[Rhodes22-list] Main Sail Speed

Mon Aug 22 11:33:52 EDT 2005

Phyllis,

I've been watching these emails go by but have not had the time to respond.
I sailed my recycled Rhodes for 2 seasons with a traditional main and a 135
genoa, and then traded with stan for an IMF with 175 on a CDI furler.
 (BTW - my best research at the time - Stan wasn't too much help as the
standard masts are old- was that if you switch masts will need to replace
the standing rigging as the masts are not the same height)

My experience is that the standard main and 135 sailed a little faster and
pointed higher.  With the IMF rig most of the power comes from the big genoa
and the main is basically balancing the sail plan as in the mizzen of a
ketch or yawl.  I reef the genoa first then reduce the main to keep balance.
My experience is the boat will not sail well at all with just the main out
and will not tack.

There are three problems to this:  1) the big genoa does not sheet in close
enough to point that well.  It is worse when reefed.  2) the big genoa is
made of relatively heavy material and does not perform well in light wind
aft of the beam due to it weight.  3)  When sailing in high winds in a small
keel boat, it is usual to ease the mainsheet in gusts to keep the hull on
its lines.  With the already small main reefed, you don't have much to dump
and you need to keep a fair amount of jib out for speed.

Is all this bad? No just different.  Would I go back to a standard main?
No.  In fact the IMF has been keeping me from seriously looking for a boat
in the 28-30' range.  For my sailing, the absolute ease of sail handling
makes up for a few more tacks going up wind, and when the J24's pass me  I
take solace that when they are furling and covering mains and bagging jibs,
I'll be relaxing in the cockpit or already on the lauch heading for a
restaurant.
David Walker
S/V Windspept
Marblehead  MA

David Walker Photography
davidwalkerphotography.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "P&M Beals" <beals at rci.rutgers.edu>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Main Sail Speed

> HI.
>
> It's not speed so much that I care about it's getting so I feel my vessel
> responds well in different conditions.
>
> I think I am making progress...I read your post, Bill, from 3/04 with
Craig
> Lowe's tip to help me locate it, on tacking, and tacking when sailing in
> stronger winds...
>
> I also hope to still connect with Jay Friedland for a Sept. sail on a good
> strong windy day... without my 10 yr old daughter worried about too much
> wind, too much heeling, and see if he has any pointers for us...
>
> I believe a good part of my issue has to do with adjusting my sailing
> technique to this boat...so I am not faulting the boat...or the IMF for
that
> matter...I grew up sailing a vessel that would come about on a dime...as
the
> saying goes...it sailed so close to the wind that other captains on other
> sailboats could not believe it, and yes, it was fast, very fast, and it
> could sail with only a breath of wind...a gaff rigged 36 footer...no
motor.
>
> but hey, that was that boat, and now I am enjoying our R-22... I am
> interested  to just compare sailing with the traditional mainsail vs. the
> IMF....that is why the fact that  I have an R-22 traditional mainsail
> neighbor now at my anchorage, but he happens to be kind of a solitary
soul,
> and did not extend an offer to have me sail on his boat, is a little
> disappointing...
>
> The thought has come to me, that with my boat came a slightly worn
> traditional mainsail...I could buy from Stan a mast for the traditional
> main, keep the IMF...and do some sailing with the traditional
mainsail...I'm
> not convinced I should give up the IMF too quickly  here...
>
> but buying a mast  probably is not a cheap item either...I am more
> interested in getting the motor lift to help me get our 9.9  yamaha 4
stroke
> easily out of the water...
>
> Phyllis
> Whisper
> Keyport
>
>
>
>
>
> > From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 17:03:24 -0400
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Main Sail Speed
> >
> > Phyllis,
> >
> > I still don't know if boats sail measurably faster with traditional
> > sails than IMF, but I've been working with my IMF to see how fast it
> > will sail.  Generally I get most of the drive out of the head sail, and
> > use the main sail primarily to keep the boat balanced.  Recently I've
> > been sailing with a full main sail and storm sail sized jib to try to
> > determine the maximum speed I can get out of main sail alone.  To date
> > the best I have done is 4.2 kts sustained on main sail alone.
> >
> > What is the best speed you can get out of just your main sail?  What is
> > the best speed people with traditional main sails can get out of their
> > main sails alone?
> >
> > If the traditional people can get significantly higher boat speeds out
> > of just their main sails, I think that would answer some of your
questions.
> >
> > Rummy, are you in this game?  Rummy has a battened IMF.  Does he get
> > more boat speed out of his main sail than non-battened IMF people?
> >
> > I do not set my 4.2 kts. as the gold standard, just as the starting
> > point.  I would expect to be able to get 5 kts. under the right
> > conditions, but I doubt that I could get anywhere near 6.25 under IMF
> > main sail alone.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> >
> > P&M Beals wrote:
> >
> >> Hello.  I was just going through email and saw this note...
> >> sounds great.
> >>
> >> May I ask do you have a traditional mainsail or the IMF?
> >>
> >> I bought a 1986 last summer with IMF, and I just feel that this boat
will
> >> sail even better with a traditional mainsail...
> >>
> >> I hope you  can give me a reply.
> >>
> >> Phyllis Beals
> >> Whisper
> >> Keyport, NJ
> >>
> >> By the way, where on the Hudson do you sail?
> >> Haverstraw Bay?
> >>
> >> I used to sail out of  Catskill Creek, Catskill on my father's gaff
rigged
> >> wooden sloop...this smaller fiberglass boat is a new experience for me,
but
> >> I am trying to hang in there with it.
> >>
> >> Thanks again.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: fnuttersny at aol.com
> >>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>> Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 23:38:28 -0400
> >>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] on ballanced boat
> >>>
> >>> My 73 R22 is bare bones compared to most others on the list.  Two
batteries
> >>> located under the companion way and a 9.5 evinrud in the lazzarete
engine
> >>> well pretty much makes up my boat.  I basically set her up as a very
> >>> comfortable day sailer. In this configuration the boat is slightly
stern
> >>> heavy.  I recently replaced the centerboard with a custom composit
airfoil
> >>> shaped board with no leading and trailing(the board has the same width
over
> >>> its length) edge taper and 25# of bronze makingup the tip of the
board -the
> >>> board dropes quickly-. I have a new rolly-tasker main and a new 150%
head
> >>> sail
> >>> both hanked on..  I have to say that the boat performs fantastic.  In
15 to
> >>> 20
> >>> mph wind and full sails there is almost no pressure on the tiller.
The boat
> >>> seams to dig her nose slightly down and the stern comes up.  I can set
the
> >>> rudder with the tiller tamer and have held my coarse for up to 45 min.
As
> >>> the
> >>> wind picks up I usually stand on the rail up by the mast and hang on
to  the
> >>> sta
> >>> ys and just look down as the boat sails herself falling of slightly
then
> >>> rounding up a little back an forth never more than a vew degrees
either way.
> >>> This is the first time I have sailed the boat with realy good sails
and
> >>> centerboard  etc. and the difference is everything I hoped it would
be.  I
> >>> believe this is a perfect boat for inland waters in my case the Hudson
> >>> river.
> >>> I had four adults on board recently in a steady 25 mph wind. We sat
four in
> >>> a
> >>> row and the boat sailed at maybe 5deg.  We flew across the river
against a
> >>> flood tide still very little pressure on the rudder and very very
close to
> >>> the
> >>> wind.  My passengers thought I was brilliant the way I made the boat
go
> >>> exactly were I wanted it to go and in quick time .  Thanks to a great
design
> >>> and a vew up grades.
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list