[Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?

[Bradley, David]

Bill, we have a neighbor in Old Greenwich who is the head of ops for a
significant US apparel maker and he manages all their China sourcing.
I'll ask him for some advice.

I'll also ask the head of our China sales unit - he's a software guy but
has been in Singapore for the last 15 years - for suggestions on brokers
who could select a piecework company that would do a small order and
enter into a relationship.  

I don't want to replicate what Brad is up to but will be happy to
collect additional info.

Dave Bradley


-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:03 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?

whatever it is the answer is "yes"

stan/gbi

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
To: "R22 List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?


> Dave,
>
> The truth of the matter is that I'm not sure about the need to improve
the 
> boom room, either.  My sense is that if 4 or 5 were built now to the
same 
> specifications that would be the all time Boom Room production record.
>
> Without exception, everyone who has one loves it.  Some have boom
rooms. 
> Some have Bimini rooms.  Some have modified tarps slung over the boom.
I 
> have also discussed with Stan the feasibility of using the stays
coupled 
> with posts inserted into the Captain's Chair sockets; or using the
topping 
> lift and boom to hoist a tent-like structure 10 feet above the cockpit

> space.
>
> I think Stan is a truly gifted engineer, and probably the best
sailboat 
> engineer in the world.  If I'm not sure I've got a better answer, I
always 
> go with Stan's approach.
>
> Stan's central point regarding boom rooms seems to be that even for
people 
> who use it frequently, boom room deployment will account for less than
25% 
> of the total time spent on the boat.  You don't want to mess up the
other 
> 75% of the time, and the actual sailing, trying to deal with
paraphernalia 
> you don't really need in the first place.
>
> I think he is right about this point.  I have rejected the Bimini room

> approach (used by Roger) because I don't want to carry around a Bimini
all 
> the time, nor do I want to stow a Bimini at home when not in use, nor
do I 
> want to impulsively decide to sleep over in the boat, only to find the

> boom room isn't there.
>
> There are many structural alternatives to Stan's boom room, as shown
in 
> the MacGregor boom room pictures posted by Jim Bunnell 
> (http://www.dowsar.com/images/26mde_l.jpg 
> http://www.dowsar.com/images/canvas_l.jpg) but these immediately raise
the 
> windage issues mentioned by Bruce.  It is my sense that Stan's boom
rooms 
> can withstand moderate windage, and I am disinclined to try to improve
on 
> something that we already know works--especially if it is something
Stan 
> built that has gone through several generations to get to where it is.
>
> My guess, and this is just a guess, is that when push comes to shove
Stan 
> can't make a nickel on his boom room.  He can't sew them himself.  He 
> doesn't make enough of them to teach people to make them in his own
shop. 
> And when he looks for ways to give himself more margin, his suppliers 
> suggest cutting corners, and cheapening the product--something Stan is

> constitutionally unable to do.  If he raises the price to the point
where 
> he has a reasonable profit,  nobody buys them.
>
> I think the trick for us, and I don't know if we can do it, is to try
to 
> get Stan's existing product built to his specifications at a price
where 
> he can make a profit on each one sold.  If anyone can suggest
improvements 
> to the product, we should ask Stan to review the ideas.  It will only
pay 
> for Stan to spend even a minute thinking about this if the end result
is 
> that he can make money for his time and experience.
>
> If you have any time, please look around in Shanghai.  If you have 
> business contacts in China, please ask for their help in locating 
> suppliers.
> This idea should work, the only question is whether we have the
resources 
> to help Stan make it work.  I don't know the answer, but if we use our

> heads, and those of us with contacts reach out, maybe we can at least
know 
> if this is a possible partial solution to Stan's Lament.
>
> Bill Effros
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bradley, David wrote:
>
>>Hi, Bill.  I wasn't sure from the earlier mails on this whether there
is
>>still a need to improve the boom room design and prototype it, or get
>>the manufacturing cost down, or both.  It seems like Stan would need
to
>>be pretty set on the design before setting up the supplier
arrangement,
>>and the start up costs might be significant.  I'm happy to buy
whatever
>>it is GB is offering when the time comes, and if committing up front
>>helps to set up a new arrangement I'm happy to do so.
>>
>>I'll be in Shanghai next week.  Can't imagine there is anything I can
do
>>there to help, but let me know if you think of something.  I'll let
you
>>know if I see any cool Chinese boom rooms.
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] Sent: Wednesday, August
24, 
>>2005 1:26 AM
>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>
>>I would be interested as long as Stan is the Exclusive importer of the
>>products.  All the details, margins, engineering and productions are
in
>>the
>>Stan & Brad realm,  Me, I just buy 'em as long it has the designer
>>label...Boat accessories and fashions by Stan Spitzer......(boy, talk
>>about
>>Old Navy)
>>
>>Chris G
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>>To: "R22 List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 9:21 PM
>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>
>>
>>
>>>Brad Haslett emailed me off-list regarding our discussion of boom
>>>
>>rooms,
>>
>>>etc. which he has been following while vacationing in China.
>>>
>>>Brad asked if anyone would have an interest in his exploring Chinese
>>>manufacture of Boom Rooms, Sails, Pop-Top Enclosures, Cockpit and
>>>
>>Cabin
>>
>>>Cushions, Cockpit Fill in Boards, -- all the little stuff the Chinese
>>>can make for a fraction of what it costs to manufacture in the US.
>>>
>>>I have not asked Stan about this, and I don't think Brad has either,
>>>however it goes without saying that if Stan doesn't like the idea,
>>>
>>Brad
>>
>>>is not going to do it.  Stan would make money on every item made in
>>>China, and whatever he says is his cut, that's what he'll get.  There
>>>will be no negotiation on this.
>>>
>>>But before he even begins the project, Brad wants to know how the
>>>ultimate consumers feel about this idea.  If Brad can set up
>>>manufacturing in China with Stan's approval, would Rhodes owners buy
>>>
>>the
>>
>>>Chinese made products?
>>>
>>>Stan would have to provide the original patterns and specifications,
>>>
>>but
>>
>>>that is all Stan would have to do.  Brad believes he can set up a
>>>reliable manufacturing operation in China that will produce any of
>>>
>>these
>>
>>>products to Stan's satisfaction at a lower cost than Stan can get
them
>>>produced in the US.
>>>
>>>5 of us indicated an interest in Boom Rooms.  Me, Chris, Dave, Bruce,
>>>and maybe Bob.  (Did I miss anyone?)  I would be willing to be the
>>>guinea pig on this. How do the rest of you feel?  Bob, if we could
>>>
>>bring
>>
>>>the price down, at what price would you be a player?
>>>
>>>What about people who want Pop Top Enclosures, or Battened IMF sails,
>>>
>>or
>>
>>>cockpit fill in cushions?  Is there a price for these items that
would
>>>prompt you to take money out of your pocket and put it on the table?
>>>
>>>Look at Stan's options prices on his web site
>>>(http://www.rhodes22.com/super_options.html).  Is there something you
>>>would actually buy if the price were lower?  If so, what would the
>>>
>>price
>>
>>>have to be?
>>>
>>>Brad is returning to the US shortly, and doesn't have much time to
see
>>>if he can set up something like this.  If you think this is a
terrible
>>>idea, please speak up quickly so we all know where we stand.
>>>
>>>I think this is an interesting idea if Brad can actually do it.  It
is
>>>something we can all do to put more money in Stan's pocket right
away,
>>>while buying parts for our boats at a lower cost.  It's a
win-win...if
>>>Brad can pull it off.
>>>
>>>Please note.  Brad is a commercial airline pilot who no longer owns a
>>>Rhodes 22.  There is nothing in this deal for him.  He will always
>>>
>>make
>>
>>>more money flying an airplane than getting involved in a crazy
>>>
>>sailboat
>>
>>>spare parts Chinese manufacturing scheme.  He just happens to be in
>>>China right now, saw Stan's Lament, and asked if there was anything
he
>>>could do to help.
>>>
>>>Bill Effros
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
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>>
>>
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