Fw: [Rhodes22-list] NC-PHRF appeal

[Peter Thorn]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Thorn" <pthorn at nc.rr.com>
To: "Wally Buck" <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] NC-PHRF appeal


> Wally,
>
> Good to hear they rated it right.  PHRF, the "politically correct" racing
> rating system, will soon lower us if we start winning.  Perhaps that's why
> it's so popular.
> The basic rating assumption is that all boats are all sailed by good
> sailors, so the boat ratings are adjusted if a particular boat starts
> winning too much.  By the time one lives long enough to afford a Rhodes
22,
> one learns that in real life peoples' talents and abilities  vary
widely -- 
> so the PHRF rating system's basic assumption is a little faulty.  But,
it's
> fun because everyone, after a while, has an equal chance.
>
> My one-design friends say that handicap racing, compared to one-design, is
> like "kissing your sister".  I'm not that much of a purist, but just hope
it
> blows like stink again this year at the Oriental Cup.  In PHRF, slower
boats
> tend to do better in fast races.  In those conditions IMF would be an
> advantage too.
>
> I rarely have a problem finding crew.  The key is to obtain an early
> commitment.  This year David Schartz is crewing with me on the six regatta
> Tanzer 16 SAYRA circuit.   The 2nd weekend in July we'll be at the
"Edenton
> Bay Challenge", a multiclass one-design regatta hosted by the tourism
> commission and the local sailing club.  This would be a good venue for a
> Rhodes 22 gathering, if any out there are so inclined.
>
> PT
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Wally Buck" <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
> To: <pthorn at nc.rr.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 7:35 AM
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] NC-PHRF appeal
>
>
> > That rating sounds about right. HYC came up with something similar. I
> never
> > understood why the IMF is not rated slower than standard main. ;-)
> >
> > I opted to pass on racing this year. There were to many weekends spent
at
> > the dock attending club parties. This year I want to spend that time
over
> > nighting on the water.
> >
> > PT are you going to have crew? Good luck!
> >
> > Wally
> >
> > >From: "Peter Thorn" <pthorn at nc.rr.com>
> > >Reply-To: Peter Thorn <pthorn at nc.rr.com>,The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > ><rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >To: "Rhodes 22 List Members" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >Subject: [Rhodes22-list] NC-PHRF appeal
> > >Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:56:34 -0400
> > >
> > >Hello Rhodies~
> > >
> > >In today's mail the NC-PHRF appeal arrived.  It was very good news.
> > >
> > >Last year at the Oriental Cup Regatta it almost blew the flags off the
> > >poles.  So, since I believe sailboat races are won going to windward, I
> > >decided to amend Raven's rating application to include Raven's very
nice
> > >2003 Doyle 135 genny as the only headsail.  (Thanks Mark!)
> > >
> > >They rated Raven at 276 (base rating 267 plus 9/sec/mile additional for
> > >headsail).  That certainly is quite a generous rating and much more
than
> I
> > >expected.
> > >
> > >Perhaps they were convinced that Standard Mains are faster, so they set
> the
> > >Rhodes 22 base rating 3 sec/mile higher than their base rating for the
> > >Rhodes Continental.  If I start to enjoy racing success with Raven,
they
> > >are likely to quickly adjust the base rating downward, as happened to
> > >Roger.
> > >
> > >As promised, here's the text of the NC-PHRF  Rhodes 22 base rating
appeal
> > >submitted a few weeks ago.  It makes good bed-time reading.
> > >
> > >PT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Bill Jarvis, Chairman
> > >NC-PHRF
> > >
> > >The 2005 NC-PHRF Yearbook has lots of useful information and I am happy
> to
> > >have it.  I am a 24 year member of the Carolina Sailing Club
(one-design)
> > >at Kerr Lake and know that race management work sometimes goes
> > >unrecognized. So, "Thanks!" to you and the members of your committee
for
> > >your service to the sport of sailboat racing and for providing the
> > >organizational structure for PHRF racing.
> > >
> > >In February I acquired s/v Raven, a 1988 Rhodes 22.  My Admiral Tana is
> not
> > >a racer, so the primary purpose of this great trailer-sailor boat is to
> > >enable us to cruise coastal waters within a 3-5 hour drive of Chapel
> Hill,
> > >NC.  Raven will be a great vessel for that!  For the last three years I
> > >crewed with Lawrence Miller on his Tanzer 26 in the Oriental Cup
Regatta
> > >This year I hope to enter Raven in that race and that's why I applied
to
> > >NC-PHRF.
> > >
> > >When the measurement certificate and 2005 NC-PHRF Handbook arrived, I
was
> > >surprised to learn that NC-PHRF has two Base Ratings for the Rhodes 22.
> > >The Rhodes 22 is listed at Base Rate 216 and Rhodes 22 Continental is
> > >listed at Base Rate 264.   These two are essentially the same boat,
> > >therefore I believe there must be an error.  The Rhodes Continental
Base
> > >Rating of 264 is consistent with other PHRF base ratings I have seen
> > >published for the boat, but I have never seen a PHRF rating published
> > >anywhere, except for NC-PHRF, showing the Rhodes 22 as low as 216.
> > >
> > >Stan Spitzer of General Boats Inc. has been continuously building these
> > >boats, first in New York starting in the 1960s and, more recently in
the
> > >old Tanzer plant in Edenton, NC. http://www.rhodes22.com/ .   When he
> > >started, Stan called the boat the Rhodes Continental.  Sometime in the
> > >1980s he relocated to NC and changed the name, for marketing purposes I
> > >think, to the Rhodes 22.  The boat has been steadily improved with
luxury
> > >cruising features over the years, but the hull, centerboard and rudder
> are
> > >identical on the Rhodes Continental and most Rhodes 22s.  Recently,
Stan
> > >started building the boat with a triangular "Diamond Board"- I think
> since
> > >the late '90s.  I do not know of any Rhodes 22s with Diamond Boards
that
> > >race or if there is any advantage or disadvantage to the newer
> centerboard.
> > >
> > >Although the two boats are essentially alike, there are a few minor
> > >differences:
> > >   1)  Rhodes Continentals have more powerful rigs.   The hulls are a
few
> > >hundred pounds lighter and carry a larger, roached, leech battened,
> > >"standard" mainsail with adequate amounts of draft forward.
> > >
> > >   2)  The Rhodes 22 IMF (In Mast Furling) mainsail
> > >http://www.rhodes22.com/mast_small.html  is a cruising convenience but
> also
> > >a much less powerful rig than the standard mainsail on the Rhodes
> > >Continental.  Most newer Rhodes 22s have IMF.   Because the mainsail
> rolls
> > >up on a vertical tube inside the mast, it cannot have battens to
support
> a
> > >roach, so the mailsails are smaller, cut very flat and are roachless.
To
> > >get the main flat enough to roll up on the vertical IMF roller, much of
> the
> > >sail shape that generates power to drive the boat is compromised.  Many
> > >newer boats have heavier built-in heads, nicer interior finishes and
> > >heavier, thicker hulls.  All this weight ads up, so the new boats are
> > >heavier and have less powerful rigs.   (To further complicate matters,
it
> > >should be noted that all Rhodes Continentals have standard mailsail
rigs,
> > >but not all Rhodes 22s come equipped with IMF mailsails.  Since the
boats
> > >are built to order, a few owners prefer to forgo the sailhandling
> > >convenience of IMF in favor of the greater performance of a standard
rig.
> > >Most buy the boat for cruising, as I did, and prefer IMF).
> > >The Rhodes 22 Continental with standard main  (NC-PHRF base rating 264)
> is
> > >widely considered in the owners group to be the faster boat.  Therefore
> it
> > >must be a mistake to rate the Rhodes 22 IMF lower (NC-PHRF base rating
> > >216).  It just doesn't pass the logic test.  So, I researched the
Rhodes
> 22
> > >base rating with internet friends on the e-mail R22 owner's group
> > >list-serve for more information.
> > >
> > >Bob Dilk has a 1976 (?) Rhodes Continental s/v Knot Necessary he raced
at
> > >the Pamlico Sailing Club (PSC) out of McCotter's Marina in little
> > >Washington, NC until he moved to TN in 2003.  He said the PSC-PHRF
> > >committee rated his boat at 256.    Bob Dilk writes:
> > >   "Yes I did race with the PSC.  We had 3 classes and I was in the
> slowest
> > >class. My sails were blown out, but I learned a lot. It was (is) a
great
> > >club, and I had several boats that were my competition. I have replaced
> > >both the main and the Genoa with new (used) sails from Stan. The boat
is
> > >better but I need some slower boats to come out and play.  The Rhodes
22
> is
> > >not a racing hull, but I have learned to make it point better (sic) and
> > >this helps when I am cruising. Less tacks getting home."
> > >
> > >   [ I am copying Jay Price, a member of your committee also listed on
> the
> > >PSC website as a handicapper.  I hope Jay can provide additional
> > >information on this issue.]
> > >Roger Philaja wrote about his experience PHRF racing his Rhodes
> Continental
> > >s/v Dynamic Equilibrium in Arkansas in the early 1990s.  (Note:  Roger
> > >sails Dynamic Equilibrium with a 155 Mylar Genoa, fully battened main
> with
> > >custom masthead crane to allow maximum roach and a masthead spinnaker).
> > >   "I've not been able to find any specific PHRF reference to Rhodes
22's
> > >with IMF vs. the standard rig. The USYRU PHRF Rating Handbook gives a
> range
> > >of 258 sec/mile to 312 sec/mile, all fleets indicating limited racing
> > >experience (reflecting the relatively small number of Rhodes 22 out
there
> > >which are being PHRF raced) I suspect the 312 sec/mile rating is with
IMF
> &
> > >258 sec/mile is with the standard rig.
> > >
> > >   The race committee at the Lake Dardanelle Sailing Club in
> Russellville,
> > >AR had no experience with a PHRF rating for the Rhodes 22. They started
> me
> > >out at 300 sec/mile in 1987. I was steadily adjusted downward until my
> > >rating was 234 sec/mile in the fall, 1990 season. In light to moderate
> air,
> > >I could sail to this rating if I didn't make any mistakes & Daniel, my
> > >foresail trimmer (7 years old at the time), didn't lose his
> concentration.
> > >At about 15 knots apparent wind speed, I needed to reef the boat to
keep
> > >her sailing on her lines & could no longer sail to this rating."
> > >Mark Kaynor, previous owner of Raven, offered this web reference for
> > >PHRF-NE (New England) that gives the Rhodes Continental 22 a 276 base
> > >rating.  http://www.phrfne.org/baseh.htm .
> > >
> > >YRALIS  (Long Island Sound) base rates the Rhodes 22 Continental  at
258
> > >http://www.yralis.org/2004/base_ratings.html  p33
> > >
> > >There are not many Rhodes 22 owners who race -- it is primarily
purchased
> > >as a trailerable cruising boat.  There seems to be scant data on the
> boat.
> > >Other than Bob Dilk's boat, do you know about any Rhodes 22s that have
> > >raced in NC-PHRF?
> > >
> > >Please consider this request and look into how the Rhodes 22 base
rating
> > >was established to be so low.  Perhaps it was just a typo.  Thank you
for
> > >your time and attention.
> > >
> > >Fair winds,
> > >
> > >Peter Thorn
> > >Chapel Hill, NC
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >
>