[Rhodes22-list] Politics: Goals

Sun Sep 26 09:41:07 EDT 2004

Brad & Bill

Bill is right here. Iraq was ruled by the Bathist (sic?) party made up of 
Sunnis. If it comes down to a vote most likely a Shite will win. The Shites 
are the fundamental extremists. Shites do not believe in seperation of 
church and state. Shites are like our Baptist snake handlers, The are "old 
school' muslims and they hate our guts. Take a look at Iran if you want an 
example. Religous differences are one of the reasons Bin Laden was not a fan 
of Iraq.

Bill the VC may had started with bamboo spears but they were well armed by 
the USSR and China. I do agree that we have created a mess in Iraq with no 
easy solutions. Knee jerk reactions usually have a bad ending. Terror 
tactics are designed to create terror. Scared and angry people make poor 
decisions. In our case the country was attacked by Saudi Arabian terrorists 
so we attacked Iraq, Now the Chechnan (sic?) terrorists have killed Russian 
school children will Russia attack Iran?

And what about the Kurds? Why do they all hate the Kurds? There are no easy 
answers.

Wally

>From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Goals
>Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 01:37:52 -0400
>
>Brad,
>
>What are you talking about?:
>
>"The defeat of radical Islam is our goal. Iraq is but one battle."
>
>Iraq wasn't a radical Islamic state, it was secular, and we spent a lot of 
>money on Saddam Hussein to keep it that way.  Granted he was not a nice 
>man, but by overthrowing him we have created a radical Islamic state--just 
>the opposite of what you state as "our" goal.
>
>If we let the Iraqis vote, the radical Islamists win.  If we don't let them 
>vote, we create a civil war that will determine who gets the oil and then 
>they will create 1 or more radical Islamic states.
>
>All of this costs us a fortune in people and taxpayer dollars.  It's a 
>lose-lose-lose-lose.  I can't see a winning scenario, can you?
>
>We can't afford any more battles like this one, and no matter who wins the 
>election in the United States we're eventually going to head back to 
>isolationism for a generation to make sure there are no more battles like 
>this one.  I don't think that's right either, but I can't see any other 
>realistic scenario, can you?
>
>We are running out of soldiers, plain and simple.  This country is not 
>going to go for a Vietnam era style draft, and planeloads full of body 
>bags.
>
>The population of South Vietnam was substantially less than the current 
>population of Iraq.  They started by fighting us with sharpened bamboo 
>sticks.  We were never able to "pacify" or "Vietnamize" that country--even 
>though we inserted 4 times as many troops as we now have in Iraq.
>
>We are not going to do that again, and we are not going to do this again.  
>The only question is how will we extricate ourselves from the current mess 
>with the least long term damage.  No matter how you slice it, the least 
>long term damage is going to be a lot of damage.
>
>Bill
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: brad haslett
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 11:49 PM
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Goals
>
>
>Bob,
>
>After posting early this morning,  I began searching
>through my library for "Sleeping With the Devil:How
>Washington Sold Our Soul for Crude", by Robert Baer
>for a reference.  It seems this book has developed
>"feet", or perhaps it was loaned, or my 2 1/2 year old
>re-shelved it for me.  Anyway, I stumbled across a
>different  book that is a collection of essays written
>shortly after 9/11.  The author of "An Autum of War",
>Victor Hanson, is a professor of Classical Studies at
>California State University - Fresno.  Professor
>Hanson stated in an essay written December 2001 what I
>think is the essense of my argument supporting the war
>in Iraq.
>
>"Nearly all the promised utopias of the past-facism,
>communism, third-world liberationist kleptocracy, and
>Islamic theocracy-have now had their day and failed
>miserably before the eyes of billions.  A Westernized
>and secular minority in the Middle East knows that the
>future lies only with freedom and democracy.  While
>hostile in a variety of ways to America, it is perhaps
>still the only hope of millions.  America must stand
>ready to go to war with any country of the region that
>kills our citizens, and stand aloof from all the
>illegitimate governments of the Middle East Bloc..."
>
>As President Bush stated last week to the UN, " For
>too long, many nations, including my own, tolerated,
>even excused, oppression in the Middle East in the
>name of stability. Oppression became common, but
>stability never arrived.  We must take a different
>approach.  We must help the reformers of the Middle
>East as they work for freedom, and strive to build a
>community of peaceful, democratic nations."
>
>We have mislabled this war as a war on terrorism.
>Terror is but one of the weapons used. The reality is
>that it is a war on Islamic militantism, no less an
>important fight than the "isms" stated above that we
>sucessfully defeated in the twentieth century. The
>defeat of radical Islam is our goal. Iraq is but one
>battle.  Our efforts to find a negotiated peace will
>be no more successful than was Chamberlin's.
>Churchill understood.
>
>To quote John Kennedy at his inaugural address
>referring to  the threat of communism, "Let every
>nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we
>shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any
>hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order
>to assure the survival and the success of liberty".
>
>Our challenge is no less.
>
>Brad Haslett
>"CoraShen"
>
>--- Robert Skinner <robert at squirrelhaven.com> wrote:
>
> > brad haslett wrote:
> > > ...
> > > Vietnam became the quagmire it was because we
> > didn't
> > > have clearly defined goals.  We did not lose a
> > single
> > > major battle there.  The enemy defeated us on our
> > own
> > > streets, in our own homes becaused we lost the
> > will.
> > > ...
> >
> > Point well made, Brad.  This message is not about
> > Bush
> > vs. Kerry.  It is about national policy.
> >
> > I'd like to see 3 to 5 well defined and achievable
> > goals,
> > specific steps that will extricate us from the
> > current
> > mess, and a clear picture of a world where
> > terrorists
> > are not motivated to harm a few to control many.
> >
> > I probably share that feeling with several million
> > of my
> > fellow patriots as we watch the erosion of our
> > constitutional rights in pursuit of shifting
> > goals-de-jour.
> >
> > Frankly, I doubt that it is possible to prevent
> > terrorists
> > from carrying out their operations in any but the
> > most
> > militant dictatorship.  Biological, chemical, and
> > radiological weapons will eventually fall into the
> > hands
> > of the terrorists.
> >
> > I, for one, prefer to take the risks and enjoy my
> > freedom.
> >
> > Our government has to stop constraining our own
> > freedoms,
> > rebuild our alliances around the world, improve our
> > intelligence (both intellectual and covert), and
> > carry out
> > a brutally effective program of assassination of
> > those who
> > threaten us.
> >
> > We cannot continue to punish whole populations for
> > the
> > acts of a few -- and especially we cannot act
> > against our
> > own citizens.
> >
> > /Bob Skinner
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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> >
>
>
>
>
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