[Rhodes22-list] Boom room and Stan's Idea
Bob Keller
r22yankeeclipper at hotmail.com
Sat Aug 20 13:18:09 EDT 2005
Bill,
Well said.
The last time I asked Stan about the Boom Room he said he was not happy with
the current supply situation and because the demand was so small, the
product was a bit over-priced. He added that he did not recommend it at
that time. The idea that we should somehow "overpay" (defined as perceived
value<cost) for this or any item just to keep GB in business is absurd. Why
don't we all just make donations to the company instead?
As for Stan's idea about a 5% commission for selling a boat on the list, I
think it's a great idea, but the actual implementation of it will be
difficult to impossible. It would end up being a strictly voluntary
situation. Personally, if I were going to sell my boat I would run an add
on the list and would also ask Stan to sell it for me for a commission. I
might even bring it to Edenton and put it there on consignment. However, I
am not planning to sell my boat, so sorry about that Stan...
I do have an idea for Stan to improved the financial health of GB. The R-22
website is very well done. Why not add a parts catalog section where parts
can be ordered online? I don't know, but I suspect most owners check with
West Marine first if they need a part and then call Stan if they can't find
it. There is a lot of money from parts going elsewhere because of this.
Stan could probably charge at least as much as West Marine(which is rarely a
bargain), maybe even more because of the convenience and the certainty that
the part will fit. I suspect that this would quickly turn into a very
profitable and sizeable part of the business.
But then, who knows, I could be wrong...
Bob K
Yankee Clipper
>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] boom room and boat cost
>Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 10:49:47 -0400
>
>Ed,
>
>The Chinese have changed the equation. When they went from Communism to
>Capitalism they knew how to do it. They will eat the lunch of every US
>manufacturer who tries to raise prices based on increased demand.
>
>Meanwhile, the eroding value of the US dollar means that while oil prices
>skyrocket for us (oil prices are based on US dollars), they remain
>essentially the same for every country that does not peg the value of its
>currency to the US dollar. When the Chinese revalued the Yuan they
>decreased the cost of oil to their manufacturers.
>
>It sure has been rough sledding for US manufacturers, and it's not going to
>get any better. It's getting worse.
>
>How does GB survive in this environment?
>
>GB has a product whose perceived value is greater than its cost. Few US
>manufacturers can make this claim. GB will wind up either going out of
>business, or increasing its prices, and aiming for a market that can easily
>afford to pay for a superior product. (Think Mercedes Benz.)
>
>The Boom Room is a fantastic upgrade to a standard R-22. The problem with
>it is that the perceived value is less than the cost. If Stan could bring
>the manufacturing cost down, he would sell more, make more money, and put
>more distance between his product and every other trailerable sailboat on
>the market.
>
>The boom room discussion is an attempt to help Stan make more money on each
>boat sale, while building for us an addition to the boat that will never
>become available from any outside source. Capitalism is not Stan's long
>suit. For Stan to survive he will have to decrease the margin on each
>sale, while increasing the number of dollars he actually puts into his own
>pocket.
>
>To accomplish this with the Boom Room accessory, he must drive down his
>manufacturing costs. He will not be able to raise the price on this item.
>If enough people jump in to make it worth his while, Stan will think about
>how to drive down manufacturing costs while maintaining all of the features
>already incorporated.
>
>Pamela and Alex can (and would, if asked nicely and they had the time) help
>Stan. They know the manufacturing costs of these kinds of items; they know
>the suppliers; they know the labor market in Stan's neck of the woods.
>
>The demand for Stan's product is probably insufficient to ever interest the
>Chinese. They may knock off a boat, but it's unlikely to be Stan's boat,
>unless somebody makes it very easy for them. What they will do is force
>down the price of lesser trailerable sailboats, and steal as many of Stan's
>ideas as they can easily incorporate.
>
>The Boom Room will not be an easy idea to steal, because it is based on so
>many other ideas already built into the boat. You can't just put a Boom
>Room on a MacGregor.
>
>Going to a wedding, got to run,
>
>Bill Effros
>
>
>
>
>
>.
>
>ed kroposki wrote:
>
>>Chris:
>> That was the old retail model. It was based on economies of scale.
>>In today's world, Stan's suppliers more often than not go out of business
>>between units of production. Others buy enough raw materials to build one
>>unit. Then order more raw material for the next unit. In the meantime
>>their suppliers raise the price, and they raise their price. This is the
>>way it is working for Stan. Then other suppliers realize he wants a
>>second unit, so they raise
>>the price. They have found a hot item and want to milk it for all it is
>>worth. Today's economic model is sell one at a time. If it sells without
>>discount, raise the price.
>> Those guys who are waiting for the price of anything in demand to
>>come down will never get that product in today's market place. Stan is
>>trying to build boats completely himself. He now has to fabricate many of
>>the pieces that he used to get from suppliers. If the product has value
>>and demand, the price is going up. The
>>economic theories that they taught you in college no longer apply. By the
>>time you put in your order the price will go up 25 per cent. Mark my
>>words,
>>the plastic that they use for the panels might not even be available. The
>>word market place has changed. If Rummy has not left yet, maybe he
>>will contradict me and say the
>>price of roofing is going down. Is this the case Mr. Rummy?
>>
>>Ed K
>>Greenville, SC, USA
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Chris Geankoplis
>>Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 2:25 AM
>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>Subject: Re: @SPAM++++ [Rhodes22-list] KA-boom room
>>
>>Todd,
>> You missed the point! If Stan can have one widget made at a cost
>>of
>>$100 and there is a 50% markup he makes $50. If his sub contractor is
>>willing to make 5 of them for 90$ a piece because there are 5 of us who
>>want
>>one Stan makes $45 each. Times 5. If nothing else, if the price for a
>>widget is 150 retail then Stan does even better. By coordinating our
>>ordering we make it a more profitable transaction for him and his
>>subcontractor.
>>Chris G.
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Tavares" <sprocket80 at mail.com>
>>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 6:15 PM
>>Subject: @SPAM++++ [Rhodes22-list] KA-boom room
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been following this boom room thread and scratching my head.
>>Stan
>>wrote to the list for ideas because his business is hurting right now.
>>Then
>>this thread about the boom rooms started up. Maybe if we all get together
>>and order boom rooms....we can beat Stan down on his price?!?! HUH?? A
>>"volume discount" from a one-off custom builder?
>>
>> Better yet, why don't we ask Alex; a fellow businessman and (I think)
>>friend of Stan's to cut him out of the picture altogether?!? My guess is
>>that Alex is ignoring purposely request...but thats just my guess (I
>>cant't
>>speak for anyone else...especially Mr Alex).
>>
>> I measured a old design Triad trailer and posted the drawings on the
>>list. I was publicly berated for violating Stan's intellectual property
>>rights.... but now my berater is advocating that Rhodies collectively join
>>to get Stan to give a "volume discount"....or better yet, have someone
>>else
>>make a knock-off boom room and take bread off of Stan's table completely.
>>Maybe I am missing something here.
>>
>>Todd
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>Subject: Re: @CHECK Re: [Rhodes22-list] boom room
>>Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:40:31 -0400
>>
>>
>>
>>>Bob,
>>>
>>>They ain't cheap. Too much detail work and a lot of canvas. I
>>>assume you have the Pop-Top Enclosure. I tried to find out if Alex
>>>and Pamela had an interest in taking a crack at this, but Alex
>>>never replied. I'm sure we can drive down the price if a bunch of
>>>us order at the same time, but I doubt we can drive down the price
>>>very far. On the other hand, I doubt they will ever be available
>>>in the future at the price we will pay.
>>>
>>>Bill Effros
>>>
>>>Bob Keller wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I am interested in exploring the boom room, but the last time I
>>>>asked about it (several years) it was pretty expensive and not
>>>>readily available. Looking at an alternative designed by Rummy
>>>>himself, but before deciding would like to know the latest with
>>>>Boom Room design, availability and pricing. Will be moving the
>>>>Yankee Clipper from the comfortable confines of my own dock on
>>>>Lake Hartwell to a marina in the Savannah area next spring, so I
>>>>am planning ahead.
>>>>Thanks.
>>>>Bob K
>>>>Yankee Clipper
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>Subject: Re: @CHECK Re: [Rhodes22-list] boom room
>>>>>Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 22:07:10 -0400
>>>>>
>>>>>Chris,
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm with you. Ed notwithstanding, if enough people place orders
>>>>>Stan will work out some more wrinkles. I do plan to order, and
>>>>>will work with you, Stan, and anyone else who wants to play.
>>>>>
>>>>>Bill Effros
>>>>>
>>>>>Chris Geankoplis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hey Bill,
>>>>>> Maybe Stan will give us a volume Discount as the Boomroom
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>is
>>
>>
>>>>>>supposed to be my Christmass present. Let me know so we can
>>>>>>co-ordinate our
>>>>>>orders. Anyone out there who is thinking about a boomroom or Poptop
>>>>>>enclosure let us know, it is always cheaper to manufacture and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>purchase in
>>
>>
>>>>>>volume, right Stan?
>>>>>>Chris Geankoplis
>>>>>>S/V Enosis
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 6:05 AM
>>>>>>Subject: @CHECK Re: [Rhodes22-list] boom room
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>John,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The pop-top enclosure is different from the Boom Room. The Pop-Top
>>>>>>>enclosure is an elegant addition to the boat. Many people have them,
>>>>>>>and everyone raves about them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The Boom-Room is still in the prototype stage. Many people have
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>them,
>>
>>
>>>>>>>but most are different. The concept is elegant, but Stan has not
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>been
>>
>>
>>>>>>>satisfied with his engineering to date. He feels there is too much
>>>>>>>stuff required to hold it up compared to the number of uses you are
>>>>>>>likely to get from actually deploying it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On my Pop-Top Enclosure there is a Velcro strip at the stern end
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>where
>>
>>
>>>>>>>the Pop-Top enclosure is supposed to attach to the Boom Room
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>enclosure.
>>
>>
>>>>>>>I have attached pictures of Slim's Boom Room and Roger's Boom Room.
>>>>>>>Both are different from Stan's Boom Room. I believe Stan now makes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>them
>>
>>
>>>>>>>differently from the way it is shown on his web site.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I plan to get a Boom Room this winter (Ed, I'll need it for the Keys)
>>>>>>>and that will force Stan to think about it again. Like Mary Lou, I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>use
>>
>>
>>>>>>>my Pop-Top Enclosure all the time, and just love it. It coverts the
>>>>>>>cabin into a nicer stateroom than I have slept in in much larger
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>boats.
>>
>>
>>>>>>>The only problem with the Pop-Top enclosure is that when you are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>using
>>
>>
>>>>>>>the cabin to sleep in, you can't use if for much else. I anticipate
>>>>>>>that adding the Boom Room will be like adding a bedroom to my house.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bill Effros
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>john steadham wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Does the boom room cover the poptop or is that a different item?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>Does
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>anybody have pictures of the r22 with the boom room up?
>>>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>----
>>
>>>>>>----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Name: Slim's Boom Room.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 85243 bytes Desc:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>not
>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>available
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Url:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200508/17/SlimsBoomRoo
>>m.jpg -
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>>>>>----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Name: Roger's Boom Room.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1854402 bytes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>Desc: not
>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>available
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Url:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200508/17/RogersBoomRo
>>om.jpg -
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>>>>>----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
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