> against our 
> own citizens.
> 
> /Bob Skinner
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> 




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